Mass-murderer Anders Behring Breivik threatens to hunger-strike himself to death due to stricter pri
359 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Kyle902;48798730]Its generally held in the western world that torture is a barbaric practice, as evidenced by the fact the the western world doesn't (publicly) torture criminals anymore.
Also what the fuck? Are you trying to say we should bring back shit like being drawn and quartered?
The fuck is this the 1800s?
[editline]30th September 2015[/editline]
You're kinda late there... We're all the way up to the DSM-V[/QUOTE]
I am aware that torture is frown upon in the western world but I still support it in the most extreme cases. So to answer your question, yes, in the most extreme cases, we should bring back some classic forms of punishment.
[QUOTE=SwedishSpy;48798745]It's retarded in your opinion. I think it's perfectly normal to use torture against the most extreme and gruesome criminals. And what is so wrong with not thinking of murderers as human? [/quote]
Hoyl fuck what???
[quote]
And yes, once again, I have a functional moral compass and I can interact with society just like any other person. It's just political opinions that say nothing about my personality.[/QUOTE]
No you REALLY fucking don't if you think torturing criminals and classifying them as subhumans is a remotely acceptable view. Its also not just a political opinion so stop spouting that garbage about "its an opinion lol". Its a rather good indicator of what kind of person you are when you advocate the dehumanization and torture of ANY human being, regardless of past acts.
Do you not realize that by advocating torture you not only stoop to their level, in a lot of cases you end up justifying their viewpoint.
I didn't think such a shitstorm would arise over my opinions.
edit:
Damn automerge.
[QUOTE=SwedishSpy;48798770]I am aware that torture is frown upon in the western world but I still support it in the most extreme cases. So to answer your question, yes, in the most extreme cases, we should bring back some classic forms of punishment.[/QUOTE]
What fucking purpose would that serve?
Like what exactly would torture accomplish? Answer that question if you even can
[QUOTE=SwedishSpy;48798770]I am aware that torture is frown upon in the western world but I still support it in the most extreme cases. So to answer your question, yes, in the most extreme cases, we should bring back some classic forms of punishment.[/QUOTE]
You still haven't responded to my two posts:
[QUOTE=Headhumpy;48797614]You don't need to have empathy for someone, but you must respect the fact that they are a human being with hopes and aspirations, however warped they are to you. Your definition of "horrific things" can be easily twisted by a state to include things like "being a Jew" (Nazi Germany), "being an Armenian" (Ottoman empire), "adultery" (Saudi Arabia), or "being gay" (Iran). We cannot allow ourselves to define what kind of crimes are deserving of death, because such a definition is necessarily arbitrary.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Headhumpy;48798585]Ignoring the fact that you cannot ever, [i]ever[/i] guarantee that no one will ever slip through the cracks and be wrongfully executed, you still haven't explained why it's necessary to torture and kill people.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=SwedishSpy;48798783]I didn't think such a shitstorm would arise over my opinions.
edit:
Damn automerge.[/QUOTE]
Because you have such a abhorrent opinion that I'm flabbergasted that you yourself haven't tried killing someone.
[QUOTE=Kyle902;48798780]Hoyl fuck what???
No you REALLY fucking don't if you think torturing criminals and classifying them as subhumans is a remotely acceptable view. Its also not just a political opinion so stop spouting that garbage about "its an opinion lol". Its a rather good indicator of what kind of person you are when you advocate the dehumanization and torture of ANY human being, regardless of past acts.
Do you not realize that by advocating torture you not only stoop to their level, in a lot of cases you end up justifying their viewpoint.[/QUOTE]
Since you're so smart and can make accurate assumptions about people based on their opinions, describe me as a person in PM since it might be a bit off topic. I will be completely honest if you're correct.
[editline]1st October 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=Headhumpy;48798791]You still haven't responded to my two posts:[/QUOTE]
It's necessary to torture and execute the most extreme criminals to show that society will not accept such acts and to show what will happen once they're caught.
And sure, I accept that murderers and whatnot are humans with hopes and aspirations but they still deserve the death penalty if they commit such horrid crimes.
[editline]1st October 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=Kyle902;48798796]Because you have such a abhorrent opinion that I'm flabbergasted that you yourself haven't tried killing someone.[/QUOTE]
That's because I have a working moral compass and know the difference between good and bad. But yes, it's easy to make assumptions based on opinions without even knowing me in person.
[QUOTE=SwedishSpy;48798806]Since you're so smart and can make accurate assumptions about people based on their opinions, describe me as a person in PM since it might be a bit off topic. I will be completely honest if you're correct.
[editline]1st October 2015[/editline]
It's necessary to torture and execute the most extreme criminals to show that society will not accept such acts and to show what will happen once they're caught.
And sure, I accept that murderers and whatnot are humans with hopes and aspirations but they still deserve the death penalty if they commit such horrid crimes.[/QUOTE]
I don't accept those things are normal and I don't need the death penalty to know they're wrong.
There you go. You're wrong.
Nothing you've said has justified your views. You're just repeating yourself.
[editline]30th September 2015[/editline]
You don't even answer the questions asked of you. I've asked you several. You ignore them all.
No I'll describe it right here, although I guarantee that my perception of you will not fit your self image because you have some pretty skewed beliefs.
You're most likely middle class. Raised in somewhat sheltered environment with people that regularly expressed strong political views. Most likely you incorporated some of those beliefs as your own. You have a strong sense of social justice (In other words you believe that people have some sort of right to seek revenge on those you deem subhuman) You honestly have a very poor sense of empathy although I doubt you yourself understand or believe that. You think that you look at things from an objective, logical standpoint.
etc etc
[editline]30th September 2015[/editline]
It also seems like you think you carry the opinion of the majority, although that might just be the wording of your posts.
[QUOTE=SwedishSpy;48798770]I am aware that torture is frown upon in the western world but I still support it in the most extreme cases.[/QUOTE]
Congratulations, you're almost as bad as the criminally insane, if not more so.
You are not even supporting torture to save lives, like beating information to avert some bomber perhaps.
Or maybe you do support the idea of that too now that I mention it, but you still see necessity in torturring captured criminals to death to deter crime, which there is no scientific evidence of, which would also be kind of hard to study.
Also, I'm still fairly positive you don't truly mean what you're saying here, in this thread. Because you're young, and/or foolish.
[QUOTE=Dark RaveN;48798720].....so you do call names.[/QUOTE]
How poor is your reading comprehension?
Because, if you read what I said, you'd realize I never said "I'm not calling you any names".
I justified WHY i'm calling him names, mainly because he fits a definition of that "name".
God damn, try harder next time.
[QUOTE=SwedishSpy;48798806]Since you're so smart and can make accurate assumptions about people based on their opinions, describe me as a person in PM since it might be a bit off topic. I will be completely honest if you're correct.
[editline]1st October 2015[/editline]
It's necessary to torture and execute the most extreme criminals to show that society will not accept such acts and to show what will happen once they're caught.
And sure, I accept that murderers and whatnot are humans with hopes and aspirations but they still deserve the death penalty if they commit such horrid crimes.[/QUOTE]
A prison sentence suffices. Why must we resort to cruel and unusual punishment?
You still haven't explained [i]why[/i] they deserve to die. You keep asserting that certain criminals deserve death, but you didn't define clearly which criminals deserve death, you didn't explain how you arrived at that definition, and you didn't explain why of all punishments, death (and even torture) should be the punishment meted out.
[QUOTE=Kyle902;48798853]No I'll describe it right here, although I guarantee that my perception of you will not fit your self image because you have some pretty skewed beliefs.
You're most likely middle class. Raised in somewhat sheltered environment with people that regularly expressed strong political views. Most likely you incorporated some of those beliefs as your own. You have a strong sense of social justice (In other words you believe that people have some sort of right to seek revenge on those you deem subhuman) You honestly have a very poor sense of empathy although I doubt you yourself understand or believe that. You think that you look at things from an objective, logical standpoint.
etc etc
[editline]30th September 2015[/editline]
It also seems like you think you carry the opinion of the majority, although that might just be the wording of your posts.[/QUOTE]
The only correct thing is the middle class part and the belief that people have have the rights to get justice (or revenge as you call it) are correct. Everything else is wrong.
I don't think I carry the opinion of the majority. Might be the wording, as you said.
[QUOTE=SwedishSpy;48798924]The only correct thing is the middle class part and the belief that people have have the rights to get justice (or revenge as you call it) are correct. Everything else is wrong.
I don't think I carry the opinion of the majority. Might be the wording, as you said.[/QUOTE]
Well the only things I have to go off are the shit you posted.
The shit that genuinely makes you come off as someone who gets off to the idea of criminals being tortured.
[QUOTE=Headhumpy;48798913]A prison sentence suffices. Why must we resort to cruel and unusual punishment?
You still haven't explained [i]why[/i] they deserve to die. You keep asserting that certain criminals deserve death, but you didn't define clearly which criminals deserve death, you didn't explain how you arrived at that definition, and you didn't explain why of all punishments, death (and even torture) should be the punishment meted out.[/QUOTE]
Because they have taken the life of another human being and should therefore not be allowed to exist with everyone else.
[QUOTE=SwedishSpy;48798943]Because they have taken the life of another human being and should therefore not be allowed to exist with everyone else.[/QUOTE]
Thats already accomplished by throwing them in jail. What the hell does torture and execution solve other then sating your lust for revenge?
[QUOTE=SwedishSpy;48798943]Because they have taken the life of another human being and should therefore not be allowed to exist with everyone else.[/QUOTE]
Why? How does that benefit us? How does that stop people from killing other people? How does this affect society, and societies value of life?
Nothing in reality supports your view or else we'd still live in a medieval justice system because it'd be obvious it works better. It's obvious it fails to achieve even the most basic of goals you want it to meet.
[QUOTE=SwedishSpy;48798943]Because they have taken the life of another human being and should therefore not be allowed to exist with everyone else.[/QUOTE]
That's a massive leap in logic that I cannot, in my mind, bridge. Please help me bridge it so I can understand how you think.
[QUOTE=Bat-shit;48798864]Congratulations, you're almost as bad as the criminally insane, if not more so.
You are not even supporting torture to save lives, like beating information to avert some bomber perhaps.
Or maybe you do support the idea of that too now that I mention it, but you still see necessity in torturring captured criminals to death to deter crime, which there is no scientific evidence of, which would also be kind of hard to study.
Also, I'm still fairly positive you don't truly mean what you're saying here, in this thread. Because you're young, and/or foolish.[/QUOTE]
I am young but not as young as you think (I'm assuming you think I'm a kid or something). And sure, feel free to think of me as foolish.
[QUOTE=SwedishSpy;48798955]I am young but not as young as you think (I'm assuming you think I'm a kid or something). And sure, feel free to think of me as foolish.[/QUOTE]
You continue to dance around the question of what exactly torture and execution accomplishes so I'm going to go right out and ask you this.
Do you enjoy the thought of people getting tortured?
[QUOTE=Kyle902;48798937]Well the only things I have to go off are the shit you posted.
The shit that genuinely makes you come off as someone who gets off to the idea of criminals being tortured.[/QUOTE]
Those are the problems with making assumptions about people without knowing them on a personal level.
[QUOTE=SwedishSpy;48798970]Those are the problems with making assumptions about people without knowing them on a personal level.[/QUOTE]
But that's not something you have a problem with committing yourself, at all though? As you have done so repeatedly through this thread, and as you would gleefully do to criminals you define as subhuman without knowing them at all.
How hypocritical are you?
[QUOTE=SwedishSpy;48798970]Those are the problems with making assumptions about people without knowing them on a personal level.[/QUOTE]
And here you go dodging the goddamned question again.
If thats not it then by the life of us tell us what the fuck you think it accomplishes?
Stop dodging the damned question because doing so gives us the impression that the answer is that you simply enjoy the thought of it.
I mean you're getting personally offended and upset that we're calling you insane. How do you think a person who's subhuman in your mind would feel when you call for their deaths?
See, if you don't think about that, you don't have empathy.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;48798986]I mean you're getting personally offended and upset that we're calling you insane. How do you think a person who's subhuman in your mind would feel when you call for their deaths?
See, if you don't think about that, you don't have empathy.[/QUOTE]
I don't think he actually understands what empathy is.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;48798977]But that's not something you have a problem with committing yourself, at all though? As you have done so repeatedly through this thread, and as you would gleefully do to criminals you define as subhuman without knowing them at all.
How hypocritical are you?[/QUOTE]
So I need to know a murderer on a personal level in order to make the conclusion that his ability to murder people makes him subhuman?
[QUOTE=SwedishSpy;48798955]I am young but not as young as you think (I'm assuming you think I'm a kid or something). And sure, feel free to think of me as foolish.[/QUOTE]
I'm assuming you're a teenager.
[editline]1st October 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=SwedishSpy;48798943]Because they have taken the life of another human being and should therefore not be allowed to exist with everyone else.[/QUOTE]
This is fine, but.. where does the torture come in now? Just because why not?
[QUOTE=SwedishSpy;48798996]So I need to know a murderer on a personal level in order to make the conclusion that his ability to murder people makes him subhuman?[/QUOTE]
Okay, so you DON'T understand what empathy is then if that's your reply to my statement
[QUOTE=SwedishSpy;48798996]So I need to know a murderer on a personal level in order to make the conclusion that his ability to murder people makes him subhuman?[/QUOTE]
Yet again you dodge the question that everyone is asking you
[B]What, precisely, do you think that torture and execution actually accomplishes[/B].
You'd make a damned fine politician with all this redirection you're trying to do.
[QUOTE=SwedishSpy;48798996]So I need to know a murderer on a personal level in order to make the conclusion that his ability to murder people makes him subhuman?[/QUOTE]
So, we are all subhuman, because we all have the ability to murder. We do, everyone does.
Your logic is escaping you, sorry.
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