Mass-murderer Anders Behring Breivik threatens to hunger-strike himself to death due to stricter pri
359 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Levelog;48794285]What are they doing to assist him with rehabilitation though? (Genuine question, I don't know and would like to.) If they're just letting him sit in solitary for however many years and them letting him out, how is that rehabilitation at all?[/QUOTE]
Thats the money question. Is he actually being put into solitary for months at a time?
[QUOTE=Levelog;48794285]What are they doing to assist him with rehabilitation though? (Genuine question, I don't know and would like to.) If they're just letting him sit in solitary for however many years and them letting him out, how is that rehabilitation at all?[/QUOTE]
It isn't and to be honest he is not someone who could ever be rehabilitated.
I was just highlighting the fact that prison services maintain this and that it is bollocks.
[QUOTE=karlosfandango;48794300]he is not someone who could ever be rehabilitated.[/QUOTE]
[citation needed]
[QUOTE=paul simon;48794316][citation needed][/QUOTE]
What mass murderers do you know of that have been fixed?
[QUOTE=agentfazexx;48794327]What mass murderers do you know of that have been fixed?[/QUOTE]
Since when has the US even tried it to find out?
[QUOTE=agentfazexx;48794327]What mass murderers do you know of that have been fixed?[/QUOTE]
Do you know for certain that none have?
I'm not the one making claims here.
[QUOTE=agentfazexx;48794327]What mass murderers do you know of that have been fixed?[/QUOTE]
Define "fixed"
[QUOTE=Headhumpy;48794289]He was sentenced to a form of preventive detention that can be extended indefinitely if he is deemed to still be a threat to society.
In any case, by what metric do you determine what kind of punishment someone gets?[/QUOTE]
the purpose of a punishment based justice system is to prevent serious crimes from happening in the first place. the severity of a punishment is [I]supposed[/I] to be determined by the damage the crime causes to society. you attach a life destroying sentence to the most heinous of crimes and those crimes in theory are meant to be rare compared to others. considering the fact that this guy ended 70 lives and severely impacted hundreds of others, as well as contributing to poor race relations and a perceived race war, by any meaningful standard that crime would be befitting of either life in prison or a death sentence.
Norway doesn't have this kind of legal system though, and it doesn't really have any reason to. at the same time, it should be a cause for concern that people in norway who might want to commit these sorts of crimes have now seen that breivik is living so comfortably in prison that the poor graphics of PS2 games are among his top complaints.
[QUOTE=paul simon;48794316][citation needed][/QUOTE]
I was under the understanding that opinion was allowed here.
but I will reword it instead to make it easier for you to digest.
he is not someone who would ever be rehabilitated
[QUOTE=karlosfandango;48794358]I was under the understanding that opinion was allowed here.
but I will reword it instead to make it easier for you to digest.
he is not someone who would ever be rehabilitated[/QUOTE]
It's doesn't come off as an opinion when you state it as a fact.
If you want to present it as an opinion, you could write "I think" in front of your sentence.
[QUOTE=Levelog;48794339]Since when has the US even tried it to find out?[/QUOTE]
We generally try not too when they openly kill shitloads of people, because no one wants to find out in case they start murdering again...
[quote]hunger-strike himself to death[/quote]
Please do it.
[QUOTE=agentfazexx;48794061]Who gives a fuck. How can anyone sympathize with this sick piece of shit?[/QUOTE]
It's about upholding standards and not letting hate cloud your judgment. You can't just give one person a certain treatment and then not give it to another because you think what he did was way worse. What he did is irrelevant to how he's treated in prison and treating him badly doesn't serve any purpose whatsoever, except to satisfy your sick desire to torture someone to get revenge.
We can't afford to have double standards, else they'll be abused.
[QUOTE=paul simon;48794369]It's doesn't come off as an opinion when you state it as a fact.
If you want to present it as an opinion, you could write "I think" in front of your sentence.[/QUOTE]
Are you a Penis Architect or do you think you are?
I seriously wonder if this guy is the second coming of Hitler.
[QUOTE=agentfazexx;48794276]No it doesn't, IIRC, Norway's max sentence is 20 years. He'll be a threat again once he gets out. If he killed [B]70 people[/B] he needs [I]at least[/I] life without parole. Not 20 years. Bank robbers in the US get 20 years. His sentence is a bullshit slap in the face for those affected.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=agentfazexx;48794244]No it isn't. Punishment should fit the crime.[/QUOTE]
Norway has a maximum sentence that can be [I]renewed[/I] if the prisoner is still deemed a threat to society. Clearly, Breivik will always be considered such, and thus he definitely will spend the rest of his life in prison.
Beyond that, it seems that the conflict here is about your perception of what prison is or should be. You believe it is a place to make bad people suffer for doing bad things, but that is not why prisons exist. Prisons are not about punishment, they are about safety and necessity, and (when possible) rehabilitation. They are about removing threats to society until they are no longer threats, not satisfying the public lust for vengeance.
[QUOTE=karlosfandango;48794446]Are you a Penis Architect or do you think you are?[/QUOTE]
- The one and only.
I don't see how this is relevant, however.
[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;48794459]You believe it is a place to make bad people suffer for doing bad things, but that is not why prisons exist.[/QUOTE]
Stealing is bad, murder is bad. Unregretably killing 70 people for ideology is something else.
This guy is striking so they upgrade his PS2 to a PS4. As far as i care, they should upgrade his brains out of his head with a 50 cal.
[QUOTE=Bruhmis;48794357]the purpose of a punishment based justice system is to prevent serious crimes from happening in the first place. the severity of a punishment is [I]supposed[/I] to be determined by the damage the crime causes to society. you attach a life destroying sentence to the most heinous of crimes and those crimes in theory are meant to be rare compared to others. considering the fact that this guy ended 70 lives and severely impacted hundreds of others, as well as contributing to poor race relations and a perceived race war, by any meaningful standard that crime would be befitting of either life in prison or a death sentence.
Norway doesn't have this kind of legal system though, and it doesn't really have any reason to. at the same time, it should be a cause for concern that people in norway who might want to commit these sorts of crimes have now seen that breivik is living so comfortably in prison that the poor graphics of PS2 games are among his top complaints.[/QUOTE]
It's worth noting that the US's punitive prison system is a massive failure in every measurable capacity. We have the highest prison population in the world, the highest rates of recidivism, the highest rates of prison assaults and violence in the Western world, among the highest costs of upkeep, and there is no data to support that harsh punishments have actually had any notable impact on crime rates. We have more people going into prison, staying in prison for longer periods of time, and coming out and immediately committing crimes that land them back in prison again then any other country in the world.
American prisons are a failure. It's high time that America reconsider its approach towards the prison system. I think we could all take a page out of Norway's book, considering it has one of the most (if not THE most) successful approach to prisons on the planet. They are safe, secure, humane, comfortable, focused on education and mental health, and generally shown to have a highly effective rehabilitative program.
[QUOTE=MatheusMCardoso;48794486]Stealing is bad, murder is bad. Unregretably killing 70 people for ideology is something else.
This guy is striking so they upgrade his PS2 to a PS4. As far as i care, [B]they should upgrade his brains out of his head with a 50 cal[/B].[/QUOTE]
But how would that make us any better than him? And what's the point? Maybe we should look at what caused him to do this, so we can try to prevent this from happening in the future?
"Studying and corresponding is not humanly possible under such circumstances, and this applies to anyone who is isolated under such conditions,"
It's not only so they upgrade his PS2 to his PS4 so please don't abuse that kind of information for your hate.
[QUOTE=MatheusMCardoso;48794486]This guy is striking so they upgrade his PS2 to a PS4. As far as i care, they should upgrade his brains out of his head with a 50 cal.[/QUOTE]
Congratulations, you won the annual Edge award!
Oh, careful with how you hold it, it's quite pointy.
[QUOTE=paul simon;48794479]- The one and only.
[/QUOTE]
[citation needed]
[QUOTE=MatheusMCardoso;48794486]Stealing is bad, murder is bad. Unregretably killing 70 people for ideology is something else.
This guy is striking so they upgrade his PS2 to a PS4. As far as i care, they should upgrade his brains out of his head with a 50 cal.[/QUOTE]
I'm not disagreeing that the guy did something monstrous and unforgiveable, but the severity of the crime does not have any bearing on this beyond the amount of time he is still going to be considered an active threat. At the end of the day, he still has the same rights as any other prisoner. The justice system doesn't exist to let you vicariously enjoy your little revenge fantasies.
[QUOTE=karlosfandango;48794300]It isn't and to be honest he is not someone who could ever be rehabilitated.[/QUOTE]
Wow where's your award winning psychology paper on this subject, Doctor?
Its amazing how people are so vengeful they ignore how every bit of data has shown time and time again that punitive justice is a complete failure in every aspect.
[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;48794526]The justice system doesn't exist to let you vicariously enjoy your little revenge fantasies.[/QUOTE]
Because there's justice for what he did. :downs:
[QUOTE=Bruhmis;48794357]the purpose of a punishment based justice system is to prevent serious crimes from happening in the first place. the severity of a punishment is [I]supposed[/I] to be determined by the damage the crime causes to society. you attach a life destroying sentence to the most heinous of crimes and those crimes in theory are meant to be rare compared to others. considering the fact that this guy ended 70 lives and severely impacted hundreds of others, as well as contributing to poor race relations and a perceived race war, by any meaningful standard that crime would be befitting of either life in prison or a death sentence.
Norway doesn't have this kind of legal system though, and it doesn't really have any reason to. at the same time, it should be a cause for concern that people in norway who might want to commit these sorts of crimes have now seen that breivik is living so comfortably in prison that the poor graphics of PS2 games are among his top complaints.[/QUOTE]
Would the threat of a life or death sentence really deter someone as hell-bent on exacting their own twisted form of justice as Breivik, though? More generally, does a severe punishment deter a severe crime? Does increasing the severity of a punishment reduce the incidence of a particular crime? There is good evidence that the severity of a punishment does not significantly affect recidivism rates, nor does it affect crime rates in general, whereas certainty of punishment does. However, the literature is still in disagreement on this, so I will not make any judgements, but these are important questions to think about.
[QUOTE=Explosions;48794543]Wow where's your award winning psychology paper on this subject, Doctor?[/QUOTE]
lol, the priggish hats are off.
[highlight](User was banned for this post ("Shitposting, trolling" - Big Dumb American))[/highlight]
[QUOTE=MatheusMCardoso;48794548]Because there's justice for what he did. :downs:[/QUOTE]
"Justice" is not killing somebody who has wronged you. You're thinking of "vengeance."
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