Trump attacks protections for immigrants from ‘shithole’ countries in Oval Office meeting
147 replies, posted
[QUOTE=NassimO PotatO;53047099]Yes i have but i don't see the connection here, please enlighten me on this.[/QUOTE]
Well it's because Mr Orange is a well known racist, runs for a party of racists, being supported by and doesn't seem to know how to disown Nazis and white supremacists, saying he would rather have immigrants from Norway, whilst rather than him self saying it's for economic reasons he has to have his fanbase say it with no comment from the White House
[QUOTE=sgman91;53047288]I don't disagree that he's talking about the people as well as the country as a whole. It could be a racial thing, but it could also be a poor and uneducated thing. Either way it's an unfair stereotype, though. There are non-poor and educated people from those countries as well.[/QUOTE]
Then he should said poor and uneducated people. Calling anywhere a "shithole" because the economic or education demographics is problematic and offensive to the people living there. He's literally applying a stereotype for less wealthy or developing nations and applying it to the entirety of their peoples.
I've seen this defense so many times of trying to downplay or explain Trump's comments as being more nuanced than they actually are. If he wanted to make a point about that, then he should have. His remarks are quite indefensible as they stand, and that is exactly the problem.
[QUOTE=NassimO PotatO;53047291]It's no excuses, i totally disapprove what he said, it's just that it can be anything with his quote.[/QUOTE]
Another case of the "Man who tells it like it is" having to have someone interpret the words for the "Right" meaning.
No.
The president is a racist and you're being intentionally closed off to that information.
[QUOTE=gokiyono;53047315]Well it's because Mr Orange is a well known racist, runs for a party of racists, being supported by and doesn't seem to know how to disown Nazis and white supremacists, saying he would rather have immigrants from Norway, whilst rather than him self saying it's for economic reasons he has to have his fanbase say it with no comment from the White House[/QUOTE]
Alright now i got it. Thanks
[QUOTE=NassimO PotatO;53047298]Let's stop this here, this is going nowhere.[/QUOTE]
Because you have nothing to add to the discussion besides your interpretations of a statement?
Your interpretations which are easily seen through like glass?
[editline]12th January 2018[/editline]
[QUOTE=NassimO PotatO;53047332]Alright now i got it. Thanks[/QUOTE]
None of this should be new info to you. None of this is new info to anyone who actually keeps even remotely informed.
[QUOTE=sgman91;53047288]I don't disagree that he's talking about the people as well as the country as a whole. It could be a racial thing, but it could also be a poor and uneducated thing. Either way it's an unfair stereotype, though. There are non-poor and educated people from those countries as well.[/QUOTE]
I'm kinda confused as to what you think racism is. Racism isn't just "I hate you because you are black", more often, racism is exhibited by having ignorant opinions about a race that lead to negative generalizations.
Trump is assuming that nobody from these countries has anything of worth to bring to the US, which is a massive generalization, and which I would argue is abjectly false.
[QUOTE=The Vman;53047348]I'm kinda confused as to what you think racism is. Racism isn't just "I hate you because you are black", more often, racism is exhibited by having ignorant opinions about a race that lead to negative generalizations.
Trump is assuming that nobody from these countries has anything of worth to bring to the US, which is a massive generalization, and which I would argue is abjectly false.[/QUOTE]
The myth that racism is just hatred is so prevalent i'm not surprised people like sgman think of it as nothing but hate.
It's usually not out and out hate.
Racism has obvious examples, and subtle examples. Every subtle example of it ever mentioned in front of sgman has been devalued into being nothing. The only examples that he does seem to qualify as honest racism are obvious explicit examples of it.
Racism is so much more than that though.
Sgman, have you traveled outside of the US much? Outside of So-Cal?
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;53047334]None of this should be new info to you. None of this is new info to anyone who actually keeps even remotely informed.[/QUOTE]
It is, i live in a cave, a deep one. Didn't know any of his statements, i don't follow or read any political news or report, didn't know that even Nazis were behind him.
It was dumb, i'm sorry.
[QUOTE=NassimO PotatO;53047359]It is, i live in a cave, a deep one. Didn't know any of his statements, i don't follow or read any political news or report, didn't know that even Nazis were behind him.
It was dumb, i'm sorry.[/QUOTE]
Yes, but does that mean you've changed your mind? Or should I read all of that as sarcasm?
[QUOTE=Firgof Umbra;53047367]Yes, but does that mean you've changed your mind?[/QUOTE]
Yeah, now that i look at it with some distance it's racist, i mean talking about the origins of people like that is racism/xenophobia.
Gosh i wish i didn't posted all of this.
[QUOTE=NassimO PotatO;53047359]It is, i live in a cave, a deep one. Didn't know any of his statements, i don't follow or read any political news or report, didn't know that even Nazis were behind him.
It was dumb, i'm sorry.[/QUOTE]
Good on you for owning up to it. It's refreshing to see this sort of thing as opposed to some people being to proud to admit when they're wrong.
[QUOTE=NassimO PotatO;53047381]Yeah, now that i look at it with some distance it's racist, i mean talking about the origins of people like that is racism/xenophobia.
Gosh i wish i didn't posted all of this.[/QUOTE]
Don't wish that. There's nothing wrong with having a different interpretation - though it's typically seen as 'courteous' to get yourself 'read up' on the subject matter at hand before offering your opinion. The only 'bad thing to do' in debate is to refuse to acknowledge your opponent's points or refuse change your own position when it becomes impossible to hold and instead demand the debate simply end.
E: It's honestly a bit of a refreshing moment here in Polidicks to see that come about.
[QUOTE=NassimO PotatO;53047381]Yeah, now that i look at it with some distance it's racist, i mean talking about the origins of people like that is racism/xenophobia.
Gosh i wish i didn't posted all of this.[/QUOTE]
Then I'm genuinely sorry for any perceived hostility.
[QUOTE=The Vman;53047348]I'm kinda confused as to what you think racism is. Racism isn't just "I hate you because you are black", more often, racism is exhibited by having ignorant opinions about a race that lead to negative generalizations.
Trump is assuming that nobody from these countries has anything of worth to bring to the US, which is a massive generalization, and which I would argue is abjectly false.[/QUOTE]
I would agree that it's bigoted against people from those countries, it just doesn't seem to apply to all black people or all Hispanic people. I doubt Trump would have an issue with a wealthy black guy from New York, for example.
Like I said in my first comment, I find it a disgusting thing to say.
[QUOTE=sgman91;53047392]I doubt Trump would have an issue with a wealthy black guy from New York.[/QUOTE]
His father would, which makes me think that so would Trump himself.
[QUOTE=sgman91;53047392]I would agree that it's bigoted against people from those countries, it just doesn't seem to apply to all black people or all Hispanic people. I doubt Trump would have an issue with a wealthy black guy from New York, for example.
Like I said in my first comment, I find it a disgusting thing to say.[/QUOTE]
He kept black people out of one of his towers
I think he'd find a way
[QUOTE=sgman91;53047392]I would agree that it's bigoted against people from those countries, it just doesn't seem to apply to all black people or all Hispanic people. I doubt Trump would have an issue with a wealthy black guy from New York.[/QUOTE]
So it's only racism if you're talking about all people on earth of a certain skin tone?
So by your definition it wouldn't be racist of me to say "All Mexicans are worthless pieces of shit who don't deserve to exist", if I didn't say the same thing about Spaniards?
[QUOTE=sgman91;53047392]I would agree that it's bigoted against people from those countries, it just doesn't seem to apply to all black people or all Hispanic people.[B] I doubt Trump would have an issue with a wealthy black guy from New York, for example[/B].
Like I said in my first comment, I find it a disgusting thing to say.[/QUOTE]
This sentiment basically mimics the "they're not all bad" excuses people use to disguise or otherwise justify their own racism.
[QUOTE=NassimO PotatO;53047381]Yeah, now that i look at it with some distance it's racist, i mean talking about the origins of people like that is racism/xenophobia.
Gosh i wish i didn't posted all of this.[/QUOTE]
If you learned something, you shouldn't regret anything.
It's better to be wrong and then learn publicly than to be wrong forever in private.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;53047389]Then I'm genuinely sorry for any perceived hostility.[/QUOTE]
It's ok man, sometimes you need "slaps 'n punches in the face" to make people understand some points, go foward. This moment was it.
[QUOTE=The Vman;53047405]So it's only racism if you're talking about all people on earth of a certain skin tone?
So by your definition it wouldn't be racist of me to say "All Mexicans are worthless pieces of shit who don't deserve to exist", if I didn't say the same thing about Spaniards?[/QUOTE]
Take a rich guy who's parents were born in El Salvador, then.
I differentiate between race and nationality, yes.
[QUOTE=sgman91;53047392]I would agree that it's bigoted against people from those countries, it just doesn't seem to apply to all black people or all Hispanic people. I doubt Trump would have an issue with a wealthy black guy from New York, for example.[/QUOTE]
Well, he does have a whole bunch of issues with a successful black guy from Hawaii, so...
[QUOTE=sgman91;53047427]Take a rich guy who's parents were born in El Salvador, then.
I differentiate between race and nationality, yes.[/QUOTE]
Take them to do/think about what? What?
[quote=Sir Whoopsalot]Well, he does have a whole bunch of issues with a successful black guy from Hawaii, so...[/quote]
But, see, that guy made fun of him on a night where he roasted a bunch of people - so he deserves all of this literal pissing on his presidential legacy because... well, because. Surely it has nothing to do with his skintone. I mean, it wasn't Trump who got immediately on the 'Obama is a secret Kenyan [I]and[/I] secret Muslim-Founder-Of-ISIS' train, right? He didn't start that train either - because that'd be horrendously racist and we know Trump isn't so...
[QUOTE=sgman91;53047427]Take a rich guy who's parents were born in El Salvador, then.
I differentiate between race and nationality, yes.[/QUOTE]
Like he has no issues with Obama and wiped out his entire legacy because?
Don't tiptoe around it, he has shown in no way that he gives a damn about anyone who's not white, and his hostility proves it.
[QUOTE=sgman91;53047427]Take a rich guy who's parents were born in El Salvador, then.
I differentiate between race and nationality, yes.[/QUOTE]
A black american who grew up in Chicago earns Trumps absolute hatred
That man is Obama, and I don't really have any problems seeing Trump as a racist based on this behaviour or his other truck loads of behaviours
[QUOTE=sgman91;53047427]Take a rich guy who's parents were born in El Salvador, then.
I differentiate between race and nationality, yes.[/QUOTE]
So we ought to be using the word "xenophobic" instead, and like 90% of the commonplace usage of the word "racism" is [I]technically[/I] incorrect?
[QUOTE=Zonesylvania;53047434]Like he has no issues with Obama and wiped out his entire legacy because?
Don't tiptoe around it, he has shown in no way that he gives a damn about anyone who's not white, and his hostility proves it.[/QUOTE]
"How can I be racist when I pal around with Dr. Ben Carson here?? FAKE NEWS!"
[QUOTE=Firgof Umbra;53047439]"How can I be racist when I pal around with Dr. Ben Carson here?? FAKE NEWS!"[/QUOTE]
It's funny how you mock an individual example that nobody used in order to support an individual example.
[editline]12th January 2018[/editline]
[QUOTE=The Vman;53047438]So we ought to be using the word "xenophobic" instead, and like 90% of the commonplace usage of the word "racism" is [I]technically[/I] incorrect?[/QUOTE]
Honestly, why do you feel the need to attach more words to it? It was bigoted. Why isn't that enough?
(Xenophobic means you fear or dislike people from other countries in general, not a specific country.)
[QUOTE=sgman91;53047460]It's funny how you mock an individual example that nobody used in order to support an individual example.[/QUOTE]
It's funny you think I [I]need[/I] to mock said individual example when it does a fair job of mocking and supporting itself.
[QUOTE=sgman91;53047460]Honestly, why do you feel the need to attach more words to it? It was bigoted. Why isn't that enough?[/QUOTE]
Why are you so invested in claiming Trump isn't racist or xenophobic when he has a long running history of bigotry against people of other races?
[quote](Xenophobic means you fear or dislike people from other countries in general, not a specific country.)[/quote]
This is comically pedantic.
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