• Japan: Immigrants eyed as a key to maintaining population level
    98 replies, posted
[QUOTE=cNova;44079114]I dont understand. Are they mocking him ?[/QUOTE] do you mean davido-kun? if so, yes.
AII WHERE THEM ASIAN WOMENS AT?
[QUOTE=Valnar;44076065]Oh that is most definitely a big part of the reason why its happening, especially so rapidly. I should have been more specific though, I was meaning mostly the population loss in japan is going to be happening soon in first world countries. But another big thing that is happening in Japan and also happening in other first world countries is the rise of NEETS, (generally) young adults who are Not in Education, Employment or Training. ..[/QUOTE] We're talking about two different things here. Population level is one thing. Low birthrates lead to an older population. When the older people start dying off you don't have enough babies being born to replace them= loss of population. This 'NEET" thing has nothing to do with that. Whether young people reject corporate culture, reject employment in general, don't get educated or trained, none of that has anything to do with the birthrate and therefore nothing to do with the population level.
[QUOTE=Rangergxi;44078636]Probably hundreds of different reasons ranging from laziness to crippling anxiety. With Japan the intense competitive nature of the workforce probably drives people away.[/QUOTE] To expand on the crippling anxiety, there is a lot of pressure placed on students during their high school career that many commit suicide or shut themselves from the outside world. And Japan views having outside people interfere with "family issues" as dishonorable, many families just shelter the person only further feeding the problem.
Whitu piggu go home
I don't see why there's such an anti immigration sentiment here. Almost all of the problems we're talking about come back to an aging set of hyper critical and strict unchallenged cultural norms, right? Wouldn't some outside perspective be the easiest way to start fixing that? I love Japanese culture and I love the stuff the Japanese make. But they shouldn't be literally suffocating themselves in a cloud of ridiculous expectations and repression to make it. Maybe a group of loud, obnoxious, entitled, dishonorable nanban complaining would be enough to start a major conversation about things like corruption and crushing social pressure. I don't want them to stop being all Japanese, I just want them to be able to live more comfortably while being all Japanese. Maybe I'm missing something, feel free to point out if I am.
I just find it ironic that the people with the strongest anti-immigrant sentiments are usually the ones who wax poetic about the free market. Last I checked, one of it's central tenets is the freedom of movement for workers.
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;44080837]I don't see why there's such an anti immigration sentiment here. Almost all of the problems we're talking about come back to an aging set of hyper critical and strict unchallenged cultural norms, right? Wouldn't some outside perspective be the easiest way to start fixing that? I love Japanese culture and I love the stuff the Japanese make. But they shouldn't be literally suffocating themselves in a cloud of ridiculous expectations and repression to make it. Maybe a group of loud, obnoxious, entitled, dishonorable nanban complaining would be enough to start a major conversation about things like corruption and crushing social pressure. I don't want them to stop being all Japanese, I just want them to be able to live more comfortably while being all Japanese. Maybe I'm missing something, feel free to point out if I am.[/QUOTE] Here in the US we have a positive birthrate...but only because of the contribution of immigrants(including illegal). Yet there are still rabidly anti-immigration feelings in a large and very vocal part of our population. And we here in the US are known as a diverse melting pot! I can only imagine how hard it is to convince people to welcome immigrants into a country that is more homogeneous like Japan.
Well if Japan is opening up to Immigration, I would be somewhat tempted to apply. I have no interest in the anime and that crap, but the culture and background fascinate me to no end. It would be quite the adventure to start on one end, north or south, and to travel to the other. Japan is large, but it is definitely no China or United States. So the trip is possible and the landscape changes so drastically from one end to the other. Japan is a pretty neat place, in my opinion.
This was their last resort. They wanted to maintain racial purity
[QUOTE=Psychokitten;44078176]I really don't understand NEETs. Why the hell wouldn't you work?[/QUOTE] Because having to spend 8 hours a day, 6 days a week, doing something you don't want to is exhausting.
[QUOTE=Desuh;44083226]Because having to spend 8 hours a day, 6 days a week, doing something you don't want to is exhausting.[/QUOTE] I meant in this country. All of those people who do nothing but sit in their parent's basements and play videogames. What's going through their heads?
[QUOTE=Psychokitten;44083810]I meant in this country. All of those people who do nothing but sit in their parent's basements and play videogames. [B]What's going through their heads?[/B][/QUOTE] That what they're doing is a preferable alternative to working a dead-end job with shitty pay and long hours, maybe marry someone who will just add another facet of stress into their life, and then die miserable? Most hikkikomori do what they do because they've tasted the outside world and they [I]hated[/I] it; we're talking emotionally-vulnerable individuals who are already kinda shaky on the whole "life stages" thing, going into a job interview and getting laughed out of it, or discovering the job itself was horrible, or going on a date/asking a girl out and getting rejected hardcore. They try the game of life, get dealt a bad hand, and realize they just don't want to take another stab at it. In the end, what's so bad about their lifestyle? They get to sit at home, supported by parents who keep them around out of shame and obligation, and do whatever they want; masturbate, go for walks, spend whatever meager pay they get from allowance/odd jobs on their hobbies, talk with people on the internet (which is an ideal form of low-risk socialization.) It's not an ideal existence, but what other alternatives do they have?
[QUOTE=Psychokitten;44083810]All of those people who do nothing but sit in their parent's basements and play videogames.[/QUOTE] Sounds like they are living the dream.
[QUOTE=cecilbdemodded;44080134]We're talking about two different things here. Population level is one thing. Low birthrates lead to an older population. When the older people start dying off you don't have enough babies being born to replace them= loss of population. This 'NEET" thing has nothing to do with that. Whether young people reject corporate culture, reject employment in general, don't get educated or trained, none of that has anything to do with the birthrate and therefore nothing to do with the population level.[/QUOTE] They aren't fully different things. The birthrate is very much determined by whats happening in the culture, and NEETs are a part of the culture shift thats happening. Also NEETs generally aren't having babies
[QUOTE=J!NX;44075920]personally I'd rather they fixed their god damn sexism more.[/QUOTE] jp has a whole lot of conservative shit to sort out
[QUOTE=Valnar;44084081]They aren't fully different things. The birthrate is very much determined by whats happening in the culture, and NEETs are a part of the culture shift thats happening. Also NEETs generally aren't having babies[/QUOTE] I have to admit I assumed these NEETS you describe are primarily male. If that was true then it would not matter if they have sex(with females) or not, since it is the women who control the birthrate. If women want to have babies then the society will have babies. If some guys don't want to reproduce? So what? However, if a sizable portion of the female population is NEET, then you do have problems.
[QUOTE=Desuh;44083906]Sounds like they are living the dream.[/QUOTE] They lack the motivation to find something better. There's far better out there, believe me.
[QUOTE=Psychokitten;44085176]They lack the motivation to find something better. There's far better out there, believe me.[/QUOTE] More like they don't want to be salarymen or career women.
they'll attract all the otakus and weebs as the japanese stand there, expecting the foreigners to impregnate/become impregnated... ... they choose to cuddle with their body pillows instead
[QUOTE=Fire Kracker;44075468]they're only as xenophobic as americans are which admittedly is bad, but not as bad as you think just as many japanese like foreigners as americans like foreigners and even talk to you just to hear your accent[/QUOTE] America isn't a tiny-ass resourceless island. This may sound cynical, but the US can afford being xenophobic a lot more than Japan does.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;44074647]Same. Flowers must open up to reveal their beauty.[/QUOTE] The fuck does this mean about dandelions then?
[QUOTE=Psychokitten;44085176]They lack the motivation to find something better. [B]There's far better out there, believe me.[/B][/QUOTE] For these people, not really. Why go through all the pain and effort of finding a job or getting a girlfriend when you can just sit at home, play video-games and talk on internet forums?
[QUOTE=Canuhearme?;44085267]For these people, not really. Why go through all the pain and effort of finding a job or getting a girlfriend when you can just sit at home, play video-games and talk on internet forums?[/QUOTE] You won't get shit if you don't reach for it. The world doesn't owe anyone shit. If you want something of any significance, you'd better be prepared to work your ass off for it. And even then there's no guarantee you'll actually get it. It doesn't matter how frustrating it is. Even if you don't get what you're working for, all that hard work you put into it? That's experience. You may not get what you're looking for, but you do get something out of it. You try, you get results. Maybe what you were trying for, maybe not, but you won't accomplish shit if you don't try.
[QUOTE=cecilbdemodded;44085025]I have to admit I assumed these NEETS you describe are primarily male. If that was true then it would not matter if they have sex(with females) or not, since it is the women who control the birthrate. If women want to have babies then the society will have babies. If some guys don't want to reproduce? So what? However, if a sizable portion of the female population is NEET, then you do have problems.[/QUOTE] How would population growth strictly determined by the amount of women? Do you think most women would go and get involved in polygamous relationships if there aren't enough men? I'm also not saying that NEETs are the cause of population decline in japan, rather they more come from the same issue.
[QUOTE=Psychokitten;44085328]You won't get shit if you don't reach for it. The world doesn't owe anyone shit. If you want something of any significance, you'd better be prepared to work your ass off for it. And even then there's no guarantee you'll actually get it. It doesn't matter how frustrating it is. Even if you don't get what you're working for, all that hard work you put into it? That's experience. You may not get what you're looking for, but you do get something out of it. You try, you get results. Maybe what you were trying for, maybe not, but you won't accomplish shit if you don't try.[/QUOTE] What's the goal? What is there to reach for? If you can't see a positive future, how can you work towards it? If everyone around you says that you aren't worth anything unless you can do well on tests, and then you fail all of your important tests, the hell are you supposed to do? You're fucked. And god forbid you have some sort of crippling anxiety or learning disability. The Japanese education system is a real meat grinder. Hell, Japanese culture in general is a real meat grinder. All we're seeing are the long term effects of that kind of stress.
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;44085242]America isn't a tiny-ass resourceless island. This may sound cynical, but the US can afford being xenophobic a lot more than Japan does.[/QUOTE] what i was saying is that you'd barely find xenophobia there, like in the US you alway's hear about americans being hugely xenophobic, but if you actually go there is almost none present, and the ones that are being xenophobic are being put down by other americans, and if they are xenophobic, they'll never tell you, and you'd never even know, unless you were being loud and obnoxious it's the same in japan, and even if you know they're thinking it, they wouldn't show you or even tell you in the first place, unless you were being an obnoxious tourist the only reason that there are stores that say "no foreigners" is that there are no rules against it, in the US there are laws to prevent that, otherwise it'd be everywhere "no illegals" "no colored" it'd still be prevalent, and even today it's still there, and it will always be there as long as we all have opinions. so because you hear stories of it doesn't mean it applies to even most of the population, just the ones that are vocal
[QUOTE=Psychokitten;44085328]You won't get shit if you don't reach for it. The world doesn't owe anyone shit. If you want something of any significance, you'd better be prepared to work your ass off for it. And even then there's no guarantee you'll actually get it. It doesn't matter how frustrating it is. Even if you don't get what you're working for, all that hard work you put into it? That's experience. You may not get what you're looking for, but you do get something out of it. You try, you get results. Maybe what you were trying for, maybe not, but you won't accomplish shit if you don't try.[/QUOTE] I don't think you quite understand how the NEET mindset works. They give a couple tries at it, get rejected, and instead of going "oh well, better try again!" They say "this sucks, I'm just going home and do what I know is fun." If the world doesn't owe anyone shit, why should I give a shit about trying? I mean, consider their options; [B]Option A[/B]: Do nothing. By doing nothing, you have all the time in the world to do whatever the hell you want. Since that "whatever the hell you want" is pretty low-budget, you can probably afford it. [B]Option B[/B]: Go through the pain of rejection before finally getting a job so you can work long hours, get tired all the time, be forced to dump or severely cut back on all the fun things you did, and now have the expectation of getting a spouse (which will cut into your free/alone time even more.) It's like, if the road looks rough, why even take it? The off-chance there [I]may[/I] be a happy ending? That doesn't sound like a good deal to me.
[QUOTE=Valnar;44085461]How would population growth strictly determined by the amount of women? Do you think most women would go and get involved in polygamous relationships if there aren't enough men? I'm also not saying that NEETs are the cause of population decline in japan, rather they more come from the same issue.[/QUOTE] No, what I'm saying is if you had 10 men and 10 women you can have 10 babies as long as all ten women take part, as well as at least 1 man. You don't need a majority of the men. On the opposite side, even if ALL ten men were willing to be fathers, you won't have any more babies than the number of women willing to reproduce. If only one woman wanted to be a mother, you'd have one baby regardless of how many of the ten men wanted babies. So scale that to a country. You could lose a very large amount of fertile men and still have plenty of babies IF women wanted to reproduce. The key is if women in large numbers would rather get an education, which takes years, or build a career, which takes years, those are years you will not get babies from them. In that case, it doesn't matter whether the men are NEET or not- no babies.
[QUOTE=cecilbdemodded;44085663]No, what I'm saying is if you had 10 men and 10 women you can have 10 babies as long as all ten women take part, as well as at least 1 man. You don't need a majority of the men. On the opposite side, even if ALL ten men were willing to be fathers, you won't have any more babies than the number of women willing to reproduce. If only one woman wanted to be a mother, you'd have one baby regardless of how many of the ten men wanted babies. So scale that to a country. You could lose a very large amount of fertile men and still have plenty of babies IF women wanted to reproduce. The key is if women in large numbers would rather get an education, which takes years, or build a career, which takes years, those are years you will not get babies from them. In that case, it doesn't matter whether the men are NEET or not- no babies.[/QUOTE] Except relationships don't work that way for the vast majority of people in modern society. Yes I agree though that education for women is a major contributing factor for lowering birthrate, but not quite exactly for the reason you put it. Education for women does take time in their lives, but what education for women mostly does to stop population growth is get rid the idea that women are 'baby factories'. Which is ironic since your post was kind of arguing that women are baby factories.
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