US Senate votes 97-2 to put Russia sanctions into law
59 replies, posted
[QUOTE=nulls;52361010]
Or pull a classic America and fund Ukrainian military forces which will eventually become an enemy of the US government.
[/QUOTE]
Imagine being stupid enough to compare Taliban with Ukraine.
[QUOTE=da space core;52363183]you go protest your own government (which to your credit, you are)[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]our government keeps not giving a shit
[/QUOTE]
Same situation how the American government doesn't give a shit about protesters. Except lots more arrests.
How about America just fucks off from Europe already? If Russian government truly influenced your election, then its your government's responsibility to deal with that. The US government shouldn't be making foreign citizen's life hell because they're completely incompetent and can't figure out what to do in the event of an theoretically illegitimate president.
[editline]15th June 2017[/editline]
[QUOTE=Ghost656;52363276]Imagine being stupid enough to compare Taliban with Ukraine.[/QUOTE]
True, Taliban were just Islamic religion of peace.
Ukrainian militias are just the nazi ideology of peace.
Imagine being stupid enough to not realize that the US has funded more organizations than just the taliban.
[highlight](User was banned for this post ("Trolling" - Bradyns))[/highlight]
[highlight](User was banned for this post ("Creating gimmick alts" - Novangel))[/highlight]
[QUOTE=da space core;52363183]Well what do you suggest instead? Kidnapping Putin and locking him in one of our prisons?
[/QUOTE]
I dunno, are you the world police?
[QUOTE=nulls;52363500]True, Taliban were just Islamic religion of peace.
Ukrainian militias are just the nazi ideology of peace.
Imagine being stupid enough to not realize that the US has funded more organizations than just the taliban.[/QUOTE]
I'm pretty sure he was referring to the whole "becoming an enemy of the US" thing
[QUOTE=proboardslol;52362738]I was thinking more covert shit. We've resumed a cold war and I hope our CIA is actively doing something about Russia other than leaking unflattering details about its leaders[/QUOTE]
Like what, hack their elections?
[QUOTE=proboardslol;52362738]I was thinking more covert shit. We've resumed a cold war and I hope our CIA is actively doing something about Russia other than leaking unflattering details about its leaders[/QUOTE]
you know this is one of the reasons why Russia tries to pull their shit - it's because America keeps fucking meddling in everything and making it worse. Russia isn't a saint by any means, but Russia is encouraged to intervene in other countries and their affairs because America does it so much
just look at the whole middle east. 16 years of wars and ineptitude of invading shitty dictatorships while ignoring the obvious terrorists and then pretending Iran is to blame and trying to forge a casus belli to nuke it while the Saudis literally export and fund terrorists to go to the west to blow up people and run them down in trucks
[QUOTE=da space core;52363183]Well what do you suggest instead? Kidnapping Putin and locking him in one of our prisons?
If you guys, as Russian citizens, get hurt because of your governments stupid decisions, you go protest your own government (which to your credit, you are)[/QUOTE]
Because all these anti-government protests have achieved so much.
Their government doesn't give a damn and protests as you know have been almost always getting dismantled.
Plus not to mention it's easy for people to dislike the US/EU when ordinary lives are getting fucked by their governments actions (their government that is fucking around in places that have nothing to do with the US, I am of course referring to Ukraine and Syria and not the elections) while their government doesn't get affected by it at all.
Unfortunately as people have already said there's not much else to do.
The big problem with Russia imo is that honestly the eastern european/russian people aren't nearly as democracy-orientated as westerners. To a large extent, the reason dictatorial governments succeed more often there is by the will of the people; in a certain way.
[url]http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/06/08/tepid-support-for-democracy-among-both-young-and-old-in-central-and-eastern-europe/[/url]
[T]http://assets.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/12/2017/06/07110228/FT_17.06.07_easternEuropeAge_democracy310px.png[/T]
[QUOTE=joshuadim;52360510]And how would you go about doing this, other than sanctions against a hostile foreign government?
edit: [B]Maybe Russia shouldn't have been interfering in western elections as well as violating the sovereignty of Ukraine[/B].[/QUOTE]
So the world should put sanctions on the US?
[QUOTE=nulls;52363500]
True, Taliban were just Islamic religion of peace.
Ukrainian militias are just the nazi ideology of peace.
[/QUOTE]
I remember we had a discussion about this and it seems you still haven't learned anything about this.
If you genuinely believe and generalize all Ukrainian militias to be nazis because Azov battalion made you offended you're already knee deep in Russian disinformation.
I'm really wondering, are you this stubborn/deep in the rabbithole or are you deliberately trying to spread bullshit?
Back to your point, how do you imagine "nazi militias" which have really limited political power to suddenly turn the entire Ukrainian government into the enemy of the US?
It's such a dumb comparison on it's own, besides the generalization of "Úkrainian militias being nazis".
[QUOTE=nulls;52363500]
True, Taliban were just Islamic religion of peace.
Ukrainian militias are just the nazi ideology of peace.
[/QUOTE]
The Taliban are an insurgency, Ukraine is a legitimate nation which would be pretty stable without Russian interference. Your analogy makes no sense and your unfounded point about Ukrainian nazi militias is actually pretty irrelevant regardless of its veracity.
[QUOTE=nulls;52363500]Same situation how the American government doesn't give a shit about protesters. Except lots more arrests.
How about America just fucks off from Europe already? If Russian government truly influenced your election, then its your government's responsibility to deal with that. The US government shouldn't be making foreign citizen's life hell because they're completely incompetent and can't figure out what to do in the event of an theoretically illegitimate president.
[editline]15th June 2017[/editline]
True, Taliban were just Islamic religion of peace.
Ukrainian militias are just the nazi ideology of peace.
Imagine being stupid enough to not realize that the US has funded more organizations than just the taliban.
[highlight](User was banned for this post ("Trolling" - Bradyns))[/highlight][/QUOTE]
[B][I][U]FREE MAH NIGGA NULLS :bullshit:[/U][/I][/B]
[highlight](User was permabanned for this post ("Gimmick" - Novangel))[/highlight]
[QUOTE=Kentz;52366793]So the world should put sanctions on the US?[/QUOTE]
If they felt like could, of if it would have the desired effect, sure. Obviously though no one wants to sanction the US because it hurts them more than it does us.
[QUOTE=damnatus;52362647]Oh hell yeah make our lives even harder while our government keeps not giving a shit[/QUOTE]
yeah pretty much
come back when your country stops actively trying to destabilize the planet.
[QUOTE=Radical_ed;52381025]yeah pretty much
come back when your country stops actively trying to destabilize the planet.[/QUOTE]
You mean like the US in the Middle East? or the US in the Korean Peninsula? No wait, maybe you mean like the US in Latin America? Or maybe you're talking about the dozens of armed coups backed by the US intelligence agencies around the world?
The irony of an American trying to accuse literally any country of intentional destabilization is fucking hilarious.
Ignorance combined with arrogance is a dangerous trait, friendo.
[QUOTE=nulls;52381293]You mean like the US in the Middle East? or the US in the Korean Peninsula? No wait, maybe you mean like the US in Latin America? Or maybe you're talking about the dozens of armed coups backed by the US intelligence agencies around the world?
The irony of an American trying to accuse literally any country of intentional destabilization is fucking hilarious.
Ignorance combined with arrogance is a dangerous trait, friendo.[/QUOTE]
So your argument is that no one else does what the US does? But if they did, we aren't allowed to talk about it because we do too?
That's pretty fucking stupid...
[QUOTE=Revenge282;52381351]So your argument is that no one else does what the US does? But if they did, we aren't allowed to talk about it because we do too?
That's pretty fucking stupid...[/QUOTE]
Let me know of another country with mitary bases in 30+ countries overseas (some of whom don't even want them there) that has been destabilizing regions of the world for the last 2+ decades.
[I](protip: it's not Russia)[/I]
But anyways, way to dodge my entire argument and replace it with a strawman. Truly incredible. :godzing:
[QUOTE=nulls;52381367]Let me know of another country with mitary bases in 30+ countries overseas (some of whom don't even want them there) that has been destabilizing regions of the world for the last 2 decades.
[I](protip: it's not Russia)[/I]
But anyways, way to dodge my entire argument and replace it with a strawman. Truly incredible. :godzing:[/QUOTE]
Let me know of another country that is the logistical backbone of the largest, and most powerful, alliance of countries in this planet's history that has to maintain a presence in those 30+ countries in order to keep the alliance formidable to hostile powers.
[I](protip: it's America, and that alliance is NATO)[/I]
[QUOTE=Revenge282;52381380]Let me know of another country that is the logistical backbone of the largest, and most powerful, alliance of countries in this planet's history that has to maintain a presence in those 30+ countries in order to keep the alliance formidable to hostile powers.
[I](protip: it's America, and that alliance is NATO)[/I][/QUOTE]
So your argument is essentially that NATO/Murica should stay in those 30+ countries just so they can remain powerful?
Sounds like some imperialistic bullshit, but okay.
Those 'hostile powers' are a natural response to NATO/America destabilizing areas around the world since the 60's.
[QUOTE=nulls;52381402]So your argument is essentially that NATO/Murica should stay in those 30+ countries just so they can remain powerful?
Sounds like some imperialistic bullshit, but okay.[/QUOTE]
Yes, that is my argument, because your alternative is Russia in the Middle East/Eastern Europe and China in the Asia/Pacific regions. I'd also like you to look at a map and tell me what is between Europe and Russia, and why that may be a beneficial place to hold on to for NATO.
[QUOTE=Revenge282;52381410]Yes, that is my argument, because your alternative is Russia in the Middle East/Eastern Europe and China in the Asia/Pacific regions. I'd also like you to look at a map and tell me what is between Europe and Russia, and why that may be a beneficial place to hold on to for NATO.[/QUOTE]
Take a look at a map of Russia vs. US military bases worldwide (as of 2014).
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/iCz6NpR.jpg[/IMG]
And what gives you the impression that because we don't want American military influence we automatically want Russian? That's fucking retarded.
The Russian federation hadn't been involved in the Middle East until 2015 (13ish years after America started invading?), and they've never held influence over large amounts of the Asia/Pacific regions, China, etc.
Do you believe that if the US were to pull out of overseas military installations, Russia would just invade the entire continents of Europe and Asia? Because that's the impression I'm getting from your post.
[QUOTE=nulls;52381450]Take a look at a map of Russia vs. US military bases worldwide (as of 2014).
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/iCz6NpR.jpg[/IMG]
And what gives you the impression that because we don't want American military influence we automatically want Russian? That's fucking retarded.
The Russian federation hadn't been involved in the Middle East until 2015 (13ish years after America started invading?), and they've never held influence over large amounts of the Asia/Pacific regions, China, etc.
Do you believe that if the US were to pull out of overseas military installations, Russia would just invade the entire continents of Europe and Asia? Because that's the impression I'm getting from your post.[/QUOTE]
I didn't say Russia was in Asia/Pacific, I said China was handling that. Russia has been pulling power moves in Crimea, Ukraine, Syria, and Baltic sea. So yes, I believe that if NATO were to pull out of the countries that create a buffer, that void would be filled by Russia in due time.
This is a pretty simple deduction to make in the current political climate. Assuming Russia and China would stand idle when they face no resistance given their recent behavior is blissful ignorance at best.
[QUOTE=Revenge282;52381478]I didn't say Russia was in Asia/Pacific, I said China was handling that. Russia has been pulling power moves in Crimea, Ukraine, Syria, and Baltic sea. So yes, I believe that if NATO were to pull out of the countries that create a buffer, that void would be filled by Russia in due time.
This is a pretty simple deduction to make in the current political climate. Assuming Russia and China would stand idle when they face no resistance given their recent behavior is blissful ignorance at best.[/QUOTE]
Oops, misread the Asia/Pacific bit, my bad.
Regarding Crimea: 70%ish of Crimea's population is Russian, Russia's largest naval facility has been in Crimea for centuries, and the population held a referendum which ended in an overwhelming majority wanting to split from Ukraine to merge with the Russian Federation.
Regarding Syria: al-Assad and his government [I]wants[/I] Russia military forces in Syria, because they're actively combating ISIS. While the US is more focused on backing rebels to fight ISIS and the Syrian government, contributing to the ongoing shitshow. There's really not much to be said other than that.
[QUOTE=nulls;52381504]Oops, misread the Asia/Pacific bit, my bad.
Regarding Crimea: 70%ish of Crimea's population is Russian, Russia's largest naval facility has been in Crimea for centuries, and the population held a referendum which ended in an overwhelming majority wanting to split from Ukraine to merge with the Russian Federation.
Regarding Syria: al-Assad and his government [I]wants[/I] Russia military forces in Syria, because they're actively combating ISIS. While the US is more focused on backing rebels to fight ISIS and the Syrian government, contributing to the ongoing shitshow. There's really not much to be said other than that.[/QUOTE]
So then let's scratch deeper than the surface of Syria, and wonder why Russia is in the ISIS mess anyways. Currently, they stand to lose quite a bit if they remain benched. Namely their ability to export oil to Europe. Without it, they are losing a huge income source.
[QUOTE=nulls;52381293]The irony of an American trying to accuse literally any country of intentional destabilization is fucking hilarious.
Ignorance combined with arrogance is a dangerous trait, friendo.[/QUOTE]
It's only ironic when you make the idiotic, and often incorrect, assumption that said American approves of US meddling to begin with. You'll find that a large majority of those who are saying it's bad for other nations to do it also agree that the US should refrain from doing so as well.
So trump signed this into law right? Imagine the outrage if he were to have vetoed it :v:
[QUOTE=MrRalgoman;52381881]So trump signed this into law right? Imagine the outrage if he were to have vetoed it :v:[/QUOTE]
It came with far greater than the 2/3rds majority that the senate requires to override a veto anyway, it's not like it would have mattered since they'd just revote and pass it anyway.
[QUOTE=nulls;52381293]You mean like the US in the Middle East? or the US in the Korean Peninsula? No wait, maybe you mean like the US in Latin America? Or maybe you're talking about the dozens of armed coups backed by the US intelligence agencies around the world?
The irony of an American trying to accuse literally any country of intentional destabilization is fucking hilarious.
Ignorance combined with arrogance is a dangerous trait, friendo.[/QUOTE]
The U.S. can get fucked for trying to harm other nations, too.
We do bring stability to a lot of the world despite our meddling, but we also do a lot of bad. If we were in trouble I wouldn't raise a hand of help to us if I was a foreign nation.
[QUOTE=nulls;52381367]Let me know of another country with military bases in 30+ countries overseas (some of whom don't even want them there) that has been destabilizing regions of the world for the last 2+ decades.
[I](protip: it's not Russia)[/I][/QUOTE]
We have military bases in countries who wanted or agreed to have us there, NATO membership is voluntary. Cuba doesn't want us there, but they signed an agreement with us and we even continue to pay for it even though the money sits in an unused account because Cuba refuses to accept it. The Soviet Union had military bases and membership in countries that [I]didn't[/I] want to partake, but had no choice because their land was occupied by the Soviet Army since the end of World War 2, and their governments were Soviet puppets. I won't defend the US's actions, but the fact that we did them doesn't mean Russia can keep invading their neighbors.
Also in relation to another post: Korea was a UN intervention, while the US was by far the bulk of the foreign combatants, we were acting under the banner of the United Nations.
[QUOTE=Kentz;52366793]So the world should put sanctions on the US?[/QUOTE]
How is this the constant response?
Yes, it was bad when the US did it. It's still bad now that Russia did it and it's likely to impact all nations globally down the road but keep kicking that can dude.
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