• Israel orders expansion of Jewish settlements in the west bank..
    39 replies, posted
[QUOTE=mac338;36232498]Just to clarify; Israel are building settlements and absorbing land in the west bank to they can have defensible borders in case of another attack by one or more of the many nations that have attacked them before. They are doing this because they had to remove all military presence in the West Bank as a result of the Oslo accord. Now, I do not agree with this. I do not agree with the settlements at all, personally I think if Israel has 1967 borders except with control of the Philadelphi corridor and the Jordan valley, alongside military presence in the Judaen mountains they can defend themselves just fine. Nonetheless, even if I think this breaks international law, and constitutes breaking the fourth Geneva convention §4 I still think a lot of Facepunchers are bandwagoning on the Israel hate with little understanding of the actual conflict, nor its details outside the most basic of basicness, and what modern developments such as the Gaza war.[/QUOTE] Security is just a facade to legitimatize their illegal land-grabbing. They just want more land. In fact, in the past they even compromised this so-called "security" just for the sake of [I]getting more land.[/I] From a report from the Israeli Human Rights group B'tselem: "[URL="http://www.btselem.org/publications/summaries/200512_under_the_guise_of_security"]The report shows that not only were [B]security-related reasons of secondary importance[/B] in certain locations, in cases when they conflicted with settlement expansion, [B]the planners opted for expansion, even at the expense of compromised security[/B]. This desire for settlement expansion led to an increase in the violation of Palestinians' human rights[/URL]"
[QUOTE=mac338;36232498] I still think a lot of Facepunchers are bandwagoning on the Israel hate with little understanding of the actual conflict, nor its details outside the most basic of basicness, and what modern developments such as the Gaza war.[/QUOTE] Criticising Israel for ignoring human rights, violating human rights and violating international law, =/= Israel Hate Bandwagon
[QUOTE=mac338;36232498]Just to clarify; Israel are building settlements and absorbing land in the west bank to they can have defensible borders in case of another attack by one or more of the many nations that have attacked them before. They are doing this because they had to remove all military presence in the West Bank as a result of the Oslo accord. Now, I do not agree with this. I do not agree with the settlements at all, personally I think if Israel has 1967 borders except with control of the Philadelphi corridor and the Jordan valley, alongside military presence in the Judaen mountains they can defend themselves just fine. Nonetheless, even if I think this breaks international law, and constitutes breaking the fourth Geneva convention §4 I still think a lot of Facepunchers are bandwagoning on the Israel hate with little understanding of the actual conflict, nor its details outside the most basic of basicness, and what modern developments such as the Gaza war.[/QUOTE] No the issue about the 1967 borders and them being defensible is a completely different one to the settlments. They're just doing the settlements for shits and giggles. thisispain can tell you exactly why they want to, but it's just as acceptable to say they're religious nutjobs doing whatever they want because they hold the political balance of power. I'm starting to think it's not a bad idea to make the West Bank a non-voting area. Kind of like how US citizens can vote for President wherever they are living, except in Puerto Rico.
[QUOTE=Starpluck;36232564]Security is just a facade to legitimatize their illegal land-grabbing. They just want more land. In fact, in the past they even compromised this so-called "security" just for the sake of [I]getting more land.[/I] From a report from the Israeli Human Rights group B'tselem: "[URL="http://www.btselem.org/publications/summaries/200512_under_the_guise_of_security"]The report shows that not only were [B]security-related reasons of secondary importance[/B] in certain locations, in cases when they conflicted with settlement expansion, [B]the planners opted for expansion, even at the expense of compromised security[/B]. This desire for settlement expansion led to an increase in the violation of Palestinians' human rights[/URL]"[/QUOTE] "Lebensraum im Osten" o, history :)
[QUOTE=mac338;36232498]They are doing this [B]because they had to remove all military presence in the West Bank[/B] as a result of the Oslo accord.[/QUOTE] lol And you're calling everyone else ignorant on the conflict. Speak for yourself. Israel mantains a military prescense in the West Bank and no they haven't fulfilled the Oslo accords either.
[QUOTE=Isuzu;36232357]Not to the people who weren't asked, subsequently stripped of all their property and kicked out lmao[/QUOTE] They were never kicked out. Many fled during the [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Arab–Israeli_War"]1948 war[/URL], but a good quarter of the population of Israel are still Palestinians who stayed. The UN never said the Palestineans had to leave, nor did most of the Jews. Trans-Jordan was divided into an Arab part and a Jewish part but they did not split into their parts properly until the war. The zionist movement started in the late 1800's where Jews would return to their holy land and buy the land there. Some Palestinians had to flee because they legally didn't own the land they were on. After WWII there were many Jewish refugees which, unlike all the other big religions at the time, had no country to flee too, so they joined the large Jewish settlement in Trans-Jordanian Palestine. Britain owned this area at the time, and Israel was the first independent nation to be on that location in quite some time. So the split we know today is not a result of the UN partition but rather of the Arab-Israeli war, and the land wasn't suddenly given to people who didn't live there from before but to a people who had been there for some time. The land wasn't taken, but given independence since Trans-Jordan was British before. And previously before that Ottoman. Many of Israel's actions are questionable, I'm not denying that. I am in protest of much of their current military actions that break the Geneva convention and human rights, but the Palestineans weren't exactly stripped of their property and kicked out. The closest you get is the exodus in '48 as a result of the Arab-Israeli war, but they got to return after the war was over. [editline]7th June 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Starpluck;36232605]lol And you're calling everyone else ignorant on the conflict. Speak for yourself. Israel mantains a military prescense in the West Bank and no they haven't fulfilled the Oslo accords either.[/QUOTE] You are right. My mistake, I apologize. There are many details I do not know, and debates as such are a great source for gaining a better understanding. I may be wrong about more, but that's okay because then I've learned for another time. I still think Facepunchers are bandwagoning, but perhaps if I get more viewpoints my mind can be changed on that.
It's about a tenth and in the anarchy, a huge amount were driven out by mobs. I've never really seen a point in discussing the origin of it though, same as I never cared for any of the retrospective guilt issues. Australian and American Aboriginals, post-WW2 Germany, it's a stupid argument.
[QUOTE=mac338;36232697]They were never kicked out. Many fled during the [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Arab–Israeli_War"]1948 war[/URL], but a good quarter of the population of Israel are still Palestinians who stayed. The UN never said the Palestineans had to leave, nor did most of the Jews. [/QUOTE] You know, "fleeing" isn't something you do voluntarily.
[QUOTE=Glorbo;36231961]There were settlements built on privately owned Palestinian land, who some members of parliament wanted to legalize, but it failed in parliament (mainly because Netanyahu himself said he will fire anyone in his government that votes for it). Then he ordered an expansion of other settlements. I think he realized that legalizing stuff that was built on private land would go way to far, so he rejected it, but in order to not lose support from his right wing voters, he legalized some more. Also, this isn't news[/QUOTE] Basically he is toying with Civilians who have already lost so much in order to win over some votes.
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