• Jogger who shot and killed his assailant gets off without charges
    261 replies, posted
[QUOTE=SgtCr4zyAlt;27505631]You don't fire a gun unless you plan to stop an assailant. That's negligent use of firearm because of the possibility of collateral damage.[/QUOTE] I am sorry, I don't live in the US thus don't have any idea of proper gun safety. I guess they also teach you not to fire into the sky? I am just curious, a member of my family is a commissioner, but I never knew that you weren't allowed to fire warning shots.
Protip: a bullet straight up still has to land. If you're going to shoot, you always shoot to kill.
Well, in an ideal world he would've just waved the gun at him a bit, maybe fired a warning shot, but in the heat of the moment I could understand shooting the guy. It's not the best way it could've gone down, but he shouldn't really be blamed.
[QUOTE=Maximo13;27508155]I am sorry, I don't live in the US thus don't have any idea of proper gun safety. I guess they also teach you not to fire into the sky? I am just curious, a member of my family is a commissioner, but I never knew that you weren't allowed to fire warning shots.[/QUOTE] You can't fire into the ground, either. Ricochet, man.
[QUOTE=Maximo13;27496357]I would've fired once to scare them shitless. No need to empty the whole pistol on someone.[/QUOTE] But warning shots are illegal, even for self defense [editline]18th January 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Pocoyo;27496730]He shot 8 times, he had the intent to kill not defend himself...[/QUOTE] A dead person can't come back from the dead to financially ruin you with a lawsuit, now can they?
Seems excessive to me but adrenaline would have been flowing so I can't speak to this guy's mindset at the time of the shooting.
[QUOTE=NoDachi;27496892]Sorry I miss-paraphrased. This is what I meant to say: More Americans were killed by guns in the 18 years between 1979 and 1997 than died in all of America’s foreign wars since its independence. At a rate of 30,000 a year. Giving it the highest murder rate in the developed world.[/QUOTE] I find that hard to believe that over a million Americans died in that 18 year period from guns, and at a Rate of 30,000 a Year that's still only 540,000 total, when more Americans died in the Civil War alone than that Also that's total deaths due to firearms use according to the FBI, with that figure even including even gun deaths at the hands of Law Enforcement and justified shootings, which fucks up the figures compared to other countries which only count gun deaths when they aren't legally justified
Personally i think self defense is one of the most important rights a person can have and that this man has done absolutely nothing wrong, While it's sad that the kids died, they shouldn't have been trying to mug someone
[QUOTE=Zeke129;27508718]Seems excessive to me but adrenaline would have been flowing so I can't speak to this guy's mindset at the time of the shooting.[/QUOTE] Well, there was 2 people, and he was just punched in the face, so one's aim isn't going to be up to notch, and considering he only managed to kill one of the assaulters before his magazine ran empty, we don't know how many he fired at each person and how many actually hit
I got punched in the face many times in my life. are you saying I could have killed all those people and gotten away with it? the wasted opportunities.
[QUOTE=NoDachi;27496776]It just makes a mockery of the whole 'Safety through Guns' argument.[/QUOTE] D.C. still has the highest gun murder rate of all US states and Territories Also their crime rate dropped something like 17% immediately following their gun ban being invalidated, even though they have still strict ass laws and regulation on their guns [editline]18th January 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=imasillypiggy;27508949]I got punched in the face many times in my life. are you saying I could have killed all those people and gotten away with it? the wasted opportunities.[/QUOTE] pretty much unless you provoked it or were drunk [editline]18th January 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=markg06;27497497]I find it strange he went for a late night jog and had a pistol in his pocket.[/QUOTE] I live in a good neighborhood and even I'm looking over my shoulder out of fear of getting mugged/attacked by a dog when I decide to take a walk in the park at night because I'm not armed.
Natural Selection in action.
[QUOTE=Pocoyo;27496730]He shot 8 times, he had the intent to kill not defend himself...[/QUOTE] When a shooter empties an entire magazine it's a display of fear, actually.
[QUOTE=Raneman;27509106]Natural Selection in action.[/QUOTE] Uninformed post in action
[QUOTE=z0nk3d;27497832]Whoa, whoa, whoa, "use of deadly force if you believe your life is in danger" ? Does that mean you can actually shoot to death absolutely anyone who gets close to you, as long as you believe he will cut you with a knife ? That's fucking retarded. Also, yeah, he emptied the whole gun on a kid. THE WHOLE MAGAZINE. What the hell, do they really sell guns to anyone without even checking if they can shoot without panicking and keep pressing the trigger ?[/QUOTE] First off, when outside of your home, most self defense laws in this Country require that you be assaulted before you can use deadly force, with assault being physical, or simply having a weapon brandished at you, secondly, in nearly every state that requires a CHL permit to carry a weapon on you (even in the liberal gun law states like Texas and Florida), requires you to take 6 hour course in gun instruction and requires you to take a written test on your knowledge of relevant gun and self defense laws in that state, and your knowledge of gun safety, and even then, they then require that you take a extensive background FBI check that takes 3 months to process, and so extensive that several States allow you to bypass their security checks at their government offices by simply showing a valid CHL license, and also exempts you from having to have a NCIS background check under Federal law when purchasing a weapon from a gunshop unless it is a Title 2 firearm [editline]18th January 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=^-^;27509212]When a shooter empties an entire magazine it's a display of fear, actually.[/QUOTE] Pretty much, also that isn't even that many rounds, considering most 9mm firearms tend to have magazines with default capacities in excess of 12 rounds [editline]18th January 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Sgt Doom;27498031]What the hell are you talking about? He was referring to murders of Americans within a certain timeframe being more than deaths of US citizens (including soldiers) in wars the US was involved in [b]since independence.[/b] That has got absolutely nothing to do with the time period between the fall of the Roman Empire and the late 1600s.[/QUOTE] Which is proven wrong by the facts as more people died in the 4 year long civil war than in that 18 year time period he cited [editline]18th January 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=redBadger;27497956]You're not factoring in Medieval times and the renaissance, plus all times before that, which makes your last statement invalid. Do you want me to tell you about Cortes and the American empires he murdered? :downs: [editline]18th January 2011[/editline] Wrong. The man had a gun license, which means he can legally purchase a weapon, so long as he shows his license to prove he can buy it legally. However, whether he was legally able to hold the weapon in public is a different story. The carrying license is separate from the purchasing license.[/QUOTE] Purchasing licenses are only found in Illinois and New England States, nowhere else are they found due to the fact they are more of a irrelevant hassle to law abiding citizens and waste of Tax dollars then a prevention of gun crime [editline]18th January 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=ThePuska;27499431]There are non-lethal ways to defend oneself these days and I wish they'd be preferred over guns especially if you can't stop yourself from firing uncontrollably in panic when you're attacked. Pepper spray would've saved this guy from the muggers just as well.[/QUOTE] Too bad pepper spray requires you to be in stabbing distance, and the fact it's incapable of disabling the threat, which means just as likely as it to stop them it's as likely to send him into a rage that will fuck you up even more And don't even start with that Taser bullshit, it's a single shot weapon and if one probe misses you are fucked [editline]18th January 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=paul simon;27499772]I'm pretty sure just pulling the gun, or firing a single scare shot would've been enough.[/QUOTE] Actually I have this article laying down somewhere from somewhere showing where these criminals chased down this man for 21 miles, and even after he stopped and drew a Mini-14 and it pointed at them, didn't stop their attempt to assault this person until he fired 2 full auto bursts of a total of 18 round of 5.56mm "fuck off" into one assaulters' chest back in the 1980s before production of full autos for the civilian market wasn't banned yet.
[QUOTE=NoDachi;27496750]Cool fact. More civilians have murdered each other in America with guns, than the entire casualty rate of all the wars America has been involved in since it's inception. Cooler EDIT: More Americans were killed by guns in the 18 years between 1979 and 1997 than died in all of America’s foreign wars since its independence.[/QUOTE] Ignoring the fact that those numbers are just wrong; How many of them were shot by police, or in defense of innocent lives? How many were suicides?
Excessive force. You don't kill someone, let alone a kid over a wallet. If you must, incapacitate them with your firearm. If you don't know how to do that, you shouldn't have a gun in the first place. I know I'm going to get dumbs, but i don't think mugging someone deserves death. That kids life was worth more than the 500 dollars he was carrying in his wallet.
[QUOTE=Broseph_;27509336]Actually I have this article laying down somewhere from somewhere showing where these criminals chased down this man for 21 miles, and even after he stopped and drew a Mini-14 and it pointed at them, didn't stop their attempt to assault this person until he fired 2 full auto bursts of a total of 18 round of 5.56mm "fuck off" into one assaulters' chest back in the 1980s before production of full autos for the civilian market wasn't banned yet.[/QUOTE] [url=http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BTT/is_168_28/ai_112685749/]Very interesting article...[/url] [editline]18th January 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Keeshond v2;27510007]Excessive force. You don't kill someone, let alone a kid over a wallet. If you must, incapacitate them with your firearm. If you don't know how to do that, you shouldn't have a gun in the first place. I know I'm going to get dumbs, but i don't think mugging someone deserves death. That kids life was worth more than the 500 dollars he was carrying in his wallet.[/QUOTE] The kid didn't think so. Also Florida has a law that says the victim has no requirement to run away from his attackers, and can defend himself as needed, as long as it is within the law.
[QUOTE=Keeshond v2;27510007] You don't kill someone, let alone a kid over a wallet. If you must, incapacitate them with your firearm. If you don't know how to do that, you shouldn't have a gun in the first place. [/QUOTE] That's the opposite of the truth. If you are shooting at someone you are [b]shooting to kill[/b]. You are never to shoot at someone with the intent to only injure them because guns are a lethal weapon.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;27510105]That's the opposite of the truth. If you are shooting at someone you are [b]shooting to kill[/b]. You are never to shoot at someone with the intent to only injure them because guns are a lethal weapon.[/QUOTE] Well then you shouldn't shoot at all and hand over the wallet. Taking someones life isn't worth it. I apologise, i live in a country where firearms are prohibited so i can only assume about gun safety [editline]19th January 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Ridge;27510018][url=http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BTT/is_168_28/ai_112685749/]Very interesting article...[/url] [editline]18th January 2011[/editline] The kid didn't think so. Also Florida has a law that says the victim has no requirement to run away from his attackers, and can defend himself as needed, as long as it is within the law.[/QUOTE] The law isn't a moral guideline that distinguishes right and wrong universally. And you don't go mugging someone if you know they're going to shoot you.
[QUOTE=Keeshond v2;27510007]Excessive force. You don't kill someone, let alone a kid over a wallet. If you must, incapacitate them with your firearm. If you don't know how to do that, you shouldn't have a gun in the first place. I know I'm going to get dumbs, but i don't think mugging someone deserves death. That kids life was worth more than the 500 dollars he was carrying in his wallet.[/QUOTE] But most police officers and firearms instructors tell you to shoot to kill and hope to christ you don't hit them in the back And yes, I would shoot him dead, as I'm not going to let some cunt steal a entire week's wage from me in 5 minutes without a fight
[QUOTE=Broseph_;27510201]But most police officers and firearms instructors tell you to shoot to kill and hope to christ you don't hit them in the back And yes, I would shoot him dead, as I'm not going to let some cunt steal a entire week's wage from me in 5 minutes without a fight[/QUOTE] You may choose to shoot to kill, but you always tell the cops and the jury you shot to stop the immediate threat.
[QUOTE=Broseph_;27510201]But most police officers and firearms instructors tell you to shoot to kill and hope to christ you don't hit them in the back And yes, I would shoot him dead, as I'm not going to let some cunt steal a entire week's wage from me in 5 minutes without a fight[/QUOTE] You are a horrible person and i would not have beers with you. A life is valueless. It's worth more than you could make in a life time.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;27510105]That's the opposite of the truth. If you are shooting at someone you are [b]shooting to kill[/b]. You are never to shoot at someone with the intent to only injure them because guns are a lethal weapon.[/QUOTE] Exactly, along with the fact due to ambulance chasing lawyers and fucked up laws, it's about 50 times less trouble to just needlessly fire a extra round or two to increase the chances of killing the asshole who just attempted to fuck you up, than allow them the chance tocome back and stab you in the back using legal means
He killed the guy That's disgusting
[QUOTE=Broseph_;27510333]Exactly, along with the fact due to ambulance chasing lawyers and fucked up laws, it's about 50 times less trouble to just needlessly fire a extra round or two to increase the chances of killing the asshole who just attempted to fuck you up, than allow them the chance tocome back and stab you in the back using legal means[/QUOTE] That's hardly a justification for murder.
[QUOTE=Ridge;27510255]You may choose to shoot to kill, but you always tell the cops and the jury you shot to stop the immediate threat.[/QUOTE] The jury? unless you just emptied the rest of your mag into him after he was on the ground you ain't seeing no Jury in my state
[QUOTE=Keeshond v2;27510400]That's hardly a justification for murder.[/QUOTE] it's self defense, the man felt his life was in danger so he responded accordingly. what was he supposed to do? let himself get potentially killed?
How shameful on both their parts. The shit should have known better and the jogger didnt have to instantly pull a gun and shoot the 16 y/o 8 times.
[QUOTE=hypno-toad;27510459]How shameful on both their parts. The shit should have known better and the jogger didnt have to instantly pull a gun and shoot the 16 y/o 8 times.[/QUOTE] Yeah, it's just as much the person defending themselves' fault as it is the person committing the crime.
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