• Terror attack kills 200+
    77 replies, posted
[QUOTE=TG2;50641184]Oh, I thought this was somewhere I am supposed to care about. What's the point of this thread? [highlight](User was banned for this post ("Shitpost" - Novangel))[/highlight][/QUOTE] You're the reason the rest of the world hates us Americans.
[QUOTE=Llamalord;50641768]The the flying fuck is going on in this thread you fucking xenophobes. This is literally the same death toll as Paris but instead of saying "Wow this is horrible" you're talking about how [del]immigrants[/del] victims of mass terrorism fleeing their countries are probably radicals too. Islam didn't create radical Islam, the West did with neo-colonialism. You guys have [b]zero[/b] compassion when the people who are getting killed aren't relatable to your ethnicity or culture like with Paris.[/QUOTE] Can we all make a community effort to stop making/praising these fake moral indignation posts? The ones where everyone puts on a good show of who can say "my condolences to the family.." the hardest on a gaming forum? Just because I'm more interested in talking about radical Islam than reading a list of 125 Arabic names and crying myself to sleep doesn't mean I have no compassion for the people involved. They died, it sucks. What else do you want me to say? This is the same response I'd have (and have had) if it were a domestic attack. Get over yourself and quit pretending you're the arbiter of morality on this website just because people want to talk about politics instead of laboriously mourning strangers on the internet. [editline]4th July 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=MrJazzy;50641896]What masses? we already have "masses" of muslims living in the west.[/QUOTE] That's true, but Muslims raised in a Western culture have a different worldview than those raised within the borders or reach of radical Islamic regimes, so I don't think it's quite comparable. Plus, you haven't really answered my question. What evidence is there that accepting Muslim refugees will weaken Islamic extremism in the world?
[QUOTE=SlalomRyan;50641940]Radical Islam hasn't become a problem because The West(TM) has created it, or because some people sat down one day and thought "Well, I sure would like to be a terrorist. Let's invent a reason". Radical Islam came into being because notable Islamic scholars read the Quran, interpreted the Quran, and shared that hard-line interpretation. Abu Bakr has a PHD in Islamic studies - he knows more about Islam than any middle class Euro/American 20-somethings on the internet could ever hope to.[/QUOTE] first off, any "doctarate" degree in any form of religion can easily be complete nonsense. take the christian PHD "Dr E Michael Jones," for example and gaze upon his [URL="http://www.realjewnews.com/?p=476"]website[/URL]. [QUOTE]If you don't want dangerous Islamic radicalism in your country, don't import people who do. It's that simple.[/QUOTE] unfortunately, it is not that simple. people who never even been to the middle east can get radicalized, usually from the internet (and what should we do, ban the internet? I think we can both agree that it is far more effective to filter people instead). [QUOTE]Hugs and flowers will not turn radicals into a peace-loving, contented people.[/QUOTE] perhaps when someone is radicalized, it is already too late. I see no proof of this but lets go with it anyways. I think a more effective solution to stopping terrorism is to halt it root causes to begin with. when you look at countries with terrorism problems, you see that not all are Islamic ( some "Christian" nations in africa, for example), but all have huge social and economic problems, often with a lack of free speech and limited education opportunities. No one is saying that we or anyone intended to create terrorism. Terrorism is the side effect of actions taken in the middle east, some of which is from the west itself.
[QUOTE=Llamalord;50641768]The the flying fuck is going on in this thread you fucking xenophobes. This is literally the same death toll as Paris but instead of saying "Wow this is horrible" you're talking about how [del]immigrants[/del] victims of mass terrorism fleeing their countries are probably radicals too. Islam didn't create radical Islam, the West did with neo-colonialism. You guys have [b]zero[/b] compassion when the people who are getting killed aren't relatable to your ethnicity or culture like with Paris.[/QUOTE] P.S. this is why nationalism is bad.
[QUOTE=SlalomRyan;50641940]ffs Yes, you got it, The West(TM) sat down one day and thought "well, gee, wouldn't it be fun to create our own greatest enemy" and thus radical Islam was born - another entry on the ever-growing list of Evil(TM) things that The West(TM) is responsible for. All the problems in the world are the fault of the mysterious hive-mind entity which is The West(TM), and brown people are not capable of doing bad things of their own accord. Radical Islam hasn't become a problem because The West(TM) has created it, or because some people sat down one day and thought "Well, I sure would like to be a terrorist. Let's invent a reason". Radical Islam came into being because notable Islamic scholars read the Quran, interpreted the Quran, and shared that hard-line interpretation. Abu Bakr has a PHD in Islamic studies - he knows more about Islam than any middle class Euro/American 20-somethings on the internet could ever hope to. Regardless of whether that is the correct interpretation of the Quran, that is what has happened. If you want to blame any one entity for giving these people a platform, blame the Saudis. Or Iran. If you don't want dangerous Islamic radicalism in your country, don't import people who do. It's that simple. Hugs and flowers will not turn radicals into a peace-loving, contented people.[/QUOTE] Let's start with a simple date. A year, so you can find out what it had to do with Iran - and the US and UK. So you can understand why the US is, in fact, directly responsible for radical Islam in Iran. 1953.
[QUOTE=srobins;50642073]That's true, but Muslims raised in a Western culture have a different worldview than those raised within the borders or reach of radical Islamic regimes, so I don't think it's quite comparable. Plus, you haven't really answered my question. What evidence is there that accepting Muslim refugees will weaken Islamic extremism in the world?[/QUOTE] By not discriminating against muslim refugees, you avoid legitimizing the anti-west views islamic extremists hold and their propaganda that violent islamic organizations use to recruit. So if you provide security and stability to those who do come looking for refuge, they have no reason to join the violence they're fleeing.
since isis is the us' fault, it should be up to the us to stop them, right? why aren't we all voting for someone who will just nuke the middle east and be done with it, then?
No matter who's fault ISIS is, the people fleeing them aren't coming to the US, they're coming to Turkey, Lebanon and yes to a very small degree, Europe, so we are the ones who are obliged to provide refuge.
[QUOTE=Pops;50643172]since isis is the us' fault, it should be up to the us to stop them, right? why aren't we all voting for someone who will just nuke the middle east and be done with it, then?[/QUOTE] Because nuking the entire middle east for the sake of a handful of terrorists is going to solve all the problems of the other poor bastards caught in the crossfire? You don't build regional peace over a smoking, radiation-ridden pile of ashes. It's that simple. If anything, this would all but ensure that no Muslim will ever extend a hand to, or trust Western nations ever again. Islamic terrorism/extremism is an extremely multifaceted problem that isn't going to disappear overnight. People find it attractive because it gives the angry, the disenfranchised, the poor, the vulnerable, and the dregs of society to all group together under a common cause to hit back against what they perceive as their oppressors and the culture of decadence that surrounds them (in their mindset.) Also, the problem with guerrilla warfare or the placement of improvised explosives is that in a world as big as ours, you simply cannot catch every determined individual who wishes to cause havoc either as a lone wolf, or if they happen to be affliated/claim affliation with a terrorist group or cause. But you should also understand that with the current measures of surveillance in place, you can stop many more attacks than those that get through. However, this does not mean that governments can strip away liberties in the name of security just because they might be able to prevent another attack. The biggest problem is that groups like IS are formed around an idea. You can't kill ideas, but you can try to teach people that violence and bloodshed is not the way. If people refuse to understand that, eliminate them by all means if they start attacking people. But what's the use of criminalizing a whole religion just because of the actions of a few? I understand people are afraid. I understand people just want to live their lives out in safety. But the minute we start shunning others just because of their faiths or where they come from, you're just adding to the festering pit of anger that drives people to resort to violence towards a society that they feel has no place for them.
[QUOTE=Tools;50641189]"Islamic State" has nothing to do with Islam anymore.[/QUOTE] What Islam is about is subjective.
[QUOTE=Kljunas;50643402][quote]"Islamic State" has nothing to do with Islam anymore.[/quote]What Islam is about is subjective.[/QUOTE] All religion is subjective but the guys statement is sorta true. The Quran forbids the killing of other Muslims. By targeting other Muslims, during Ramadan no less, they are proving they don't give a shit about their own religion. [editline]4th July 2016[/editline] Just noticed title changed to 200+ Unbelievable.
[QUOTE=Fourm Shark;50641175]Isnt this the most anti-islamic thing to do this month?[/QUOTE] IS is Sunni, so killing Shia people is okay according to them.
[QUOTE=Llamalord;50641768]The the flying fuck is going on in this thread you fucking xenophobes. This is literally the same death toll as Paris but instead of saying "Wow this is horrible" you're talking about how [del]immigrants[/del] victims of mass terrorism fleeing their countries are probably radicals too. Islam didn't create radical Islam, the West did with neo-colonialism. You guys have [b]zero[/b] compassion when the people who are getting killed aren't relatable to your ethnicity or culture like with Paris.[/QUOTE] Yeah, this is sort of very ironic. I mean, I do not care about Baghdad as well, but I do not care about Paris either. Other people, well, double standards, yadda yadda.
About ISIS bringing in terrorists as refugees. Of course it's happening. [QUOTE]ISIS brought 17 terrorist coordinators into Germany disguised as refugees, shows information collected by internal intelligence. Most of the group is either jailed or dead, said leader of intelligence, Hans-Georg Maassen to Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung at saturday. According to Maassen, intelligence has identified more than 320 attempts of terrorists trying to contact refugees in Germany, reporter by The Wall Street Journal. "Largest threat to Germany is islamic terror," said the head of intelligence. German police arrested three terror cell members in June, two of them living in a refugee center. They were planning to attack Dusseldorf. Messen added that two of those 17 coordinators died during Paris attacks.[/QUOTE] [url]http://majandus24.postimees.ee/3751633/saksa-luure-isis-toi-pagulastena-riiki-17-liidrit?_ga=1.166667706.564086848.1404375506[/url] Translated for you.
[QUOTE=baslan;50643688]About ISIS bringing in terrorists as refugees. Of course it's happening. [url]http://majandus24.postimees.ee/3751633/saksa-luure-isis-toi-pagulastena-riiki-17-liidrit?_ga=1.166667706.564086848.1404375506[/url] Translated for you.[/QUOTE] Dumbasses. Can't believe they tried that.
Wow, I just can't believe this thread. Such blind hatred and ignorance from the first few posts, and I'm just laughing so hard. Are you serious right now? [QUOTE]Oh, I thought this was somewhere I am supposed to care about. What's the point of this thread?[/QUOTE] [QUOTE]Doesn't this happen every day there? This didn't break any records or anything, right?[/QUOTE] [QUOTE]The [B]Shites and Sonnes[/B] are probably the [U]most disgusting groups in terms of senseless violence I have ever seen[/U]. [U]Fighting and killing for shit that supposedly happened thousands of years ago or something. [/U] Pointless hatred probably the result of inbreeding to be honest.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE]The west (and east) could effectively either [U]colonize or quarantine the entire muslim/arab world.[/U] If they're escaping to the west, why not bring the west to them instead?[/QUOTE] [QUOTE]I have plenty of compassion and empathy, but I use common sense more. [U]Makes sense to be wary of people coming from a place that indoctrinates you from birth and has a long history of violence.[/U][/QUOTE] My god. Maybe join us in the real world, folks?
The last quote makes sense, as the others are just batfuck insane while the last one has basis in reality. You know due to Islam's very very tolerant opinion of gays, Jews, and women and how loads of them love to export that sweet tolerance to countries like sweden Oh yeah, shit sucks hard for those 200 people and their families, people who do this shit need to be hung and make an example of. "You kill hundreds of people? You get fucking hung and flayed"
[QUOTE=BioWaster;50641564]ou gotta watch out here on ye old Facepunt. [B]You're not allowed to generalise people or else you're a bad guy.[/B][/QUOTE] This is true, tho? Were you trying to be sarcastic, and accidentally made a true statement, or am I just reading sarcasm into the post?
We need to continue to bomb ISIS into nice meaty chunks, easy for disposal too!
[QUOTE=Trebgarta;50644434]Welcome to Facepunch, enjoy your stay! I didnt know religions could have opinions.[/QUOTE] Well, they can have guidelines and edicts like Islam, you know all those nice and friendly quotes encouraging murder of non believers and to conquer the fucking world. Please, don't bring up Christianity to defend Islam as that's gotten boring how clockwork that is "Christianity hates gays and the bible says to kill them" buuuut, do you Christians regularly throwing gays off rooftops? I know the LRA exists, but their manpower is around 100ish members, I think. Might be better to leave the arguing out of this thread due to my sadness for the 200 dead and wounded, aight?
[QUOTE=Trebgarta;50644434] I didnt know religions could have opinions.[/QUOTE] Religion is just one big opinion.
[QUOTE=niiiiiiiiok;50644452]Well, they can have guidelines and edicts like Islam, you know all those nice and friendly quotes encouraging murder of non believers and to conquer the fucking world. Please, don't bring up Christianity to defend Islam as that's gotten boring how clockwork that is "Christianity hates gays and the bible says to kill them" buuuut, do you Christians regularly throwing gays off rooftops? I know the LRA exists, but their manpower is around 100ish members, I think.[/QUOTE] [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uganda_Anti-Homosexuality_Act,_2014[/url] [url]https://www.thenation.com/article/its-not-just-uganda-behind-christian-rights-onslaught-africa/[/url] [url]http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-35967725[/url] [url]http://www.globalequality.org/newsroom/latest-news/1-in-the-news/186-the-facts-on-lgbt-rights-in-russia[/url] [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_violence_against_LGBT_people_in_the_United_States#2000.E2.80.932009[/url] Keep in mind, I'm not arguing that a lot of Muslims in the Middle East do not approve of homosexuality, but to wave off Christians' disdain for it as well is rather silly.
[QUOTE=Omilinon;50644477][url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uganda_Anti-Homosexuality_Act,_2014[/url] [url]https://www.thenation.com/article/its-not-just-uganda-behind-christian-rights-onslaught-africa/[/url] [url]http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-35967725[/url] [url]http://www.globalequality.org/newsroom/latest-news/1-in-the-news/186-the-facts-on-lgbt-rights-in-russia[/url] [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_violence_against_LGBT_people_in_the_United_States#2000.E2.80.932009[/url][/QUOTE] Uganda's bill is a shitshow, and life in prison is shit but at least the death part of the amendment got "replaced" Also, comparing Islam's killing to USA hate crimes and violence against lgbt is a bit of a reach, Orlando massacre being on a completely different level Saw the edit, but disdain /=/ throwing lgbt off of fucking rooftops because they are affront to Muhammad or Allah, one of which was a fucking kiddiediddler and psychotic murderer [editline]4th July 2016[/editline] I think I can explain western apathy at this deathcount compared to Paris, as most Americans view of the middle east usually has ISIS and al-Qaeda and normal bombings, while Paris is not seen to be a war zone with 100+ deathcounts
[QUOTE=niiiiiiiiok;50644502]Uganda's bill is a shitshow, and life in prison is shit but at least the death part of the amendment got "replaced" Also, comparing Islam's killing to USA hate crimes and violence against lgbt is a bit of a reach, Orlando massacre being on a completely different level Saw the edit, but disdain /=/ throwing lgbt off of fucking rooftops because they are affront to Muhammad or Allah, one of which was a fucking kiddiediddler and psychotic murderer[/QUOTE] Yes, but do you see the disparity between LGBT murders in the West and in places of the Middle East and Africa? Do you know why Christians in Africa and Muslims in the Middle East are that much more radical than their counterparts in the western world? Their awful living conditions are a huge boon to radicalization, where even more "western" areas of Africa, such as South Africa, are still struggling with a ton of social issues. Sure, religion plays a part in it, but have you ever wondered why Muslims in the West are decidedly more progressive and "Westernized" than if they lived in the Middle East their entire lives?
[QUOTE=Omilinon;50644569]Yes, but do you see the disparity between LGBT murders in the West and in places of the Middle East and Africa? Do you know why Christians in Africa and Muslims in the Middle East are that much more radical than their counterparts in the western world? Their awful living conditions are a huge boon to radicalization, where even more "western" areas of Africa, such as South Africa, are still struggling with a ton of social issues. Sure, religion plays a part in it, but have you ever wondered why Muslims in the West are decidedly more progressive and "Westernized" than if they lived in the Middle East their entire lives?[/QUOTE] I don't wonder about that, as I know "bombs caused all of this bullshit etc" Islam is fundamentally flawed, and the Bombs only contribute some to the overall fuckball the the ME is.
[QUOTE=niiiiiiiiok;50644589]I don't wonder about that, as I know "bombs caused all of this bullshit etc" Islam is fundamentally flawed, and the Bombs only contribute some to the overall fuckball the the ME is.[/QUOTE] I know a Kosovar Albanian Muslim girl. She goes to my college and I've had loads of conversations with her. She drinks alcohol. She smokes loads of cigarettes. She barely speaks a word of Arabic other than the very basic shit she needs to know for her religion. And she's a European Muslim, born and raised. She is 100% compatible with the Western world in every way. I used to date her roommate, and other than her complaining that she has to take a shower after sex before she sleeps because it's haram not to, religion never came up. I've never seen her pray before. She doesn't wear a veil. And she's Muslim. Should we kick her out because Islam is a flawed religion and is inherently violent towards apostates and non believers? The Middle East is a shithole because it's impoverished and war torn, not because Islam is somehow inherently flawed. Christian areas in Africa are the exact same. Bombing contributes to poverty, poor education, and ruined infrastructure. The US funded this extremism during the Cold War to fight back against the expansion of communism in the first place. It is largely our responsibility that the Middle Eastern society decayed from a relatively high point. The CIA literally overthrew Mosaddegh in a coup after he tried to nationalize British colonial oil holdings in Iran. He was a progressive secular democrat who instituted unemployment benefits, sick pay, workplace injury payments, and ended forced labor of peasantry. He instituted rent control and was revered in Iran. The US overthrew a progressive liberal secular leader because he nationalized the foreign-held oil industry - the same situation as Cuba, essentially. We overthrew a progressive and put in religious fundamentalists. That was the start of the downfall of the Middle East. It is almost undeniably the US's fault.
I'm not absolving the USA and CIA of the crimes, but blaming it 100% like some people I have seen do it is fucking bananas. [editline]4th July 2016[/editline] Happy America day, guys :suicide::suicide: [editline]4th July 2016[/editline] Fuck the CIA shits
[QUOTE=Zonesylvania;50643257]Because nuking the entire middle east for the sake of a handful of terrorists is going to solve all the problems of the other poor bastards caught in the crossfire? You don't build regional peace over a smoking, radiation-ridden pile of ashes. It's that simple. If anything, this would all but ensure that no Muslim will ever extend a hand to, or trust Western nations ever again. Islamic terrorism/extremism is an extremely multifaceted problem that isn't going to disappear overnight. People find it attractive because it gives the angry, the disenfranchised, the poor, the vulnerable, and the dregs of society to all group together under a common cause to hit back against what they perceive as their oppressors and the culture of decadence that surrounds them (in their mindset.) Also, the problem with guerrilla warfare or the placement of improvised explosives is that in a world as big as ours, you simply cannot catch every determined individual who wishes to cause havoc either as a lone wolf, or if they happen to be affliated/claim affliation with a terrorist group or cause. But you should also understand that with the current measures of surveillance in place, you can stop many more attacks than those that get through. However, this does not mean that governments can strip away liberties in the name of security just because they might be able to prevent another attack. The biggest problem is that groups like IS are formed around an idea. You can't kill ideas, but you can try to teach people that violence and bloodshed is not the way. If people refuse to understand that, eliminate them by all means if they start attacking people. But what's the use of criminalizing a whole religion just because of the actions of a few? I understand people are afraid. I understand people just want to live their lives out in safety. But the minute we start shunning others just because of their faiths or where they come from, you're just adding to the festering pit of anger that drives people to resort to violence towards a society that they feel has no place for them.[/QUOTE] Dude, it wasn't a serious response, we would have to effectively nuke europe as well and parts of the us.
[QUOTE=.Isak.;50644642]I know a Kosovar Albanian Muslim girl. She goes to my college and I've had loads of conversations with her. She drinks alcohol. She smokes loads of cigarettes. She barely speaks a word of Arabic other than the very basic shit she needs to know for her religion. And she's a European Muslim, born and raised. She is 100% compatible with the Western world in every way. I used to date her roommate, and other than her complaining that she has to take a shower after sex before she sleeps because it's haram not to, religion never came up. I've never seen her pray before. She doesn't wear a veil. And she's Muslim. Should we kick her out because Islam is a flawed religion and is inherently violent towards apostates and non believers?.[/QUOTE] Oh, I never advocated for kicking out non violent westernized Muslims, my dude. She sounds a world away from any fundie Fuck in UAE or etc.
[QUOTE=niiiiiiiiok;50644643]I'm not absolving the USA and CIA of the crimes, but blaming it 100% like some people I have seen do it is fucking bananas. [editline]4th July 2016[/editline] Happy America day, guys :suicide::suicide:[/QUOTE] Sure, not 100%, but blaming Islam itself instead of fundamentalist extremist Islam is as short-sighted as what the US did to Mosaddegh. Essentially every Western-born Muslim is already compatible with Western society. People have never even recognized they're Muslim because they fit right in to Western culture. Many, many middle-easterners are the same. Plenty of progressives that have been forced to flee their homes because of war. Plenty of well-respected Muslim academics. Are they a majority in the population of the world? No - but neither are westerners. Blame extremism, not Islam. Islam has existed in forms far more peaceful than Christianity for long periods of history. The fucking Ottoman Empire decriminalized homosexuality in 1858 - meanwhile, places like the United States and Australia didn't decriminalize homosexuality and repeal sodomy laws until 120 years later. Canada had buggery laws punishable by death until 1869. Not the most fair comparison, but still - the Ottomans decriminalized homosexuality decades before the western world by any measure. It's not some Islamic problem - extremism like this simply didn't exist until maybe 50 years ago.
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