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[QUOTE=ohadje;24179883]And just to clarify Random, there is a difference between Palestinians who live in the WB and GS to Israeli Palestinians.[/QUOTE] But they all have one thing in common, they are discriminated against. [editline]03:24PM[/editline] iktishafna il israelien, isint that right, ohadje?
[QUOTE=Splungey;24181347]I've never posted it before, you stupid little boy.[/QUOTE] I said someone, you stupid little boy. And random94 I'll respond to your big post in a few hours when I get home but I just want to say right upfront: get sources to those claims, unsourced claims are irrelevant.
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;24181946]And random94 I'll respond to your big post in a few hours when I get home but I just want to say right upfront: get sources to those claims, unsourced claims are irrelevant.[/QUOTE] Got almost all of them from wikipedia, here are your sources. [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Arabism#Israel[/url] [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_Arab#Discrimination[/url] [QUOTE=BurnEmDown;24181946]unsourced claims are irrelevant[/QUOTE] Oh the irony, try telling yourself that.
[QUOTE=Random94;24180634]Yes they might not send suicide bombers at them, but they do restrict the freedom of all the palestinians there.[/quote] Yes they might not restrict their freedom but they do send suicide bombers at them, this could go on forever. Restricting freedoms is no little thing, but sending suicide bombers is a lot worse, and they're mostly restricting freedom of movement in specific locations, which isn't like putting someone in jail over nothing. [quote]There is israeli discrimination against them regardless of what they have done, have you heard of the stories how pregnant pelestinian women who just want to go to the hospital to give birth have no choice but to give birth at the checkpoints because it would be too late for them to go back home and do that.[/quote] It's very unfortunate indeed, but I thought that recently several hospitals were built in the West Bank? Perhaps they will help ease these problems. [quote]Also the majority of arabs that do live in israel are mostly palestinians living in the west bank or gaza, and they face massive discriminaion from the jewish settlers or other jews who vandalise schools and mosques, also israel having the best living conditions in the middle east is an ignorant comment.[/quote] It does have the best living conditions, can you tell me of one other country besides Kuwait, Bahrain, Lebanon and Turkey where the Arabs can vote for their government? Just like you I'll quote Wikipedia: "As of 2010, American organization Freedom House recognizes Israel as the only fully-fledged, free electoral democracy of the Middle East." The only exception is the leaders of those countries, like those rich sonofabitches in Saudi Arabia with all of their oil, but the majority of the population lives in poverty. [quote]Also there they do face severe discreimination, for example, arab children taught in israeli schools recieve an education inferior to jewish students, they reicieve lower grades and poor preformance and thats from human rights watch. also arabs are taught hebrew as a second language while jewish students dont need to learn arabic, they obvously wish to eliminate the arabic language, something i'm against, for example, the israeli government funding is $192 per year for each arab student compared to $1,100 for each jewish student[/quote] I agree about the education funding thing, but they probably added the West Bank into the equation where the PA is responsible for these things, so the numbers may not be so true in Israel proper. Lower grades might not be because of discrimination, for example Religious Jews have their own schools and I think they receive less funding from the government but I'm pretty sure that they get higher grades overall than secular Jews. Jews are required to learn Arabic from the 7th to the 10th grade, I just finished the 12th and never spoke it after the 10th so I forgot almost everything, but Ohadje is at the 10th if I'm not mistaken and you can see for yourself that he knows Arabic, also many students continue to study it for the 11th and 12th years, two of my friends did. I don't know how the hell did you come up with the assumption that Israel is "trying to eliminate the Arab language". Because it will have to control the whole middle east, north Africa, and more to do that. [quote]also arab students are underrepresented in the student bodies and facalties in jewish universities and in higher proffesional and bussiness ranks, also nearly half of those arabs in israel who pass their high school exams fail to get to university.[/quote] Actually there's a law that requires universities to accept Arab students even if they have generally lower grades, if not enough Arab students were already accepted. Just because they don't go to universities as much, doesn't mean that it's because of discrimination. [quote]Also here are the words of an israeli politician on how he described arabs "The Arabs are worms. You find them everywhere like worms, underground as well as above" and he called them "murderers" and "terrorists" or how an israeli deputy defence minister said "What is it about Islam as a whole and the Palestinians in particular? Is it some form of cultural deprivation? Is it some genetic defect? There is something that defies explanation in this continued murderousness." or how someone once spray painted "Arabs to the crematoria" and "Arabs - sub-humans" Or how about Israeli-Arab soccer players who face chants from the crowd when they play such as "no Arabs, no terrorism".[/quote] I can't speak much for Israeli racists, unfortunately there are racists all over the world and I'm sure that there's a good number of Arab anti-semitics too. That's what you get out of a hundred-years-old conflict. [quote]or how israeli text books describe arabs as "primitiveness, inferiority in comparison to Jews" and "their violence, to characteristics like brutality, untrustworthiness, cruelty, fanaticism, treacherousness and aggressiveness".[/quote] [citataion needed] in Wikipedia. [quote]Or how about a group of 35 Jewish men, known as "Fire for Judaism", in Pisgat Ze'ev have started patrolling the town in an effort to stop Jewish women from dating Arab men, and that HALF the israeli jews bleived interacial marrige was "national treason".[/quote] Again, stupid racists from the extreme right who do not represent either the opinion of the majority of Israel or the Israeli government. [quote]Or how about a research institute poll reported that 41% of Israelis were in favour of Arab-Israeli segregation, 40% believed "the state needs to support the emigration of Arab citizens", and 63% believed Arabs to be a "security and demographic threat" to Israel and it continued to say that more than two thirds would not want to live in the same building as an Arab, 36% believed Arab culture to be inferior, and 18% felt hatred when they heard Arabic spoken or how another poll says 50% of Jewish Israelis do not believe Arab citizens of Israel should have equal rights or how 75% of Jewish youths said Arabs were less intelligent and less clean than Jews or how about that in 2008 several parents removed their children from a daycare centre in Israel after they found out that a 16 month old boy was an Arab[/quote] These polls worry me but I doubt they present the correct attitude of the Israeli public. If these polls were taken in my town for example, all of these would have been like 10-20%, in other towns I'm sure the percentages would be higher, but not as high as 40% and 50% for some outright racist beliefs. [quote]Or how about in In June 2009, Haaretz reported on the widespread phenomenon of Israeli Border Police forcing Palestinians to humiliate themselves on camera and then publishing the video on YouTube. The police forced the Palestinians to sing anti-Arab songs with lyrics such as "Let every Arab mother know that the fate of her children is in the hands of the Company". The YouTube videos are popular in Israel and have attracted many anti-Arab comments written in Hebrew such as "Stinking Arab".[/quote] I never heard about this phenomenon but I bet the high-in-command of the IDF highly disprove of it, just like the pictures the ex-soldier took and posted on Facebook and similar things, the army's officials never approve of such things, and while these thing do happen, they don't represent a policy or something like that. [quote]Actually only food, water and medical supplies are allowed into gaza, otherwise i doubt what your saying is correct, thats why the people of gaza mostly use carts, there is a scaricty of oil, also i bet the israelis ban anything other than those because who wouldnt want free resources.[/QUOTE] That's not true, only weapons and weapon-manufacturing materials aren't allowed in, and building materials are allowed in but only when humanitarian aid groups as for them, but not "private merchants". I made a lot of unsourced claims, but if you want a source or proof I'll give it to you.
[QUOTE=Warhol;24180104]I doubt a territory without a unified government and little to trade, trades with Israel. [editline]11:32AM[/editline] nice strawman bro problem is with Israel, not Palestine reactions have a beginning, stop the beginning, easy. Palestinians have chanted this from the beginning and Israel has done NOTHING.[/QUOTE] Fucking shit man. Facepunch is not your debate club.
[QUOTE=Uberman77883;24180592]That has nothing to do with anything. Palestine has done nothing but to instigate Israel. Then the world blames Israel for all the bad shit that happens. "Hey Israel I hope you liked the suicide bombers and rockets we sent to you." "I hope you like the war we start with you, Palestine" "Oh no! You are attacking Palestine with no reason at all!"[/QUOTE] Uh, maybe because Israel took their land?
[QUOTE=ohadje;24180150]Regarding Gaza: -Israel supplies it with electricity, paid by the Israeli taxpayer. -Israel supplies it with food, oil, gas, clothing and whatnot, paid by the Israeli taxpayer. -Israel allows humanitarian organizations to give aid to Gaza through the Karni crossings.[/quote] The amount of incidents and news stories say otherwise. Provide a source for this. [quote]Regarding the list of goods that are banned: You're correct, they should allow them.[/quote] They have a massive list of food that is considered luxury foods, except next to none of them are remotely luxurious. [quote]And now, let me ask you: What if Israel removes the blockade, respects the Gazan airspace but ceases any support to GS and close its' border with it? Will you be ok with that?[/quote] Gaza A: receives LITTLE support from Israel, minus a few WP bombs to a hospital of course. and B: Gaza is in a impoverished situation BECAUSE of Israel. [quote]You are ignoring the fact that the Palestinians committed terrorist acts against Israelis in between 1948-1967.[/quote] It's been nothing but a shit flinging fest since Zionist terrorists came to that land. [quote]Islamists don't really care whether Israel lets the WB independence, because they consider entire Israel to be "stolen land". See Hamas and the Islamic Jihad as nice instances.[/QUOTE] Again, it's a fucking result of Israeli occupation and oppression. are you so fucking dense that this SIMPLE concept escapes you? [editline]11:29PM[/editline] [QUOTE=Uberman77883;24180592]That has nothing to do with anything. Palestine has done nothing but to instigate Israel. Then the world blames Israel for all the bad shit that happens. "Hey Israel I hope you liked the suicide bombers and rockets we sent to you." "I hope you like the war we start with you, Palestine" "Oh no! You are attacking Palestine with no reason at all!"[/QUOTE] Irgun never did shit, tru story
[QUOTE=aydin690;24191231]Uh, maybe because Israel took their land?[/QUOTE] Maybe because they couldn't let Israel have the lands that they deserve, bought with hard-earned money?
[QUOTE=Viephemeral;24187388]Fucking shit man. Facepunch is not your debate club.[/QUOTE] So ignore 6 pages of usual debaters? nice
[QUOTE=aydin690;24191231]Uh, maybe because Israel took their land?[/QUOTE] I wasn't aware that there totally weren't any wars that the Israelis took the land legitimately from.
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;24194521]Maybe because they couldn't let Israel have the lands that they deserve, bought with hard-earned money?[/QUOTE] And blowing up hotels how does Israel deserve that land? [editline]11:32PM[/editline] [QUOTE=Uberman77883;24194552]I wasn't aware that there totally weren't any wars that the Israelis took the land legitimately from.[/QUOTE] wars STARTED by Israel.
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;24194521]Maybe because they couldn't let Israel have the lands that they deserve, bought with hard-earned money?[/QUOTE] They didn't purchase Palestine.
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;24180844]*sigh*, this again. What is it, the 8th 9th time someone posted this? Let me just summarize by saying that these maps are taken way out of context and if you look at the reasons for each "expansion" there isn't any reason why you would think Israel is "stealing lands".[/QUOTE] Iunno, murdering the occupants and taking the land sounds like stealing to me. oh, but stealing ain't shit when it comes to Israel, because they're never at fault. FREE ISRAEL!
[QUOTE=Warhol;24194556]And blowing up hotels how does Israel deserve that land?[/QUOTE] I'm talking about the original land that was given to it in the 1947 partition plan: because they bought it.
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;24194647]I'm talking about the original land that was given to it in the 1947 partition plan: because they bought it.[/QUOTE] lol, what the fuck? this is the first time I ever heard land was purchased. From you as well. Not only that, people were fucking living there. You can't buy land while people already own it.
[QUOTE=starpluck;24194597]They didn't purchase Palestine.[/QUOTE] They purchased quite a bit and then the Arabs didn't want them to keep what they bought so they started a war with them, lost, and Israel turned up with more lands to begin with, what's so hard to understand? [editline]01:36AM[/editline] [QUOTE=Warhol;24194667]lol, what the fuck? this is the first time I ever heard land was purchased. From you as well. Not only that, people were fucking living there. You can't buy land while people already own it.[/QUOTE] You've got some reading to do: [url]http://www.middleeastpiece.com/dispossession_intro.html[/url]
[QUOTE=Warhol;24194556]And blowing up hotels how does Israel deserve that land? [editline]11:32PM[/editline] wars STARTED by Israel.[/QUOTE] I didn't know that 6 countries declaring war on israel meant israel started a war. [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab%E2%80%93Israeli_conflict[/url] [img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/39/Israel_and_arab_states_map.png/300px-Israel_and_arab_states_map.png[/img] See all that green? Those are all the countries that have attacked Israel. Israel rarely starts wars.
BurnEmDown, they only owned 8% of Palestine. Also, land ownership doesn't mean you can make a country.
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;24194674]They purchased quite a bit and then the Arabs didn't want them to keep what they bought so they started a war with them, lost, and Israel turned up with more lands to begin with, what's so hard to understand?[/quote] again, you can't buy land while people own it. [quote]You've got some reading to do: [url]http://www.middleeastpiece.com/dispossession_intro.html[/url][/QUOTE] I still don't see how the land was legally purchased.
Uberman get the fuck out only Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Iraq and Saudi Arabia attacked Israel at '48.
I hope you're joking about the map thing.
[QUOTE=starpluck;24194822]BurnEmDown, they only owned 8% of Palestine. Also, land ownership doesn't mean you can make a country.[/QUOTE] How about an approval from the UN?
[QUOTE=Uberman77883;24194721]I didn't know that 6 countries declaring war on israel meant israel started a war. [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab%E2%80%93Israeli_conflict[/url] [img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/39/Israel_and_arab_states_map.png/300px-Israel_and_arab_states_map.png[/img] See all that green? Those are all the countries that have attacked Israel. Israel rarely starts wars.[/QUOTE] That was, AGAIN, a result of Zionist terrorists stealing land.
[QUOTE=starpluck;24194836]I hope you're joking about the map thing.[/QUOTE] I'm not. All of those countries are apart of the Arab Nations. The Arab Nations contributed to the war effort against Israel.
[QUOTE=Warhol;24194830]again, you can't buy land while people own it.[/quote] They bought it from the people owning it DUUUUUUUUUUUUH. [quote]I still don't see how the land was legally purchased.[/QUOTE] They gave the people who owned it money, and in exchange the people who owned it transferred the ownership to the Jews, it's simple really, I just forgot you're kind of slow on learning basic human interactions.
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;24194840]How about an approval from the UN?[/QUOTE] The UN, while a good system, and under different leadership back then, doesn't really hold much authority over countries. So it's a non sequitor.
[QUOTE=Warhol;24194882]The UN, while a good system, and under different leadership back then, doesn't really hold much authority over countries. So it's a non sequitor.[/QUOTE] Yeah except these lands weren't countries so it did have authority. I guess that you consider all those countries in Africa that were created by the UN to be illegal too, right?
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;24194877]They bought it from the people owning it DUUUUUUUUUUUUH. They gave the people who owned it money, and in exchange the people who owned it transferred the ownership to the Jews, it's simple really, I just forgot you're kind of slow on learning basic human interactions.[/QUOTE] You didn't really read the source did you? LOL THIS PROVES ME RIGHT UR STUPID EXCEPT "source doesn't prove him right" /directed by m nigt shamalan
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;24194840]How about an approval from the UN?[/QUOTE] There's no sense or logic in bumping 8% to 55% even though the Jews were the minority, they got the most land. Don't bring up "They had no usable land" thing
[QUOTE=Warhol;24194852]That was, AGAIN, a result of Zionist terrorists stealing land.[/QUOTE] Now you call Israel Zionist terrorists? I didn't know the UN were zionist terrorists. Oh and by the way, here is a little information for you. [img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/e/e1/SbarroAfter1.jpg/200px-SbarroAfter1.jpg[/img] [quote]Sbarro pizza restaurant bombing in Jerusalem, in which 15 Israeli civilians were killed and 130 wounded. Hamas said that the attack was in response to Israel's targeted killing of two leading Hamas commanders in Nablus, Jamal Mansour and Omar Mansour.[/quote] I didn't know that Israel killing Hamas members is oppression and terrorism.
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