• US housing boss Ben Carson calls US slaves 'immigrants'
    71 replies, posted
[URL="http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-39188162"]http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-39188162[/URL] Video source but it's also an article so: [QUOTE]Ben Carson, the secretary of housing and urban development, has compared slaves to immigrants, on his first day in his new job. In a 40-minute speech to staff, he praised immigrants who worked long hours to build a better future for their children. "That's what America is about. A land of dreams and opportunity," he told staff. "There were other immigrants who came here in the bottom of slave ships, worked even longer, even harder for less. But they, too, had a dream." After criticism that he was being insensitive, Mr Carson later tweeted: [B]"You can be an involuntary immigrant."[/B][/QUOTE] :what:
[quote]im·mi·grant ˈiməɡrənt/ noun a person who comes to live permanently in a foreign country.[/quote] Imported slaves are immigrants.
He isn't wrong. He's just an asshole.
[QUOTE=sannys;51926096]Imported slaves are immigrants.[/QUOTE] That's like saying America isn't a democracy .
The error is not in referring to slaves as immigrants, it's his line about having a dream. The slaves were not fucking brought here voluntarily to live the fucking American dream. They were forcibly brought here from Africa. [I]Their dream was to go back home to their families and not be strangers in a strange land doing forced labor.[/I] [editline]7th March 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Lambeth;51926108]That's like saying America isn't a democracy .[/QUOTE] It's not, it's a republic. Unless you meant that it's shitty semantics.
[QUOTE=Lambeth;51926108]That's like saying America isn't a democracy .[/QUOTE] Huh? If you're trying to make a point, you aren't doing a very good job.
[URL="https://www.facebook.com/realbencarson/posts/797060963793705"]He appears to have apologised on his Facebook?[/URL]
[QUOTE=BlackMageMari;51926136][URL="https://www.facebook.com/realbencarson/posts/797060963793705"]He appears to have apologised on his Facebook?[/URL][/QUOTE] That's the most damage control nonapology I've read all week.
[QUOTE=Sonador;51926142]That's the most damage control nonapology I've read all week.[/QUOTE] He shouldn't have even done it. There's nothing wrong with calling imported slaves immigrants. Feels like liberals are nitpicking every little thing someone says purely based on the fact that they don't like Trump or his administration. Donald J Trump is President of the United States of America. That statement alone triggers liberals.
[QUOTE=sannys;51926171]He shouldn't have even done it. There's nothing wrong with calling imported slaves immigrants. Feels like liberals are nitpicking every little thing someone says purely based on the fact that they don't like Trump or his administration. Donald J Trump is Presideent of the United States of America. That statement alone triggers liberals.[/QUOTE] uh this is sarcastic right? please tell me this is sarcastic
[QUOTE=Sonador;51926178]uh this is sarcastic right? please tell me this is sarcastic[/QUOTE] Instead of trying for zings perhaps you can actually come up with a response? And no, I'm not being sarcastic. Shit like this is a classic case of [URL="http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Baby+Rage"]baby rage[/URL]. [quote]An emotion that occurs when one is extremely angry, but powerless to do anything about whatever is making them angry.[/quote]
[QUOTE=Sonador;51926112]It's not, it's a republic. Unless you meant that it's shitty semantics.[/QUOTE] You hit the nail on the head
People being imported to a country under chattel slavery are to immigrants what forced labor prisoners are to employees. [editline]7th March 2017[/editline] It's technically true but contextually nonsense, which is why the only places you will find slaves being described as immigrants is in Texas history textbooks, or from conservatives. The idea of an "involuntary immigrant" to describe a slave is as laughable as describing a prisoner as an "involuntary house guest".
[QUOTE=sannys;51926189]Instead of trying for zings perhaps you can actually come up with a response? And no, I'm not being sarcastic. Shit like this is a classic case of [URL="http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Baby+Rage"]baby rage[/URL].[/QUOTE] Awful post aside, here's your response: He's an idiot because he referred to [I]indentured slaves[/I] as [I]coming to America to live the dream.[/I] This has nothing to do with liberals or conservatives, it's not a matter of sensitivity, it's stupid and wrong, just like your post. Baby rage. [I]Please.[/I]
Let's all make misleading statements by removing centuries of context. Really Christianity is just a Jewish cult that has gotten way outta hand.
Well I'm sick and tired of immigrants taking American jobs so he should go back to his country /s
[QUOTE=Lambeth;51926217]Let's all make misleading statements by removing centuries of context. Really Christianity is just a Jewish cult that has gotten way outta hand.[/QUOTE] Christians kidnapped by Muslim raiders off the Mediterranean were economic migrants to the Middle East.
"That's what America is about. A land of dreams and opportunity," he told staff. "There were other immigrants who came here in the bottom of slave ships, worked even longer, even harder for less. But they, too, had a dream." It disgusts me that he'd insinuate that slavery was some kind of noble struggle.
[QUOTE=Sonador;51926216]Awful post aside, here's your response: He's an idiot because he referred to [I]indentured slaves[/I] as [I]coming to America to live the dream.[/I] This has nothing to do with liberals or conservatives, it's not a matter of sensitivity, it's stupid and wrong, just like your post. Baby rage. [I]Please.[/I][/QUOTE] This is the first line in the article. [quote]Ben Carson, the secretary of housing and urban development, has compared slaves to immigrants, on his first day in his new job.[/quote] This is the bolded line in the OP. [quote][B]You can be an involuntary immigrant.[/B][/quote] So I'm not sure what you're talking about. And what's with you insulting me? Where do you see me insulting you? This is yet another symptom of baby rage. It also is most definitely related to political affiliation, because most conservatives don't give a shit about things like this. It's a non-issue for them because the person they (probably) voted for won. [QUOTE=Primigenes;51926234]Slaves didn't [B]come[/B] to America. They were [B]brought[/B] as victims of human trafficking[/QUOTE] They did come to America. First they were somewhere else, and then they were in America. Doesn't matter the means.
[QUOTE=sannys;51926241]This is the first line in the article. This is the bolded line in the OP.[/QUOTE] I bolded that part to highlight his stupidity. Not because I thought it was a good thing. Why do you think I put a :what: smilie in afterwards? Carson has always said some weird stuff but this takes the case. At-least with the pyramids being grain things it's a harmless but weird and instantiated alternate theory about their use. But frankly calling slaves "immigrants" and avoiding the context of them being forced to come to the country against their will - which means they were slaves, and were not immigrants as we understand them - is utterly wrong and it's horrible Carson said this. Also, stop bringing up irrelevant political divisions applicable only to America here. I know of what I would call "conservatives" (or more adaptably, economically conservative) in this country who would be as appalled at Carson's comments. EDIT: of course the means matters, it changes the entire context! They were not willing immigrants and to use the term to describe them misses the context that they were [I]slaves forced into this![/I]
[QUOTE=Primigenes;51926234]Slaves didn't [B]come[/B] to America. They were [B]brought[/B] as victims of human trafficking[/QUOTE] Additionally, they weren't treated as people but as property. There were essentially no rights for slaves in America. Abusing ones slaves would be like abusing ones livestock. There were laws against the "casual" killing of slaves but the state had to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the killing was done casually. Very, very few slave owners were ever charged with a crime for abusing their own slaves (damaging other peoples "estate" was, of course, heavily punishable) and only in the most extreme circumstances. Slaves had no titles, no heirs, could not plead or be plead for in court, and could be bought, sold, or transferred at will. What constitutes "a person" differs dramatically based on where and when you are looking and even in a contemporary context has a lot of definitions but you would be hard pressed to define a slave in colonial America as such from a modern point of view. [editline]7th March 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=sannys;51926241] They did come to America. First they were somewhere else, and then they were in America. Doesn't matter the means.[/QUOTE] Yes it does. This is why people distinguish refugees from immigrants from migrants from slaves. All four can move from one geographical location to another across an arbitrary border but all of them have different specific contexts for the why's and how's of their travel. [editline]7th March 2017[/editline] You're essentially saying "human trafficking" and "immigration" are the same thing, but I think to even call the Atlantic slave trade "human trafficking" is [B]still [/B]underselling the historical context.
This reads like satire. Who in their right mind would say something this dumb, especially a politician?
[QUOTE=BlackMageMari;51926255]I bolded that part to highlight his stupidity. Not because I thought it was a good thing. Why do you think I put a :what: smilie in afterwards?[/quote]I didn't say you said it was a good thing, I quoted that part because that's obviously what this thread was talking about and not what Sonador is speaking of. [quote]Also, stop bringing up irrelevant political divisions applicable only to America here. I know of what I would call "conservatives" (or more adaptably, economically conservative) in this country who would be as appalled at Carson's comments.[/quote]This is a thread about American politics, American politicians, and American history. If you don't like that I'm referring to American political parties, then go post in a thread about politics in Ireland. Party affiliation plays a role in [I]everything[/I] related to politics: this included. [quote]But frankly calling slaves "immigrants" and avoiding the context of them being forced to come to the country against their will - which means they were slaves, and were not immigrants as we understand them - is utterly wrong and it's horrible Carson said this.[/quote] [quote] EDIT: of course the means matters, it changes the entire context! They were not willing immigrants and to use the term to describe them misses the context that they were [I]slaves forced into this![/I][/quote] Which he addresses in the part that [B]you bolded[/B]. [quote]You can be an involuntary immigrant.[/quote]
Let's try and keep this a bit more on topic please
African slaves in the Americas boarded an all-expenses-paid ship across the ocean to America to earn valuable work experience as agricultural interns. While unpaid, these positions held numerous boons, like free room and board, as well as an emphasis on family.
[QUOTE=sannys;51926241]So I'm not sure what you're talking about.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=BlackMageMari;51926084]"There were other immigrants who came here in the bottom of slave ships, worked even longer, even harder for less. But they, too, had a dream." :what:[/QUOTE] Read the article before posting and quit posting about this baby rage nonsense, please.
[QUOTE=sannys;51926292] This is a thread about American politics, American politicians, and American history. If you don't like that I'm referring to American political parties, then go post in a thread about politics in Ireland. [B]Party affiliation plays a role in [I]everything[/I] related to politics: this included.[/B][/QUOTE] I really don't think so. I just think you like shitposting about liberals. [QUOTE=sannys;51926292]Which he addresses in the part that [B]you bolded[/B].[/QUOTE] He bolded it because the concept of an "involuntary immigrant" is on it's face absurd. One precludes the other, especially in the case where you aren't talking about people in the contemporary sense but rather property who had all the recognized rights of livestock. [editline]7th March 2017[/editline] Ben Carson should just never talk about historical stuff, it's clearly well out of his field of study.
[QUOTE=Bengley;51926301]Let's try and keep this a bit more on topic please[/QUOTE] I'd argue that a discussion about what the definiton of immigrant is, in a way, on-topic
I'm assuming Bengley is talking about sannys bizarre partisan ranting
what a fucking joke of an administration.
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