• Canada: Harper Government Collapses; Election due early May
    286 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Zeke129;28823885]I'm voting liberal solely because I know it will be a conservative minority but I want to minimize the minority as much as possible It's not the ideal decision, but rather a tactical one[/QUOTE] Kind of like in America when you agree more with a third party but don't vote for them because if you do the side you most don't agree with gets more power? To basically reinforce the one that will be the only real challenger to the Conservatives?
Zeke, what are your conservatives like in Canada? Just wondering because the "Conservative Party" in the UK isn't nearly as bad as actual US conservatives.
[QUOTE=Turnips5;28824189]Zeke, what are your conservatives like in Canada? Just wondering because the "Conservative Party" in the UK isn't nearly as bad as actual US conservatives.[/QUOTE] They aren't hard line conservatives since the Canadian public wouldn't stand for that but they've been trying to inch the country more and more right for years. They figure if they do it gradually enough nobody will notice that they wake up one morning in Republican-run America
[QUOTE=Zeke129;28824276]They aren't hard line conservatives since the Canadian public wouldn't stand for that but they've been trying to inch the country more and more right for years. They figure if they do it gradually enough nobody will notice that they wake up one morning in Republican-run America[/QUOTE] I see. Probably somewhat similar to what we have here, although that sounds maybe a bit worse, dunno. The conservative party was pretty crazy in the 80s and stuff (Margaret Thatcher suggesting gay men should be quarantined to contain the spread of HIV, anyone?) but they've mellowed out a little since then. At least, I hope so. I'm sure there are hidden bigots in our government.
I swear to God if the conservatives win I'll have to strike Canada off of my "countries I can flee too" list.
Fuck Harper. That's all I can say. Conservatives as well.... I always feel like they're a Republican party in the wrong country than anything else. I also love how their publicity campaign here in Quebec is all about "The other parties suck ass and all wants bad things for the country. Vote Conservatives because they care!"
Ahh, Harper. The best PM oil money can buy.
[QUOTE=Turnips5;28824390]I see. Probably somewhat similar to what we have here, although that sounds maybe a bit worse, dunno. The conservative party was pretty crazy in the 80s and stuff (Margaret Thatcher suggesting gay men should be quarantined to contain the spread of HIV, anyone?) but they've mellowed out a little since then. At least, I hope so. I'm sure there are hidden bigots in our government.[/QUOTE] Let's look at some Harper quotes: [url=http://www.tranquileye.com/stockwell/index.html]Source[/url] [quote]We also support the exploration of alternative ways to deliver health care. Moving toward alternatives, including those provided by the private sector, is a natural development of our health care system.[/quote] [quote]The time has come to recognize that the U.S. will continue to exercise unprecedented power in a world where international rules are still unreliable and where security and advancing of the free democratic order still depend significantly on the possession and use of military might.[/quote] [quote]For taxpayers, however, it’s a rip-off. And it has nothing to do with gender. Both men and women taxpayers will pay additional money to both men and women in the civil service. That’s why the federal government should scrap its ridiculous pay equity law.[/quote] [quote]The establishment came down with a constitutional package which they put to a national referendum. The package included distinct society status for Quebec and some other changes, including some that would just horrify you, putting universal Medicare in our constitution, and feminist rights, and a whole bunch of other things.[/quote]
[QUOTE=Zeke129;28824276]They aren't hard line conservatives since the Canadian public wouldn't stand for that but they've been trying to inch the country more and more right for years. They figure if they do it gradually enough nobody will notice that they wake up one morning in Republican-run America[/QUOTE] True. I'm just glad that the last time he tried to do ridiculous shit all the other parties told him to fuck off. So happy he's finally out, hopefully for good.
Harper is like Herpes, he never really goes away It's why they share so many letters
I did a happy dance when I heard this news.
You guys seem so adamant that conservatives will lose, but in every poll I've seen so far they have at least a 5% or so lead...
[QUOTE=Aman V;28833080]You guys seem so adamant that conservatives will lose, but in every poll I've seen so far they have at least a 5% or so lead...[/QUOTE] If they get a minority government I'll be more happy than not. Don't pretend they have enough to get more than that really.
[QUOTE=Aman V;28833080]You guys seem so adamant that conservatives will lose, but in every poll I've seen so far they have at least a 5% or so lead...[/QUOTE] You should know that the Conservatives have been running attack ads and campaigning ever since they got into parliament and have still only been able to lose support, very impressive on their part. The other parties haven't even started campaigning yet.
[QUOTE=Aman V;28833080]You guys seem so adamant that conservatives will lose, but in every poll I've seen so far they have at least a 5% or so lead...[/QUOTE] Where in this topic has anyone been adamant that the Conservatives will lose?
Let's look at some Stockwell Day quotes now: [quote]I want to know how many women in Alberta are physically battered and not just insulted by their husbands... If we talk insulted by their husbands, then I'm afraid that I'm guilty from time to time of abusing my wife.[/quote] [quote]I would expect the support of the party no matter what happens... even if I were to kill my grandmother with an axe.[/quote] [quote]Homosexuality is a mental disorder that can be cured through counselling.[/quote] [quote]Women who become pregnant through rape or incest should not qualify for government-funded abortions unless their pregnancy is life-threatening.[/quote] [quote]As a Christian, I acknowledge the lordship of Jesus Christ over the whole universe ... I believe that the Bible is the infallible word of God and every word in it, cover to cover, is true.[/quote] [quote]God's law is clear: standards of education are not set by government, but by God, the Bible, the home and the school.[/quote] [b]Are conservatives really the people you want running our country[/b]
Oh here we go, I expected this would finally hit Facepunch, and when it did, it would be full of idiots with short memories and no idea what they're talking about. Good thing I was right, I had no idea what I was going to do if I was wrong. So here we go, off to rip people a new political asshole. But first, a short explanation of where Canadian politics is at: The Conservative party was found guilty of "Contempt of Parliament", and this has prompted an election. We'll come back to this later. Anyway, the Conservatives are (technically) our farthest right party, though this by no means puts them anywhere near American style politics. As far as the US is concerned, even the Conservatives would be too far left for their tastes. They are socially and economically a center-right party. We have NDP (New Democratic Party) as a far left party. Much closer to socialism than communism, despite what you might hear. We have the Bloc Quebecois, which is a regional party representing only Quebec. They basically fuck things up and cock block government until Quebec gets its way. Though intelligent, the rest of Canada is crippled by the existence of this party. And I saved the Liberals for last. This is because it is very difficult to classify them. They represent themselves as a left-wing party but act like a right-wing one sometimes... their actions are hard to read. On the one hand, they will privatize elements of government and deregulate markets, and then on the other they will raise taxes and have implemented some very progressive social policies (like multiculturalism and bilingualism). [QUOTE=hypern;28803609]Well then the question should be why is Harper still trusted as a politican when the oppistion are cliaming that he has made mistakes. Also how are the liberals going to appeal to more of the public if they are planning to bring down the Conservatives?[/QUOTE] So this is where the "Contempt of Parliament" charge comes in. The Conservative government is the first government to be found guilty of this charge. But what exactly happened there? The 3 opposition parties (Liberals, NDP, and Bloc) said the the Conservatives were not providing documents related to the cost of the Tough on Crime bill and the purchase of some F-22 Raptor fighter jets. The speaker of the House of Commons (who is a Liberal) said the Conservatives had to supply this information or be found in contempt of parliament. So the Conservatives went to the committee responsible for analyzing the Tough on Crime bill and gave them approximately 1000 sheets of information and brought in senior officials who would have been involved in the implementation. Despite this, the committee (dominated by opposition members) found them guilty of contempt. So, while the Conservatives were drafting their budget, the 3 opposition parties stated they would bring the government down, regardless of what was in the budget. It's pretty clear that the NDP was the only party that even looked at the budget, as the other two brought up the contempt charge in the House as soon as possible. The Conservatives, having only a minority government, watched as all 3 parties voted for the Contempt of Parliament charge in the House of Commons and beat them. tl;dr The opposition parties voted for the contempt charge and the Conservatives had no way to fight it. This is a drastic change compared to the last government threatened with Contempt of Parliament. The Liberals under Jean Chretien were accused of contempt by the opposition and it went to a vote in the house. The Liberals had a majority in the House however and voted the contempt charge down, allowing the government to continue despite a lack of confidence from the other parties. This is why "Contempt of Parliament" doesn't mean anything, and why what one politician says about another is pretty useless information. [QUOTE=Zeke129;28810433]Iggy needs to run one hell of a campaign but I think he can use the fact that the "fiscal conservatives" people voted for to save them money secretly spent their money to his advantage. As much as the liberals take a hard line on attack ads, they need to use them this time.[/QUOTE] You're joking right? The Liberals are famous for having the most ridiculous ads of all. Remember when they said the Conservatives were going to buy an aircraft carrier in an attack ad? What a blatant lie. [QUOTE=Zeke129;28824276]They aren't hard line conservatives since the Canadian public wouldn't stand for that but they've been trying to inch the country more and more right for years. They figure if they do it gradually enough nobody will notice that they wake up one morning in Republican-run America[/QUOTE] Zeke, you're usually a pretty bright kid, which is why I am surprised to see a statement like this. The Liberals have privatized more businesses, paid more tax dollars in corporate welfare, and deregulated more of our markets than any other government EVER. If any party were to bring us closer to a Republican-run America, it would be them. Remember, it was the Conservatives who allowed Wind Mobile to enter our country and compete against Bell, Rogers, and Telus to give all Canadians a chance at cell phone prices that don't suck. The Conservatives then, just earlier this year, once again told the CRTC to eat shit and made them drop the metered-internet movement. You will never see the other parties have the balls to make a move like that. Hell, 10 years ago when DSL was really hitting the markets here, we were running an ISP out of our house. The CRTC deregulated the prices and allowed Bell to charge whatever they wanted, and the Liberal government of the time did nothing, despite the complaints. Market share for independant ISPs went from 25% to 5% in less than 5 years. The Liberals have shown time and again they work for their own interest or the interests of big business, like selling off Petrocanada (to Liberal friends and family no less), which was the only way we had to control gas prices in Canada. Oh, and remember when the NDP and Liberals supported us adding a charge to any device that can store over 1gb of data? Hard drives, dvds, cameras, memory cards, even video game consoles all would have had a charge put on them that would be paid directly to the MPAA and RIAA. Thankfully, the Conservatives struck that idea down too. They have served in the interest of the people (for the most part anyway...) and for this I am thankful. So in closing, I'd like to say this: Liberals are corrupt dirty liars. NDP has bankrupted 2 provinces and vows to keep on spending. The Bloc isn't even a real party. The Conservatives? Some questionable support (subsidies for oil companies in Canada? Yeah because they totally need more money) but they have kept their noses pretty clean this whole time. Better than anyone else at least. I think I'll stick to the Conservatives for now.
Flak, they're called the Conservative Party, not the Progressive Conservatives. The progressive Conservative party died in 2003.
[QUOTE=FlakAttack;28843582] The 3 opposition parties (Liberals, NDP, and Bloc) said the the PCs were not providing documents related to the cost of the Tough on Crime bill and the purchase of some F-22 Raptor fighter jets.[/QUOTE] F-22s awesome On top of our overpriced F-35 buy we'll also get some more overpriced jets that the US government has refused to export but has magically allowed us to buy for no reason at all
[QUOTE=Habsburg;28843752]Flak, they're called the Conservative Party, not the Progressive Conservatives. The progressive Conservative party died in 2003.[/QUOTE] I still call them the PCs to make it easier but yeah, you're right, that's a bad habit. Fixing it.
The way Harper puts things is actually really scary. He said something along the lines of, "We need to start [b]phase 2[/b] of our economic action plan." *shivers*
[QUOTE=FlakAttack;28843582] Zeke, you're usually a pretty bright kid, which is why I am surprised to see a statement like this. [/QUOTE] How are Harper-and-friends' social views on gay marriage, abortion, and healthcare anything but republican-esque? The conservatives may be a good party economically but if they want to privatize my healthcare and ban me from getting married they can fuck right off. I'll take a bunch of moronic goofballs in government over a bunch of bible-bashing bigots anyday. Also, the conservative's "tough on crime" legislation is a fucking travesty and a disgrace to Canada. Vote these idiots out. What we need is Chrétien running the liberal party again
Conservatives made the country economically better, yes. Though I don't think the conservatives made any good moves in Quebec since they've been in power... In fact, we're drowning in taxes!
Harper voted yes for HST in Ontario, I wouldn't say he made Canada economically better it's just that he didn't [i]totally[/i] undo the strong foundation that was already built into our economy so we weathered the storm a bit better than America
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9H7JR8tnSQ[/media] old news but wow Jim Flaherty is such a greasy shit
[QUOTE=Triumph Forks;28848580][media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9H7JR8tnSQ[/media] old news but wow Jim Flaherty is such a greasy shit[/QUOTE] Did he answer ANY of the questions he was asked without beating around the bush
I'm voting Liberal. Why? Because the MP from my area does a really good job of representing us, I've had enough Conservative for a few years now, and the NDP like to make things go into debt and solve that by raising the HST. "Sup Nova Scotia, We promise all these amazing things and the best part, without raising taxes!" "Neat, we'll vote for you" "Whoops, looks like we underestimated the price of all the nice things. So, we'll only give you half and raise your sales tax by 2%" Classic NDP.
Flakattack puts what my feeble mind thinks into nice coherent intelligent sentences.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;28847973]What we need is Chrétien running the liberal party again[/QUOTE] Oh dear god no. The man invented the fucking "Red Book" full of promises, and didn't keep a single one. He set Canada-Quebec relations back a good 20 years at least, raised taxes, ignored anti-competition complaints from multiple industries (causing the destruction of many independant businesses), sold Petro-Canada (the thing we had that could have allowed us to control these ridiculous gas prices), paid billions into corporate welfare (especially Bombardier, but also other Liberal-friendly companies. Especially notable is the money poured into newspaper, which anyone with a brain knows is dying due to market forces applied by new technology), turned a $2 million dollar gun registry into a $2 BILLION dollar gun registry, allowed the state of Canadian immigration to become what it is today... and let's not forget, there is still almost 180 MILLION dollars missing from the Sponsorship Scandal. We'll never see that money again, thanks to Chretien and his buddies. The Conservatives have abandoned the abortion and gay-marriage debates. They publicly stated this and said they would not revisit them in the future. If they do, you can have even my promise that I will no longer support them, as those two issues were the last things stopping me from voting for them. Wouldn't leave me with any real alternative at that point... guess I could just draw a dick on my ballot or something... but nonetheless that is my promise. Long story short: Chretien was a right-wing pathological liar who had enough charisma to be able to steal from us, get caught red-handed, and talk his way out of it. Doesn't help that much of the Liberal party is just like him (though I am not at all bothered by their recent lack of real leadership. Frankly, it's working in Canada's favour).
You people just don't understand. Harper [b]is[/b] the government. [img]http://www.thehammer.ca/content/2006/0120/stephen_harper_prime_minister.jpg[/img]
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