• Obama will restrict grenade launchers and other military equipment from local police
    95 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;47754121]I would support a federal bill that would standardize all police departments. All the same cars. All the same gear. All the same guns. All the same rules. All the same internal investigative services. All with body cams. I've come to loathe how police act in most states, and after dealing with some really negative experiences, I've come to distrust most police as well.[/QUOTE] I don't really think they could be fully standardized in terms of gear, but I would definitely support standardizing training and conduct, then apply some NATO style overall guidelines for equipment and get departments to organize and communicate better, because right now working across county or state lines is a disaster. [editline]19th May 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=zerglingv2;47754172]See, you say that [IMG]http://endthelie.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Solano-sheriff-tank.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://denverandmore.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/tampa-police-tank.jpg[/IMG] Yeah, about that.[/QUOTE] So those would be those exactly two examples that Fish Muffin mentioned of police using those horrible M113 carriers. Two anecdotes do not a statistic make.
[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;47752601]Jesus christ, bayonets. I'm sorry the last time I checked police were here to Protect and Serve not die for the Emperor.[/QUOTE] [b][i]HERETIC[/b][/i]
[QUOTE=Code3Response;47754109]I'll leave at this: Civil forfeiture is the least of your concerns with your money. Unless you're slinging/buying/moving/growing dope, its not going to be taken. If this CF is a concern of yours, and you aren't involved with drugs, then you probably should stop drinking the koolaid and take off the foil.[/QUOTE] It's not a concern of mine because I'm not in the united states. I don't know why you're accusing me of wearing a tin foil hat or drinking kool-aid (I don't even know what that last one means). I just want to know about some of the shit that goes on around there and if it's true.
[QUOTE=J!NX;47752626]the idea that police could even get grenade launchers at all is terrifying[/QUOTE] They're mainly used to deploy CS Gas, Smoke, and rubber bullets/rounds. They don't use any type of explosive rounds.
[QUOTE=asteroidrules;47754215] So those would be those exactly two examples that Fish Muffin mentioned of police using those horrible M113 carriers. Two anecdotes do not a statistic make.[/QUOTE] Code3Response said no one had them, that is incorrect.
[QUOTE=Taggart;47752695]Since when did the Police use bayonets? Seems rather pointless to ban something they would literally never use anyway.[/QUOTE] They could still end up there somehow, start carrying dust, and in sum end up as huge waste of money. In my opinion it makes sense to close the distribution channel if there's no good reason for it to be there.
[QUOTE=dilzinyomouth;47753074]This is such a non-move, its an empty baseless gesture to address a problem that didnt exist. Take a look at that list for a minute. The only thing police have actually employed on that list are camouflage uniforms. Tracked vehicles aren't used, bayonets are never used, firearms of .50 caliber are never used, grenade launchers will be circumvented on technicality since explosives are never used, and weaponized aircraft has NEVER been used. People might clap like trained seals and praise obama, but hes essentially done sweet fuck all to change how police operate. They will still be doing raids with AR15s, plate carriers, flashbangs, tear gas and riding in armored vehicles, doing no knock raids, aggressive patrolling, etc etc the list goes on and on. Absolutely nothing.[/QUOTE] and how would you know? a couple years ago i've seen heavy armor police vehicle's that participated in a raid on one of my neighbors. last year i saw a tank quality armor vehicle respond to a deadly car crash on one of the main roads i was near and honestly that was a situation that a vehicle like that is not needed. It really felt weird being around a squad of cops with military grade equipment it honestly didn't even feel like normal law enforcement which is something that this bill takes care of.
[QUOTE=zerglingv2;47754320]Code3Response said no one had them, that is incorrect.[/QUOTE] He was incorrect, but almost no one uses them. Most use MRAPs, Bears, or hell even a few use old Cadillac Gages. Tracked vehicles are ineffective, especially the types fielded by the SMALL amount of PD's who use them, and in the situations they are used. It's better to use wheeled vehicles with better armor. Now, I do disagree with how some of these resources have been used, however it's good to have these for when they are needed.
[QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;47754252]It's not a concern of mine because I'm not in the united states. I don't know why you're accusing me of wearing a tin foil hat or drinking kool-aid (I don't even know what that last one means). I just want to know about some of the shit that goes on around there and if it's true.[/QUOTE] Not accusing you at all. The interstate highway system in the US is a goldmine for drug interdiction- which is where you hear about most-all of this seizure stuff. I35, I80, I90, I70, I5, among others on the east coast, that are commonly used to run drugs across the country with ease and little detection. CF is also common to originate at airports. So much so that there is a [URL="https://bales.org/"]website[/URL] dedicated to cops showing off their scores of drugs they find. I know of some airport police departments that are completely (90%+) funded on seized drug money. I know cities that confiscate a drug dealers new escalade and use it for undercover work (or sold at auction). Certainly there are places that abuse CF, but its extremely unlikely for a typical person to encounter. What Mr. Oliver did was completely blow up cherry picked instances and misguide people. Yes, your cash/ property will be taken if its suspected to be used in drug trafficking/use. No, your vehicle/cash isnt going to be taken from you over simple drug charges. There are minimums that have to be met before they can take your stuff. Most of the time its not worth taking either. Currently in the news is people bitching over a Mississippi police department's new building and regional training center ($4.1USD) which was paid for with drug money. This isnt money from their residents. This is money pulled off I20 (TX -> SC) from suspected drug traffickers- this isnt your 1g of marijuana rec user; this is keys of coke and crack I'm talking about. People think its outrageous because they think its from normal citizens; which is completely wrong. The koolaid reference is coined from a cult (brainwashed) and drank [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drinking_the_Kool-Aid"]cyanide laced koolaid[/URL] in a mass suicide. [editline]18th May 2015[/editline] That website is now known as Black Asphalt, but it was formerly known as Desert Snow. They do drug interdiction training. And its badass training.
[QUOTE=Starlight 456;47753182]I don't care if the police have Browning M2-Equipped Humvees and RPGs as long as only use them in a situation that would absolutely require them.[/QUOTE] 12.7 Rifles in some cases can be justified, but Cops should never be in a situation that need Rocket Launchers. If it ever comes to the point where that is needed then it's very clear the State National Guard needs to get involved.
[QUOTE=zerglingv2;47754172]See, you say that [IMG]http://endthelie.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Solano-sheriff-tank.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v218/baumgar/ArpaioHowitzer.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://denverandmore.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/tampa-police-tank.jpg[/IMG] Yeah, about that.[/QUOTE] Two exceptions and a showpiece. [editline]18th May 2015[/editline] What exactly is wrong with tracks?
besides that they destroy asphalt roads?
Yes, besides that [editline]18th May 2015[/editline] Because it's not like they're patrolling in them, or anything.
[QUOTE=Apache249;47754603]Yes, besides that [editline]18th May 2015[/editline] Because it's not like they're patrolling in them, or anything.[/QUOTE] Unneeded/waste of money
[QUOTE=zerglingv2;47754716]Unneeded/waste of money[/QUOTE] It's not a waste of money if it's surplus provided at low to no cost from the federal government.
[QUOTE=Starlight 456;47753182]Too many people focus on the equipment and not the tactics. I don't care if the police have Browning M2-Equipped Humvees and RPGs as long as only use them in a situation that would absolutely require them.[/QUOTE] Pretty much. Honestly I wouldn't really care that the cops ride an MRAP and tote a six shot 40mm grenade launcher if all they need to really ruin my day is a baton.
[QUOTE=ironman17;47752619]Only reason the police would need a tank would be if some crazy son-of-a-gun had constructed a heavily-armoured stompy mech and decided to go on a rampage.[/QUOTE] Or a killdozer [img]http://www.everydaynodaysoff.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/Killdozer.jpg[/img]
[QUOTE=ZestyLemons;47752690]I swear they were pneumatic actually, hence why I asked.[/QUOTE] It depends, there are teargas grenades with an explosive firing mechanism, but it's mainly used for really long range stuff, like real riots, not the "let's teargas a group of people huddled around a person we just injured" that america calls rioting.
[QUOTE=Sableye;47754146]Except the big city police departments are getting them, wasting tax payer dollars maintaining them, and then deploying their officers who are not trained on how to appropriately use them whenever something the national guard should be deployed for pops up. [/QUOTE] getting [B]what?[/B] Again, almost nothing on this list is actually used. tracked vehicles? I think maybe one or two PDs in the entire COUNTRY have an old M113 stored. MRAPs and disarmed APCs are not tracked vehicles, so despite their big bad scary look, THIS CHANGES NOTHING. Bayonets? Police don't fucking use them! they have no use for them! THIS CHANGES NOTHING "certain types of camoflage uniforms"? So SWAT teams go back to buying dark blue or black instead of surplus military uniforms. They still look like stormtroopers when they are kitted up. THIS CHANGES NOTHING Grenade launchers? Again, will be circumvented on technicality "crowd control devices" as there are no explosives used. Ever. They will still be using tear gas in riots, they will still be throwing flashbangs in peoples homes. THIS CHANGES NOTHING. Firearms of .50 caliber or larger? They don't use them. Can you say collateral damage? THIS CHANGES NOTHING. Weaponized aircraft? I mean for fucks sake, this is just taking the piss now. [B]THIS CHANGES NOTHING[/B]. The problem with policing in 2015 if you believe there is a problem, is a problem of procedure and tactics. Not equipment they have never used and have no use for.
[QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;47753629]hi im roflburger your local liberal [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUdHIatS36A[/media][/QUOTE] Using a very so-so comedian who's entire argument comes down to making jokes and poorly thought out points about ten second sound bites that are picked and chosen to best suit his point of view instead of posting your own arguments because you probably realize that the quality of yours would make his look rock-steady by comparison Actually, yeah, does sound like the typical local liberal, carry on, I guess : ^)
[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;47752601]Jesus christ, bayonets. I'm sorry the last time I checked police were here to Protect and Serve not die for the Emperor.[/QUOTE] Police weren't requesting bayonets. I looked it up after some other article bitched about it. Police departments were requesting surplus rifles chambered in 7.62 caliber. Probably for a DMR purpose or maybe because their officers need to dispatch animals or defend themselves from animals. Regardless, having one or two rifles in a department that shoot a full power rifle caliber, isn't really a bad idea. The military has a bunch of preserved M14 battle rifles. These are generally more than accurate enough for any police needs, but are fairly old in their design and hail from the vietnam era. They were issued, generally, with bayonets. The military stored the rifles with their associated equipment, like cleaning kits, straps, etc. So, when police departments requested these rifles, they got the entire kit that came with the rifle, including bayonets. Departments weren't requesting bayonets. Grenade launchers, as others have said, are used by police departments to disperse tear gas. No real reason not to give them 40mm grenade launchers. IF they order 40mm HE shells,[I] then[/I] it is time to send out the ATF to go shut down the local department. Tracked vehicles are often given to police departments because we have craptons of old M113 APC's and otherwise they'd just rot in the desert. Weaponized helicopters? I don't even know what the fuck that is about. I know of no instances of armed gunships operating within police departments.
[QUOTE=GunFox;47755155]Police weren't requesting bayonets. I looked it up after some other article bitched about it. Police departments were requesting surplus rifles chambered in 7.62 caliber. Probably for a DMR purpose or maybe because their officers need to dispatch animals or defend themselves from animals. Regardless, having one or two rifles in a department that shoot a full power rifle caliber, isn't really a bad idea. The military has a bunch of preserved M14 battle rifles. These are generally more than accurate enough for any police needs, but are fairly old in their design and hail from the vietnam era. They were issued, generally, with bayonets. The military stored the rifles with their associated equipment, like cleaning kits, straps, etc. So, when police departments requested these rifles, they got the entire kit that came with the rifle, including bayonets. Departments weren't requesting bayonets. Grenade launchers, as others have said, are used by police departments to disperse tear gas. No real reason not to give them 40mm grenade launchers. IF they order 40mm HE shells,[I] then[/I] it is time to send out the ATF to go shut down the local department. Tracked vehicles are often given to police departments because we have craptons of old M113 APC's and otherwise they'd just rot in the desert. Weaponized helicopters? I don't even know what the fuck that is about. I know of no instances of armed gunships operating within police departments.[/QUOTE] im not sure about weaponized helicopters either but i have seen these random black choppers with things on them flying about (i haven't seen them in like 3 years now but they were flying about a few years ago here)
[QUOTE=confinedUser;47755165]im not sure about weaponized helicopters either but i have seen these random black choppers with things on them flying about (i haven't seen them in like 3 years now but they were flying about a few years ago here)[/QUOTE] What makes you think they were police helicopters?
[QUOTE=GunFox;47755170]What makes you think they were police helicopters?[/QUOTE] well atleast from what of the equipment i've seen them get their hands on i wouldn't be surprised. It was more likely military exercises or something
[QUOTE=evilweazel;47755137]Using a very so-so comedian who's entire argument comes down to making jokes and poorly thought out points about ten second sound bites that are picked and chosen to best suit his point of view instead of posting your own arguments because you probably realize that the quality of yours would make his look rock-steady by comparison Actually, yeah, does sound like the typical local liberal, carry on, I guess : ^)[/QUOTE] John Oliver is usually able to make some pretty well researched and informed/ative arguments on these issues, but here he really botched the job and the whole segment was obviously rushed out to support the big media buzz topic of the time it was made.
Damn, I hoped that I would get to see US police do a bayonet charge to flush out some crack dealers. Do they still get flame throwers?
[QUOTE=Bonde;47755452]Damn, I hoped that I would get to see US police do a bayonet charge to flush out some crack dealers. Do they still get flame throwers?[/QUOTE] Pretty much anyone can buy a flame thrower. They aren't exactly restricted goods, especially not at the federal level.
[QUOTE=viperfan7;47754859]Or a killdozer [img]http://www.everydaynodaysoff.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/Killdozer.jpg[/img][/QUOTE] I was really disappointed that guy got stuck on a stupid basement. I wanted him to drive around a bit longer so that a national guard helicopter would have to come in and hit it with an anti-tank missile. Thinking about it.. there would've been way less property loss from that particular event if police had surplus javelin launchers! They'd also be useful for high speed chases!
I saw some photos the other day of a US police force and I thought they were a bit over equipped. The only thing that I thought was really weird though was the amount of camouflage stuff they were wearing. Perhaps its just me but I expect the police to be clearly identifiable as police (like in black clothing with the word police on it). I can almost see how people shoot them without knowing they are police.
[QUOTE=Jsm;47756047]I saw some photos the other day of a US police force and I thought they were a bit over equipped. The only thing that I thought was really weird though was the amount of camouflage stuff they were wearing. Perhaps its just me but I expect the police to be clearly identifiable as police (like in black clothing with the word police on it). I can almost see how people shoot them without knowing they are police.[/QUOTE] Whether they're wearing black or camouflage or whatever, they always have POLICE plastered all over them. Like this picture of the FBI HRT during the Boston Bomber manhunt [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/nyEHoLM.jpg[/IMG] Do these guys really give you any impression besides "we're the good guys. Don't shoot at us."? [editline]19th May 2015[/editline] And don't even try with "over equipped." These men were searching for a man who had already killed one police officer and injured 16 others in a gunfight, let alone wounding around 300 civilians and killing three.
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