US executions on hold due to lethal injection drug shortage
164 replies, posted
[QUOTE=GodKing;25100190]Okay, so strap them into a table with a mechanized shotgun device attached, in a small, self-cleaning room where they cannot be seen, push a button to fire the gun off, then another button to open the floor and dump the corpse into an incinerator for cremation. It could all be computerized so no one need do anything except press a button to activate it and walk away. No corpse, no mess due to self-cleaning room.
Yeeeah.[/QUOTE]
You just described a process which is way more complicated and expensive than a lethal injection.
You lose.
[QUOTE=A Dead Guy;25100243]You just described a process which is way more complicated and expensive than a lethal injection.
You lose.[/QUOTE]
Im pretty sure he's not being serious
[QUOTE=A Dead Guy;25100243]You just described a process which is way more complicated and expensive than a lethal injection.
You lose.[/QUOTE]
Well apparently we want to kill people but no one has the balls to do it so we have to design machines that free us from the guilt and horror.
[QUOTE=Melnek;25100267]Im pretty sure he's not being serious[/QUOTE]
I'm pretty sure i'm not serious either.
[QUOTE=GodKing;25100190]Okay, so strap them into a table with a mechanized shotgun device attached, in a small, self-cleaning room where they cannot be seen, push a button to fire the gun off, then another button to open the floor and dump the corpse into an incinerator for cremation. It could all be computerized so no one need do anything except press a button to activate it and walk away. No corpse, no mess due to self-cleaning room.
Yeeeah.[/QUOTE]
but then the person who pressed the button is the one who killed him, he has to bear that guilt
i would be an executioner if it paid well enough i have enough emotional unattachment to random civilians
[QUOTE=TheHydra;25100312]but then the person who pressed the button is the one who killed him, he has to bear that guilt[/QUOTE]
Not really.
When the process is mechanized and the actual killing isn't done by you, it makes it a lot easier for the executioner to just forget about it.
One of the reasons the nazis switched over to killing by gassing was that the members of the shooting squads started to turn mad. Once they switched over to gassing, however, it felt just like more work to do.
[QUOTE=TheHydra;25100312]but then the person who pressed the button is the one who killed him, he has to bear that guilt[/QUOTE]
Then they need to harden the fuck up, mate.
I would like to die from a firing squad if anything.
[QUOTE=GodKing;25100379]Then they need to harden the fuck up, mate.[/QUOTE]
edgy 13 year old here. come back when you're out of your "fuk humanity!!!!" phase and rejoin us
[editline]08:33PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=A Dead Guy;25100374]Not really.
When the process is mechanized and the actual killing isn't done by you, it makes it a lot easier for the executioner to just forget about it.
One of the reasons the nazis switched over to killing using gassing was that the members of the shooting squads started to turn mad. Once they switched over to gassing, however, it felt just like more work to do.[/QUOTE]
do we really want to have citizens that feel like killing people is "just more work to do"?
[QUOTE=TheHydra;25100400]edgy 13 year old here. come back when you're out of your "fuk humanity!!!!" phase and rejoin us[/QUOTE]
Uh, okay. I guess you couldn't tell I'm just fucking around because the internet is a serious place.
[editline]09:35PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=TheHydra;25100400]edgy 13 year old here. come back when you're out of your "fuk humanity!!!!" phase and rejoin us
[editline]08:33PM[/editline]
do we really want to have citizens that feel like killing people is "just more work to do"?[/QUOTE]
No, we also don't want citizens who hire people to kill their family members so they can collect insurance.
Or rapists.
Or serial killers. Or murderers at all.
[QUOTE=TheHydra;25100400]
do we really want to have citizens that feel like killing people is "just more work to do"?[/QUOTE]
Oh hey there, thanks for ignoring all of my previous arguments and only focusing your attention on a singular example given in one of my posts which will eventually force me to detail all of my previous arguments AGAIN.
Really helpful.
[QUOTE=A Dead Guy;25100489]Oh hey there, thanks for ignoring all of my previous arguments and only focusing your attention on a singular example given in one of my posts which will eventually force me to detail all of my previous arguments AGAIN.
Really helpful.[/QUOTE]
you're right on one account: that the rate of insanity went down after it was machine operated. but here's my point: most nazi workers genuinely believed that their victims weren't human. no matter what a criminal does, he is still human and should be treated and viewed as such. otherwise we're just acting on revenge, wasting time and money for no real reason other than satisfaction.
I'm sorry but if I'm sentenced to lethal injection, I'm killing myself.
Be that hanging myself with my shoe laces or attempting to escape.
And since they don't get the joy of watching me slowly die strapped to a gurney, I technically win.
[QUOTE=TheHydra;25100564]you're right on one account: that the rate of insanity went down after it was machine operated. but here's my point: most nazi workers genuinely believed that their victims weren't human. no matter what a criminal does, he is still human and should be treated and viewed as such. otherwise we're just acting on revenge, wasting time and money for no real reason other than satisfaction.[/QUOTE]
Oh, save it please. When you take it upon yourself to permanently revoke the rights of another human being by violating them, killing them, or having them killed, you better be prepared for dire consequences.
To be honest if I were to be executed, I'd rather be under the guillotine.
Quick lopping off of my head, done. Cheap, effective, relatively painless.
[QUOTE=Extroll;25100570]I'm sorry but if I'm sentenced to lethal injection, I'm killing myself.
Be that hanging myself with my shoe laces or attempting to escape.
And since they don't get the joy of watching me slowly die strapped to a gurney, I technically win.[/QUOTE]
Not really. You're still dead, but now you've saved them the costs and effort.
[editline]09:43PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=Itachi_Crow;25100595]To be honest if I were to be executed, I'd rather be under the guillotine.
Quick lopping off of my head, done. Cheap, effective, relatively painless.[/QUOTE]
And badass.
[QUOTE=TheHydra;25100564]you're right on one account: that the rate of insanity went down after it was machine operated. but here's my point: most nazi workers genuinely believed that their victims weren't human. no matter what a criminal does, he is still human and should be treated and viewed as such. otherwise we're just acting on revenge, wasting time and money for no real reason other than satisfaction.[/QUOTE]
Well, how is jail different then?
It serves no purpose other then revenge and wasting even more time and money for no real reason other than satisfaction.
If your goal is to jail murderers in order to keep them off the street-guess what, the death sentence does exactly the same.
Both of these punishments "violate" basic human rights. You complain about one but not the other.
[QUOTE=GodKing;25100586]Oh, save it please. When you take it upon yourself to permanently revoke the rights of another human being by violating them, killing them, or having them killed, you better be prepared for dire consequences.[/QUOTE]
but what is accomplished? we've killed a person, and now we're out millions of dollars. i'm not here to argue whether the death penalty is right or wrong, i'm here to argue that it's a waste of time and money that doesn't accomplish anything.
[editline]08:45PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=A Dead Guy;25100620]Well, how is jail different then?
It serves no purpose other then revenge and wasting even more time and money for no real reason other than satisfaction.
If your goal is to jail murderers in order to keep them off the street-guess what, the death sentence does exactly the same.
Both of these punishments "violate" basic human rights. You complain about one but not the other.[/QUOTE]
except jailing murderers keeps them off the streets for less of a cost than the death penalty so
[QUOTE=TheHydra;25100635]but what is accomplished? we've killed a person, and now we're out millions of dollars. i'm not here to argue whether the death penalty is right or wrong, i'm here to argue that it's a waste of time and money that doesn't accomplish anything.[/QUOTE]
It still costs money to keep them in prison. If all we're concerned about is cost and time, why bother doing anything to them?
[QUOTE=A Dead Guy;25100620]Well, how is jail different then?
It serves no purpose other then revenge and wasting even more time and money for no real reason other than satisfaction.
If your goal is to jail murderers in order to keep them off the street-guess what, the death sentence does exactly the same.
Both of these punishments "violate" basic human rights. You complain about one but not the other.[/QUOTE]
Jails should be rehabilitative, not punitive. Punitive justice clearly doesn't work, with our current recidivism rates.
[editline]09:47PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=GodKing;25100661]It still costs money to keep them in prison. If all we're concerned about is cost and time, why bother doing anything to them?[/QUOTE]
Because the point is you still need to do something, everyone agrees on this. You're arguing an absurd straw man.
[QUOTE=TheHydra;25100635]
except jailing murderers keeps them off the streets for less of a cost than the death penalty so[/QUOTE]
Pfffttt hahahahaha
What?
Are basically telling me that keeping someone in jail for a long period of time, all the while paying for all of his needs such as food, water, even entertainment costs less then one needle injection?
Ha.
Work crews are the best idea, have them work on highways and stuff.
If they do good and keep their noses clean, they get a little off their sentences. It would encourage them to not go crazy and stab their fellow prisoners.
It would also cut down on costs a bit; they do work for free, their sentences get reduced sufficiently, and they also pay for themselves.
Of course, some do go crazy regardless.
There's also another problem: if they do the work and get released, what will stop them from committing another crime?
There's the answer of a much longer sentence, maybe an extra 5-10 years if they murdered someone like they did before.
But some people just don't care about the sentence length, and that's the problem.
[QUOTE=A Dead Guy;25100699]Pfffttt hahahahaha
What?
Are basically telling me that keeping someone in jail for a long period of time, all the while paying for all of his needs such as food, water, even entertainment costs less then one needle injection?
Ha.[/QUOTE]
The the appeals process that it takes to get them to that 'one needle injection'. (Which is actually an IV insertion and then multiple needle injections into the IV flow.)
Nice work arguing against a massive straw man, though.
[QUOTE=Kagrenak;25100678]Jails should be rehabilitative, not punitive. Punitive justice clearly doesn't work, with our current recidivism rates.[/QUOTE]
Then why put murderers and rapists for longer periods of time, even life sometimes, in jail? Why not just keep them there until they are fully "recovered"?
We're talking about whether or not people on death row deserve to suffer...
...come on...
[QUOTE=Cheshire_cat;25100722]Work crews are the best idea, have them work on highways and stuff.
If they do good and keep their noses clean, they get a little off their sentences. It would encourage them to not go crazy and stab their fellow prisoners.
It would also cut down on costs a bit; they do work for free, their sentences get reduced sufficiently, and they also pay for themselves.
Of course, some do go crazy regardless.
There's also another problem: if they do the work and get released, what will stop them from committing another crime?
There's the answer of a much longer sentence, maybe an extra 5-10 years if they murdered someone like they did before.
But some people just don't care about the sentence length, and that's the problem.[/QUOTE]
You need to actually have real rehabilitative prisons. Treat every prisoner who killed/raped/assaulted in a premeditated fashion as a mentally ill person. Have them overseen by criminal psychologists and other experts in the field of rehabilitation, using the best available techniques supported by scientific evidence in order to be able to fix them and reintegrate them into society in a safe manner.
This means they need to be able to work for a proper wage, and be able to have some means of securing a place to go on the outside, as well as requisite documents before they leave, such as an ID or driver's license. Without these, the chance of recidivism for even comparatively minor offenses (theft, robbery) goes vastly upwards.
[editline]09:53PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=A Dead Guy;25100739]Then why put murderers and rapists for longer periods of time, even life sometimes, in jail? Why not just keep them there until they are fully "recovered"?[/QUOTE]
The point I'm making is that you don't need to.
[QUOTE=A Dead Guy;25100699]Pfffttt hahahahaha
What?
Are basically telling me that keeping someone in jail for a long period of time, all the while paying for all of his needs such as food, water, even entertainment costs less then one needle injection?
Ha.[/QUOTE]
even when someone is sentenced to death, the appeals process takes years, and the one sentenced to die is in prison for a long time leading up to it. it's basically prison + additional costs for the red tape of the execution.
[editline]08:57PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=Kagrenak;25100737]The the appeals process that it takes to get them to that 'one needle injection'. (Which is actually an IV insertion and then multiple needle injections into the IV flow.)
Nice work arguing against a massive straw man, though.[/QUOTE]
please point out where a straw man has been used
wait are you saying i'm using a straw man or he is because that is a terribly worded post
[QUOTE=Sottalytober;25098031]I'm pretty sure some lethal injections (on accident) simply paralyze the subject, and they feel all the pain, but can't scream.[/QUOTE]
And you're sure of this due to your extensive medical knowledge?
[QUOTE=TheHydra;25100882]even when someone is sentenced to death, the appeals process takes years, and the one sentenced to die is in prison for a long time leading up to it. it's basically prison + additional costs for the red tape of the execution.
[editline]08:57PM[/editline]
please point out where a straw man has been used
wait are you saying i'm using a straw man or he is because that is a terribly worded post[/QUOTE]
He was. A straw man is an argument that the opposing side did not put forth, no one he was arguing with ever said that the actual lethal injection costs less than imprisonment. He was arguing against his own construction, not any true argument.
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