• John Bolton: Israel only has 8 days to strike Iran
    439 replies, posted
[QUOTE=POLOPOZOZO;24199783]^Oh shit guys armchair general in the house.[/QUOTE] He might be over-exaggerating but he has a point. Iran has repeatedly said that they will retaliate if israel attacks them. Their military might not be the best in the world but you gotta remember [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Current_Equipment_of_the_Iranian_Army"]they still have shit load of f14's[/URL] and [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_military_equipment_manufactured_in_Iran"]a pretty impressive range of medium range ballistic weapons[/URL]. Also, they fight dirty. Hezbullah, hamas and shit load of other islamic groups are on iran's payroll so they can seriously mess with israel.
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;24187104]Yes they might not restrict their freedom but they do send suicide bombers at them this could, go on forever. Restricting freedoms is no little thing, but sending suicide bombers is a lot worse[/QUOTE] Now, which is more destructive, a suicide bomber's bomb, or tank and artillery shells, missles and bombs dropped from planes, you decide. [QUOTE=BurnEmDown;24187104]and they're mostly restricting freedom of movement in specific locations, which isn't like putting someone in jail over nothing.[/QUOTE] Apperantly their wall plans contradict what you are saying. [url]http://israelipalestinian.procon.org/files/IsPal%20Images/thewall.jpg[/url] [QUOTE=BurnEmDown;24187104]It's very unfortunate indeed, but I thought that recently several hospitals were built in the West Bank? Perhaps they will help ease these problems.[/QUOTE] Nope, did a websearch,didint find many, despite the west bank having a population of 2,514,845 as of june 2010. [QUOTE=BurnEmDown;24187104]It does have the best living conditions, can you tell me of one other country besides Kuwait, Bahrain, Lebanon and Turkey where the Arabs can vote for their government? Just like you I'll quote Wikipedia: "As of 2010, American organization Freedom House recognizes Israel as the only fully-fledged, free electoral democracy of the Middle East."[/QUOTE] Democracy dosent detirmine who has the best living conditions and who dosent, also kuwait is a constitutional monarchy, only members of parliment get elected, but the emir has pretty much all of the power in the country but he is busy sitiing on his fat ass with his 50,000000 KD monthly Paycheck letting that failure of a government body do the decsisions, so i have seen democracy in practice, and i see it as nothing more than an incompetent incefficient government system, also lebeonese government is having trouble in over there with hezbolla, if they were a more organised system they would have handled the problem a long time ago, also do you know who has the highest GDP in the middle east, your enimies and ours also ,Iran which happens to have a GDP of 876 Billion dollars. [QUOTE=BurnEmDown;24187104]The only exception is the leaders of those countries, like those rich sonofabitches in Saudi Arabia with all of their oil, but the majority of the population lives in poverty.[/QUOTE] Oh you would be suprised, they do have nice living conditions over there thanks to their oil money. [QUOTE=BurnEmDown;24187104]I agree about the education funding thing, but they probably added the West Bank into the equation where the PA is responsible for these things, so the numbers may not be so true in Israel proper. Lower grades might not be because of discrimination, for example Religious Jews have their own schools and I think they receive less funding from the government. but I'm pretty sure that they get higher grades overall than secular Jews. Jews are required to learn Arabic from the 7th to the 10th grade, I just finished the 12th and never spoke it after the 10th so I forgot almost everything, but Ohadje is at the 10th if I'm not mistaken and you can see for yourself that he knows Arabic, also many students continue to study it for the 11th and 12th years, two of my friends did.[/QUOTE] Thats not what the statictics say, Arab educators have long voiced concerns over institutionalized budgetary discrimination in the the israeli government's education sector, how on earth do think those arabs got low grades if they get less education materials than jewish ones do and they get the same education plan [QUOTE=BurnEmDown;24187104]I don't know how the hell did you come up with the assumption that Israel is "trying to eliminate the Arab language". Because it will have to control the whole middle east, north Africa, and more to do that.[/QUOTE] I think they want to eliminate it only in palesine, and thats what i meant, also with those israeli settlers spreading israels territory, by forcing the arabs out, the israeli government will give the same education curriulum to the arab children in the occupied territories and apperantly Arabic is not obligatory for Hebrew speaking school's matriculation exams, while arabs need to learn hebrew, also the fact that the arabic courses are forgetabble worries me even more. [QUOTE=BurnEmDown;24187104]Actually there's a law that requires universities to accept Arab students even if they have generally lower grades, if not enough Arab students were already accepted. Just because they don't go to universities as much, doesn't mean that it's because of discrimination.[/QUOTE] No, i said half of those who do pass their tests fail to get into university, they have all of the qualifications but fail to get in, there obviosuly is a bias there. [QUOTE=BurnEmDown;24187104]That's what you get out of a hundred-years-old conflict.[/QUOTE] Actually it would be a hundred years conflict if the year was 2048. [QUOTE=BurnEmDown;24187104]These polls worry me but I doubt they present the correct attitude of the Israeli public. If these polls were taken in my town for example, all of these would have been like 10-20%, in other towns I'm sure the percentages would be higher, but not as high as 40% and 50% for some outright racist beliefs.[/QUOTE] The polls say the contrary. [QUOTE=BurnEmDown;24187104]I never heard about this phenomenon but I bet the high-in-command of the IDF highly disprove of it, just like the pictures the ex-soldier took and posted on Facebook and similar things, the army's officials never approve of such things, and while these thing do happen, they don't represent a policy or something like that.[/QUOTE] Well i do remmeber a bbc or a cnn report once that an israeli soldier said once that every soldier is commanded to "shoot first, think later" no wonder why so many palestinians are killed. [QUOTE=BurnEmDown;24187104]That's not true, only weapons and weapon-manufacturing materials aren't allowed in, and building materials are allowed in but only when humanitarian aid groups as for them, but not "private merchants".[/QUOTE] No the israeli government banned them regardless of who wants to bring them in, i watched a CNN report about it they are not allowed to bring in "weapon manufacturing materials" apperantly coffee beans and chocolate were listed as banned items, how the hell can someone make a bomb out of those.
[QUOTE=Random94;24204918]Now, which is more destructive, a suicide bomber's bomb, or tank and artillery shells, missles and bombs dropped from planes, you decide.[/quote] Yeah but Israel is trying its best to use their military against other military personnel/facilities/etc., while the Hamas and until a few years ago the Fatah tried their best to use their "military" against civilians. [quote]Apperantly their wall plans contradict what you are saying. [url]http://israelipalestinian.procon.org/files/IsPal%20Images/thewall.jpg[/url][/quote] How are they contradicting? It's not like they could enter Israel whenever they pleased before the wall, there were military patrols along the borders, and they had to pass security checks too. [quote]Nope, did a websearch,didint find many, despite the west bank having a population of 2,514,845 as of june 2010.[/quote] I must have been mistaken then. Unfortunate indeed. [quote]Democracy dosent detirmine who has the best living conditions and who dosent, also kuwait is a constitutional monarchy, only members of parliment get elected, but the emir has pretty much all of the power in the country but he is busy sitiing on his fat ass with his 50,000000 KD monthly Paycheck letting that failure of a government body do the decsisions, so i have seen democracy in practice, and i see it as nothing more than an incompetent incefficient government system, also lebeonese government is having trouble in over there with hezbolla, if they were a more organised system they would have handled the problem a long time ago, also do you know who has the highest GDP in the middle east, your enimies and ours also ,Iran which happens to have a GDP of 876 Billion dollars.[/quote] Yes but democracy implies rights and freedoms, like the freedom of sexuality or the freedom of speech which is quite lacking in Iran. Lebanon is a democracy, It's true that Hezbollah has a lot of control over there but it's not the democratic system's fault. I'm no expert but I think that it's because too many people support Hezbollah and not enough people want to get rid of them. With enough support anything is possible. Also Didn't know about Kuwait's monarchy, I just copy/pasted from another website, I guess that it's safe to assume that it has a lot of freedoms like a normal democracy though, right? [quote]Oh you would be suprised, they do have nice living conditions over there thanks to their oil money.[/quote] I wouldn't, I know they're rich beyond our imaginations. [quote]Thats not what the statictics say, Arab educators have long voiced concerns over institutionalized budgetary discrimination in the the israeli government's education sector, how on earth do think those arabs got low grades if they get less education materials than jewish ones do and they get the same education plan[/quote] Statistics can easily be manipulated into showing the result you want, and they're always "just an assumption". When you ask 3000 people a yes/no question and half of them say yes while the other say no, you can't just decide that half of the world would say yes and the other would say no, but that's what statistics do. Statistics are like stereotypes: If enough people of a certain group say one thing, they assume the majority of the group thinks this way too. I never said they receive the same budget, I just assumed that they added the West Bank into the equation or something, because it can't possibly be that big of a difference. [quote]I think they want to eliminate it only in palesine, and thats what i meant, also with those israeli settlers spreading israels territory, by forcing the arabs out, the israeli government will give the same education curriulum to the arab children in the occupied territories and apperantly Arabic is not obligatory for Hebrew speaking school's matriculation exams, while arabs need to learn hebrew, also the fact that the arabic courses are forgetabble worries me even more.[/quote] I doubt that there are many "mixed schools" in the West Bank since the Israelis living there are extremely religious and racist, they would never agree to put their children in the same school as Arab children. Also, if Israel wanted to destroy Arabic in Palestine, it wouldn't have chose it as a second official language (while English isn't even an official language). [quote]No, i said half of those who do pass their tests fail to get into university, they have all of the qualifications but fail to get in, there obviosuly is a bias there.[/quote] That's the thing with universities, usually a lot of students pass the "fixed" score that is needed, but more students pass than is needed, so the universities just pick the ones with the best scores. I'm actually waiting to see if I got accepted right now, I passed the required mark with ease, but perhaps there would be so many students that passed it too and got a better grade than me, that I wouldn't be accepted. [quote]Actually it would be a hundred years conflict if the year was 2048.[/quote] The latest date I'd say the conflict started in is in the '20s, but it's safe to say that it started even before, in the start of WWI. [quote]The polls say the contrary.[/quote] Again what I said about statistics, polls and statistics are not exact sciences and they can easily be twisted to show a different reality, according to what the poll taker wants to do. [quote]Well i do remmeber a bbc or a cnn report once that an israeli soldier said once that every soldier is commanded to "shoot first, think later" no wonder why so many palestinians are killed.[/quote] Perhaps it was some kind of a special operation, or you just confused the whole thing. [quote]No the israeli government banned them regardless of who wants to bring them in, i watched a CNN report about it they are not allowed to bring in "weapon manufacturing materials" apperantly coffee beans and chocolate were listed as banned items, how the hell can someone make a bomb out of those.[/QUOTE] These are luxury items that the Gazan people don't even need, they need basic food supplies, and Israel banned these things because a blockading belligerent is allowed to blockade everything other than basic humanitarian aid, so Israel did just that because it thought it would be easier to prevent weapons from getting in. Sometimes these think would get in though, and only the powerful and the rich, that is, the Hamas, would get them, so why would Israel let them in anyway? Regardless of that, Israel is already allowing everything in now, except for the things I've listed. What you saw was before the change, where Israel decided to have a list of "goods not allowed" instead of a list of "goods allowed", which is a big difference.
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;24205636]Yeah but Israel is trying its best to use their military against other military personnel/facilities/etc., while the Hamas and until a few years ago the Fatah tried their best to use their "military" against civilians.[/QUOTE] But in the end, what happens, despite the israelis having capabilaties to not cause great destruction in urban areas they choose not to do so and cheap but heavily destructive measures, and in the end more civilains are killed than hamas operatives, also i dont think they diliveratley want to kill civilains but just to demoralise you guys, also tell me how many israelis died as a result of rocket attacks compared to palistinian civilians that died in israeli bombings hardly any compared to the death toll in gaza. [QUOTE=BurnEmDown;24205636]How are they contradicting? It's not like they could enter Israel whenever they pleased before the wall, there were military patrols along the borders, and they had to pass security checks too.[/QUOTE] But unfortunatley those check points rarley open, and the people who usually cross them are palestinian civilians rather than hamas or fatah fighters, hell, i bet they have their own secret way of entering israel, dont assume such organisations are stupid, therefore these checkpoints moslty do nothing more than distrubt palestinian lives. [QUOTE=BurnEmDown;24205636]Yes but democracy implies rights and freedoms, like the freedom of sexuality or the freedom of speech which is quite lacking in Iran. Lebanon is a democracy, It's true that Hezbollah has a lot of control over there but it's not the democratic system's fault. I'm no expert but I think that it's because too many people support Hezbollah and not enough people want to get rid of them. With enough support anything is possible. Also Didn't know about Kuwait's monarchy, I just copy/pasted from another website, I guess that it's safe to assume that it has a lot of freedoms like a normal democracy though, right?[/QUOTE] Yea, you can say that, but the only democracy is an inefficient parliment that is divided, its a talk shop and cant get stuff done, literally, but also an autacracy can also have the same rights, there have been benevolent despots and kings. [QUOTE=BurnEmDown;24205636]Statistics can easily be manipulated into showing the result you want, and they're always "just an assumption". When you ask 3000 people a yes/no question and half of them say yes while the other say no, you can't just decide that half of the world would say yes and the other would say no, but that's what statistics do. Statistics are like stereotypes: If enough people of a certain group say one thing, they assume the majority of the group thinks this way too.[/QUOTE] But if several statistics from different organisations say so, it must be true. [QUOTE=BurnEmDown;24205636]I never said they receive the same budget, I just assumed that they added the West Bank into the equation or something, because it can't possibly be that big of a difference.[/QUOTE] As i said an individual arab student recieves $908 less than an individual jewish student in funding in the israeli education system, isint that a big difference, just think of the education materials you can get with that for each student plus the $192. [QUOTE=BurnEmDown;24205636]That's the thing with universities, usually a lot of students pass the "fixed" score that is needed, but more students pass than is needed, so the universities just pick the ones with the best scores.[/QUOTE] but due to the budget cuts for arab students they will know less than jewish ones which therfore results in them getting medicore or poor test results compared to a jewish student also heres Human rights watch said: "Government-run Arab schools are a world apart from government-run Jewish schools. In virtually every respect, Palestinian Arab children get an education inferior to that of Jewish children, and their relatively poor performance in school reflects this." The report found striking differences in virtually every aspect of the education system.Government-run Arab schools are a world apart from government-run Jewish schools. In virtually every respect, Palestinian Arab children get an education inferior to that of Jewish children, and their relatively poor performance in school reflects this." The report found striking differences in virtually every aspect of the education system. [QUOTE=BurnEmDown;24205636]The latest date I'd say the conflict started in is in the '20s, but it's safe to say that it started even before, in the start of WWI.[/QUOTE] Dude, WW1 started in 1914, also the tensions started in the 20's generally in the times that zoinisim started becoming popular among jews. [QUOTE=BurnEmDown;24205636]Again what I said about statistics, polls and statistics are not exact sciences and they can easily be twisted to show a different reality, according to what the poll taker wants to do.[/QUOTE] Nope, that is raw evidence and as i said previously, Offical organisations took these results, they are just showing the truth, hell even a US department, your allies took the statistics and human rights watch also voiced a concern about israelis treatment of Arabs. [QUOTE=BurnEmDown;24205636]Perhaps it was some kind of a special operation, or you just confused the whole thing.[/QUOTE] The guy talked about the attack on gaza in 2008-2009, that obviously wasnt a special operation. [QUOTE=BurnEmDown;24205636]These are luxury items that the Gazan people don't even need, they need basic food supplies, and Israel banned these things because a blockading belligerent is allowed to blockade everything other than basic humanitarian aid, so Israel did just that because it thought it would be easier to prevent weapons from getting in. Sometimes these think would get in though, and only the powerful and the rich, that is, the Hamas, would get them, so why would Israel let them in anyway? Regardless of that, Israel is already allowing everything in now, except for the things I've listed. What you saw was before the change, where Israel decided to have a list of "goods not allowed" instead of a list of "goods allowed", which is a big difference.[/QUOTE] But if a humanitarian organisation shipped such goods to them the people of gaza do deserve the right to receive them, the israelis shouldnt ban them, also no, they still banned the things required for the gazans to rebuild such as building materials, those guys are living in the ruins of their own houses, how can freaking building material be a luxury.
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;24205636]Yeah but Israel is trying its best to use their military against other military personnel/facilities/etc.[/QUOTE] Like hospitals right?
[QUOTE=Warhol;24207104]Like hospitals right?[/QUOTE] Depending if there's Hamas members in them launching rockets and stuff, you know, like they usually do.
except they're not. You know, like the last time when the UN confirmed there weren't. let me guess, the UN is oppressing Israel? FREE ISRAEL, FUCK PALESTINIAN ANIMALS
[QUOTE=Random94;24204918]Apperantly their wall plans contradict what you are saying. [URL]http://israelipalestinian.procon.org/files/IsPal%20Images/thewall.jpg[/URL][/QUOTE] I expected a Facebook link
[QUOTE=Warhol;24207486]except they're not. You know, like the last time when the UN confirmed there weren't. let me guess, the UN is oppressing Israel? FREE ISRAEL, FUCK PALESTINIAN ANIMALS[/QUOTE] If you bring the specific case I'll show you you're wrong. And even if not, it could have been a missed shot or something like that.
Oh boy, this is going to be really fun. warhol [QUOTE]The amount of incidents and news stories say otherwise. Provide a source for this.[/QUOTE] 1. Electricity: "Gaza ‘s power supply comes from three sources. This week it receives 17 megawatts from Egypt, 108 megawatts from Israel and 55 megawatts generated by its own power plant. This amounts to 180 megawatts, or 75 per cent of its estimated demand of 240 megawatts." [url=http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:iEaSdln-uNwJ:www.ochaopt.org/documents/Gaza%2520Feb_08_2008.pdf+Israel+Gaza+Strip+Electricity&hl=iw&gl=il&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESjPyvLV6e_vcZqufH48mSx_wCFTDTWRuRiyDsOrBMgl5kjGdr0OCbtTHxrCmp38Do543Hsou9v0Yzc-2xaDOEn4fU5_BjiiPnvdTTh-huSgEVLPx0EgztRtgTYSN4t3If2x_IKa&sig=AHIEtbS1zp7m9JBvMJK_j-BMNSDGJt0X7Q]Electricity Shortages in the Gaza Strip: Situation Report [UN report][/url] "Total electrical energy purchases in the Palestinian Territory in 2008 reached 4,275,121 MWh; 2,799,990 MWh in the West Bank (2,735,650 MWh from Israel and 64,340 MWh from Jordan) and 1,475,132 MWh in Gaza Strip (930,450 MWh imported from Israel and 410,312 MWh produced by the Palestinian Electric Company and 134,370 MWh from Egypt)." [url=http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:O924oC91nzMJ:www.pcbs.gov.ps/Portals/_pcbs/PressRelease/energy_08_E.pdf+pbcs+palestine+ELECTRCITY&hl=iw&gl=il&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESh3uTywy07RWfYqDX6-l-GVHaot-vbCgAEvsNEuJfby78s6tywAlC_4GhQuTJjHJgrcw4ICnhFiaNvwRPSFN-wnW5ppK8aJ_xuxi6zMQF6bEB6ELz7_sB4yLtrxFzR10sTJCyWF&sig=AHIEtbSBxCzuDTODlg6l5f2XplqDYu9GMQ]Palestinian Central Bureau of Statistics [of the Palestinian Authority] report[/url] "Israel supplies the Gaza Strip with electricity." [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_Strip#Economy]Wikipedia[/url] Another [url=https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://www.ochaopt.org/documents/ocha_opt_gaza_electricity_crisis_2010_05_17.pdf&embedded=true]report[/url] of the UN regarding that. 2. Gas, food and medicine: Israel allows Palestinians to enter Israel for medical support: "Israel has cut back on issuing permits to enter the country for the hundreds of patients each month who need immediate life-saving treatment and urgent, advanced treatment unavailable in Gaza. The only crossing open to patients is Erez Crossing, through which Israel allows some of these patients to cross to go to hospitals inside Israel, and to treatment facilities in the West Bank, Egypt, and Jordan. Some patients not allowed to cross have referrals to Israeli hospitals or other hospitals. Since Hamas took over control of the Gaza Strip, the number of patients forbidden to leave Gaza “for security reasons” has steadily increased." [url=http://www.btselem.org/english/gaza_strip/medical_system.asp[/url]B'Tselem[/url] And since we had so much fun, so far, using pro-Palestinian sources, lets use some pro-Israeli sources, just to balance things up: "Weekly summary of the Gaza crossings: 8-14 August 2010 - 1134 truckloads (25,741 tons) of goods, were transferred to the Gaza Strip. - 1,123,475 liters of heavy-duty diesel for the Gaza power station, 211,999 liters of diesel fuel and 44,750 liters of gasoline for transportation (UNRWA), and 880 tons of cooking gas were delivered via Kerem Shalom crossing. - 310 Gaza residents (patients and their companions) entered or passed through Israel for medical treatment via Erez Crossing. Weekly summary of the Gaza crossings: 1-5 August 2010 - 1166 truckloads (23,297 tons) of goods, were transferred to the Gaza Strip. - 806,006 liters of heavy-duty diesel for the Gaza power station, 34,999 liters of gasoline for transportation, and 667 tons of cooking gas were delivered via Kerem Shalom crossing. - 324 Gaza residents (patients and their companions) entered or passed through Israel for medical treatment via Erez Crossing." [url=http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/Terrorism-+Obstacle+to+Peace/Hamas+war+against+Israel/New_government_policy_brings_more_goods_to_Gaza_June_2010.htm]Source[/url] Notice the date, it happened just a week ago. Next. [quote]Gaza A: receives LITTLE support from Israel, minus a few WP bombs to a hospital of course. and B: Gaza is in a impoverished situation BECAUSE of Israel. [/quote] I vehemently refuted it above. Without the Israeli support the situation will be simple: Many Gazans will die due to lack of electricity, water, food and medical support. The smuggling of the Gaza-Egypt tunnels simply cannot suffice the need of goods the residents of Gaza strip need to live honorable lives. It is logical to predict that once the blockade will be removed and the aid of Israel to Gaza will halt, the amount of the tunnels and smuggling attempts from the GS to Egypt will increase. The problem is that the Egyptians are not sympathetic to the Palestinians at a level they'll allow them to increase the tunnel activity any further. Lets face it: Gaza Strip needs Israel to survive. It cannot self sustain as it is, it has a higher chance to survive only as a part of a Palestinians state united with the WB and recognized as legitimate by the world - and even then, the survival of the Palestinian state in the economic and civic aspect is seriously in a doubt due to the many political rival sections that the current Palestinian politics contain. [quote]Again, it's a :wub:ing result of Israeli occupation and oppression. [/quote] It seems you have no grasp of the historical context of these events. Israel was officially founded at the year of 1948, and since then, Palestinian terrorists - backed up by the Egyptian and Jordanian governments - called Fadiyun (in Arabic pronunciation) or Fedayeen, launched attacks against Israeli civilians on a daily basic. Let me remind you that these terrorists did not live in Israel proper - but came from Egypt and Jordan. The Israeli occupation and "oppression" began 19 years later, and until that the Palestinian terrorists have murdered dozens of Israeli civilians, only because to them, entire Israel is Palestine (and I bet you share their view). This proves that the claim that the terrorism began because of the Israeli occupation is bollocks. No doubt, the Israeli control caused some dissent among Palestinians and might have encouraged Palestinians to inflict in murderous acts against innocents, but it isn't the sole reason - as history demonstrates. For further reading: [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_fedayeen[/url] "Between 1951 and 1956, 400 Israelis were killed and 900 wounded by fedayeen attacks. [4] [5]" [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_political_violence#Partition_of_Palestine_to_establishment_of_PLO_.281947.E2.80.931964.29]Source[/url] [quote]How the :wub: do you get that? It's not a country so it falls under UN law? [/quote] You are being ridiculous. The mandate of Palestine was followed by the 1919 Paris peace treaty - and was under the sponsorship of the League of Nations. Layman speaking - Palestine was a League of Nations territory administrated by Great Britain through the mandate given to it at 1919-1920. After the LoN was disbanded and replaced by the UN, this responsibility was passed unto the UN and by that it had an authority over Palestine. By the way, in 1922 - after Palestine was divided to Palestine (the current "Palestine") and Transjordan (that is today's Jordan), the Balfour decleration of 1917 became official with accordance of the British and the LoN ([url=http://www.sacredheart.edu/pages/12724_balfour_declaration_november_2_1917_league_of_nations_palestine_mandate_july_24_1922_.cfm]Source[/url] [quote]lol, I don't think the Kind David massacre was by Arabs. This is a really biased and unsourced statement. The amount of innocent settlers slaughtered by Ben Gurion and his crew[/quote] The vast majority of attacks were against Jewish villages and towns, which directly led to the establishing of the Jewish parliamentary armed groups. Fact is, most of the activities of the Irgun and the LEHI (which was declared terrorist by the first Israeli government) was against the British administration, not against the Arabs - although /those posed a larger threat to the Jewish settlements in Israel/Palestine. And nice to see your strawman-o-meter is working well. starpluck [quote]The first terrorism related attack was perputated by the Zionists.[/quote] That's a blatant lie, but you probably know that. The Jewish settlements suffered from Arab gangs attacks since 1881, which eventually caused the Jewish leadership created the "Bar Giora" organization, dedicated to defend against Arab gangs attacks on Jewish villages and roads. "Bar Giora" later became "HaShomer" - which later became "Haganah". But I'll give you firmer examples of Arab terrorism against Jews that pre-dated the Irgun (1931) and the LEHI (1940): [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1920_Palestine_riots]1920 Palestine riots[/url] "By 10:30 a.m. on April 4, 1920, 60,000–70,000 Arabs had already congregated in the city square, and groups of them had already been attacking Jews in the Old City's alleys for over an hour; the Jews hid. Inflammatory anti-Zionist rhetoric was being delivered from the balcony of the Arab Club. One inciter was Hajj Amin al-Husayni; his uncle, the mayor, spoke from the municipal building's balcony. The editor of the newspaper Suriya al-Janubia (Southern Syria), Aref al-Aref, delivered his speech on horseback. The crowd shouted "Independence! Independence!" and "Palestine is our land, the Jews are our dogs!"[3] Arab police joined in applause, and violence started.[9] The Arab mob ransacked the Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem, attacked pedestrians and looted shops and homes. They ripped open their quilts and pillows, sending up clouds of feathers associated by Jews with the European pogroms. The Torath Chaim Yeshiva was raided, and Torah scrolls were torn and thrown on the floor, and the building then set alight.[3] During the next three hours, 160 Jews were wounded.[9]" .... "Khalil al-Sakakini witnessed the eruption of violence in the Old City: "[A] riot broke out, the people began to run about and stones were thrown at the Jews. The shops were closed and there were screams... I saw a Zionist soldier covered in dust and blood... Afterwards, I saw one Hebronite approach a Jewish shoeshine boy, who hid behind a sack in one of the wall's comers next to Jaffa Gate, and take his box and beat him over the head. He screamed and began to run, his head bleeding and the Hebronite left him and returned to the procession... The riot reached its zenith. All shouted, "Muhammad's religion was born with the sword"... I immediately walked to the municipal garden... my soul is nauseated and depressed by the madness of humankind."[10]" [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaffa_riots]Jaffa riots (1921)[/url] "On the night before 1 May 1921, the Jewish Communist Party (precursor of the Palestine Communist Party) distributed Arabic and Yiddish fliers calling for the toppling of British rule and the establishing a "Soviet Palestine". The party announced its intention to parade from Jaffa to neighbouring Tel Aviv to commemorate May Day. On the morning of the parade, despite a warning to the 60 members present from one of Jaffa's most senior police officers, Toufiq Bey al-Said, who visited the party's headquarters, the march headed from Jaffa to Tel Aviv through the mixed Jewish-Arab border neighbourhood of Menashia (Manshiyya).[1]" "They beat and killed Jews in their homes, including children, and in some cases split open the victims' skulls.[1]" "The riot resulted in the deaths of 47 Jews and 48 Arabs, with 146 Jews and 73 Arabs being wounded. Most Arab casualties resulted from clashes with [I][B]British forces[/B] attempting to restore order[/I].[5]" And... most notorious, the [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1929_Palestine_riots]1929 Palestine riots[/url], which included, among other terror attacks and pogroms: -Sefad massacre: "The 1929 Safed massacre took place on 29 August during the 1929 Palestine riots. Eighteen Jews were killed (some sources say twenty) and eighty wounded.[1] The main Jewish street was looted and burned.[2][3]" -Hebron massacre: "In total, 67 Jews were killed in Hebron; 59 died during the riots and 8 more succumbed to their wounds later. The remaining members, save one woman who refused to go, were placed on trucks and delivered to Jerusalem and all their property was seized by the Arabs.[16] Most of those killed were Ashkenazi men, but there were also a dozen women and three children under the age of three. Seven of the victims were yeshiva students from the United States and Canada. Dozens of people were wounded, including many women and children. Several cases of rape, mutilation and torture were reported in the Jewish press.[6] These claims were contested by Arab spokesmen. When the bodies were exhumed no conclusions could be made one way or another.[17]" Seriously.
[QUOTE=ohadje;24208186]Oh boy, this is going to be really fun.[/QUOTE] Chops: busted
[QUOTE=ohadje;24208186]*bigass post*[/QUOTE] Warhol: "yeah but the Zionists are Racists terrorists so who cares". [editline]04:55PM[/editline] [QUOTE=Random94;24207046]But in the end, what happens, despite the israelis having capabilaties to not cause great destruction in urban areas they choose not to do so and cheap but heavily destructive measures, and in the end more civilains are killed than hamas operatives, also i dont think they diliveratley want to kill civilains but just to demoralise you guys, also tell me how many israelis died as a result of rocket attacks compared to palistinian civilians that died in israeli bombings hardly any compared to the death toll in gaza.[/quote] Yeah but if you factor in the deaths from suicide bombings then the deaths are pretty even. I know their goal is to demoralize, there's terrorism in a nutshell - Attack your enemy's weak spot no matter what it is so he'll have to stop or do what you want. Also, Israel cancelled many attacks and bombings due to civilians being in the way. There was a chance to kill the head of the Hamas on the 2nd day of the Gaza war if I'm not mistaken, but he was with his family, so Israel chose not to do it. If Israel would have chosen the "kill all Hamas even if civilians will be in the way" option, Gaza would have been a ghost town. [quote]But unfortunatley those check points rarley open, and the people who usually cross them are palestinian civilians rather than hamas or fatah fighters, hell, i bet they have their own secret way of entering israel, dont assume such organisations are stupid, therefore these checkpoints moslty do nothing more than distrubt palestinian lives.[/quote] They do have a way, since practically all suicide bombings have stopped in areas where the wall is built, they just go to areas where it still wasn't built. If there wasn't such strong security then they'd try to cross through anyway and then the walls wouldn't do shit. [quote]Yea, you can say that, but the only democracy is an inefficient parliment that is divided, its a talk shop and cant get stuff done, literally, but also an autacracy can also have the same rights, there have been benevolent despots and kings.[/quote] I didn't really understand what you meant here. [quote]But if several statistics from different organisations say so, it must be true.[/quote] I looked at Wikipedia and there was only one group who conducted the poll, can't remember which one was it though. [quote]As i said an individual arab student recieves $908 less than an individual jewish student in funding in the israeli education system, isint that a big difference, just think of the education materials you can get with that for each student plus the $192.[/quote] What I meant was that there's no way that these numbers are real. I'd say Arabs get about 70 or 65 percent of the fundings Jews get, which is still no little difference. [quote]but due to the budget cuts for arab students they will know less than jewish ones which therfore results in them getting medicore or poor test results compared to a jewish student also heres Human rights watch said: "Government-run Arab schools are a world apart from government-run Jewish schools. In virtually every respect, Palestinian Arab children get an education inferior to that of Jewish children, and their relatively poor performance in school reflects this." The report found striking differences in virtually every aspect of the education system.Government-run Arab schools are a world apart from government-run Jewish schools. In virtually every respect, Palestinian Arab children get an education inferior to that of Jewish children, and their relatively poor performance in school reflects this." The report found striking differences in virtually every aspect of the education system.[/quote] Yeah they'll know less but there's still a law that requires universities to accept a minimum number of Arab students even if they can accept some better Jewish students, so there's no discrimination against them in this subject. [quote]Dude, WW1 started in 1914, also the tensions started in the 20's generally in the times that zoinisim started becoming popular among jews.[/quote] ohadje's big post above me shows that there have been tensions even before the 20th century. [quote]Nope, that is raw evidence and as i said previously, Offical organisations took these results, they are just showing the truth, hell even a US department, your allies took the statistics and human rights watch also voiced a concern about israelis treatment of Arabs.[/quote] Evidence which don't prove anything, they only let you make assumptions. If an organisation took a group of people an asked them whether they like turtles and 90% said no, can we assume that 90% of all people don't like turtles? Yes, but it will most likely won't be true, unlike what the people who took the poll would like you to believe. [quote]The guy talked about the attack on gaza in 2008-2009, that obviously wasnt a special operation.[/quote] Maybe it was a special operation for that specific unit during the Gaza war. You are making more assumptions, just because one soldier said he was commanded to shoot first and think later one time, doesn't mean the IDF does this all the time. [quote]But if a humanitarian organisation shipped such goods to them the people of gaza do deserve the right to receive them, the israelis shouldnt ban them, also no, they still banned the things required for the gazans to rebuild such as building materials, those guys are living in the ruins of their own houses, how can freaking building material be a luxury.[/QUOTE] Building materials were allowed when human rights group asked for them, they were not allowed for "private merchants" because these could be working for the Hamas, then the Hamas could use them to smuggle weapons from Egypt by building tunnels. Also, Israel has the right to impose a blockade upon a belligerent city or port, so this right supersedes the right for the Gazans to receive anything other than "basic humanitarian supplies", as per international law.
[QUOTE=aydin690;24201174]He might be over-exaggerating but he has a point. Iran has repeatedly said that they will retaliate if israel attacks them. Their military might not be the best in the world but you gotta remember [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Current_Equipment_of_the_Iranian_Army"]they still have shit load of f14's[/URL] and [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_military_equipment_manufactured_in_Iran"]a pretty impressive range of medium range ballistic weapons[/URL]. Also, they fight dirty. Hezbullah, hamas and shit load of other islamic groups are on iran's payroll so they can seriously mess with israel.[/QUOTE] You really don't think the US will be all over this in a heartbeat if even the slightest move happened from either side?
[QUOTE=POLOPOZOZO;24219518]You really don't think the US will be all over this in a heartbeat if even the slightest move happened from either side?[/QUOTE] Damn straight the US of fucking A would be over there in a heartbeat. Israel is like America of the East. At least that's what Americans think.
[QUOTE=CanadianBill;24150114]Don't do this, Israel.[/QUOTE] No, let Israel try something stupid so they can be crushed once and for all.
[QUOTE=archangel125;24221904]No, let Israel try something stupid so they can be crushed once and for all.[/QUOTE] Crushed by what exactly, I haven't seen that many things able to crush Israel these days.
I'm not reading the whole thread but the thing. A modern reactor wont blow up and burn for days releasing radiation like Chernobyls shitty graphite reactor did. And before you blame russia: USA has given several countries slightly enriced uranium and nuclear technology including [B]North korea and Iran[/B] in exchange for the plutonium they produce. Risky business, eh.
[QUOTE=Maucer;24232543]you blame russia: USA has given several countries slightly enriced uranium and nuclear technology including [B]North korea and Iran[/B] in exchange for the plutonium they produce. Risky business, eh.[/QUOTE] Yeah, sure is risky business.
jesus christ guys can we just settle this over some matzo balls
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;24208678]Yeah but if you factor in the deaths from suicide bombings then the deaths are pretty even. I know their goal is to demoralize, there's terrorism in a nutshell - Attack your enemy's weak spot no matter what it is so he'll have to stop or do what you want. Also, Israel cancelled many attacks and bombings due to civilians being in the way. There was a chance to kill the head of the Hamas on the 2nd day of the Gaza war if I'm not mistaken, but he was with his family, so Israel chose not to do it. If Israel would have chosen the "kill all Hamas even if civilians will be in the way" option, Gaza would have been a ghost town.[/QUOTE] Actually the palistinians want to get out of there, some were lucky enough, also i think they domoralise as a form of gurrlia warfare, they obviously cant take israel head on, but want to make sure the israelis pull out of Gaza just to stop the attacks, now militarliy that makes sense, even though i do disagree with their tactics of suicide bomibng and how they claim its martydom (its not, its an unforgivable sin actually), but the rest is practiced by other other organisations employing their tactics, also there were much fewer deaths in israel by their attacks than israeli bombings in gaza. [QUOTE=BurnEmDown;24208678]They do have a way, since practically all suicide bombings have stopped in areas where the wall is built, they just go to areas where it still wasn't built.[/QUOTE] Well the wall construction plan i showed you sure as hell will distrupt palistinian lives, it will take hours more for them to reach basic services when that wall is built [QUOTE=BurnEmDown;24208678]If there wasn't such strong security then they'd try to cross through anyway and then the walls wouldn't do shit.[/QUOTE] No but i meant those organisations defitnatley pass those check points they probabley have tunnels leading into israel. [QUOTE=BurnEmDown;24208678]What I meant was that there's no way that these numbers are real. I'd say Arabs get about 70 or 65 percent of the fundings Jews get, which is still no little difference.[/QUOTE] Well just saying that shows budgetary discrimination in the education system of israel. [QUOTE=BurnEmDown;24208678]Yeah they'll know less but there's still a law that requires universities to accept a minimum number of Arab students even if they can accept some better Jewish students, so there's no discrimination against them in this subject.[/QUOTE] But why cant they just increase funding to make things fair for arabs rather than forcing universities to accept them despite them knowing less and therefore the courses being hard for them i even remember that half those arabs who do get into university fail their tests and that shows that there is budgetary discrimination and you even achnowledge that there is from what you are saying. [QUOTE=BurnEmDown;24208678]ohadje's big post above me shows that there have been tensions even before the 20th century.[/QUOTE] Thats because zoinism was becoming popular to jews over in palistine and they wanted a jewish state their but the british promised the palistinians a country for them so no wonder why tensions were high, im starting to think we should both blame the british for this lol. [QUOTE=BurnEmDown;24208678]Evidence which don't prove anything, they only let you make assumptions. If an organisation took a group of people an asked them whether they like turtles and 90% said no, can we assume that 90% of all people don't like turtles? Yes, but it will most likely won't be true, unlike what the people who took the poll would like you to believe.[/QUOTE] But from news interviews of palistinians on how jews discriminate against them, that simply backs up that poll. [QUOTE=BurnEmDown;24208678]Maybe it was a special operation for that specific unit during the Gaza war. You are making more assumptions, just because one soldier said he was commanded to shoot first and think later one time, doesn't mean the IDF does this all the time.[/QUOTE] No it was not, they were part of the regular IDF, and they were part of the main gaza attack force. [QUOTE=BurnEmDown;24208678]Building materials were allowed when human rights group asked for them, they were not allowed for "private merchants" because these could be working for the Hamas, then the Hamas could use them to smuggle weapons from Egypt by building tunnels. Also, Israel has the right to impose a blockade upon a belligerent city or port, so this right supersedes the right for the Gazans to receive anything other than "basic humanitarian supplies", as per international law.[/QUOTE] But isint building material humanitarian supplies, after all how can they build store houses for such goods, hospitals and homes if most of them are either destroyed, damaged beyond repair or vulnerable to bombing.
[QUOTE=Archy;24234673]jesus christ guys can we just settle this over some matzo balls[/QUOTE] Ew no, I hate matza's and everything related.
Random, this is a rather dull thing to argue with you. At the end of day, all you want is war and death - not peace.
And Just to show everyone that israel does not want peace in the region or the world as a whole, here are a few quotes from the peaceful israelis: "When we have settled the land, all the Arabs will be able to do about it will be to scurry around like drugged cockroaches in a bottle." Raphael Eitan, Chief of Staff of the Israeli Defence Forces, New York Times, 14 April 1983. How can we return the occupied territories? There is nobody to return them to. Golda Maier, March 8, 1969 "There was no such thing as Palestinians, they never existed." Golda Maier Israeli Prime Minister June 15, 1969 "I deeply believe in launching preventive war against the Arab States without further hesitation. By doing so we will achieve two targets: firstly, the annihilation of Arab power; and secondly, the expansion of our territory." (Menachem Begin, 12 October 1955) (and that shows you they want dominance of the middle east) "We must review the fence's routing ... There is a very serious risk the World Court will rule against us ... and this is liable to prompt the General Assembly into imposing all sorts of sanctions against us ... There is a danger that we will be exposed to an international boycott as was the case before the fall of the regime in South Africa." (Yosef (Tommy) Lapid, 4 January 2004) "Why are there so many Arabs? Why didn't you expel them?" (David Ben-Gurion, July 1948) "Spirit the penniless population across the frontier by denying it employment... Both the process of expropriation and the removal of the poor must be carried out discreetly and circumspectly." Theodore Herzl, founder of the World Zionist Organization, speaking of the Arabs of Palestine,Complete Diaries, June 12, 1895 entry. (Even the jews had their part in the violence Ohadje) "One million Arabs are not worth a Jewish fingernail." -- Rabbi Yaacov Perrin, Feb. 27, 1994 [Source: N.Y. Times, Feb. 28, 1994, p. 1] "We will establish ourselves in Palestine whether you like it or not...You can hasten our arrival or you can equally retard it. It is however better for you to help us so as to avoid our constructive powers being turned into a destructive power which will overthrow the world." (Chaim Weizmann, Published in "Judische Rundschau," No. 4, 1920) “Tell me, do the evil men of this world have a bad time? They hunt and catch whatever they feel like eating. They don’t suffer from indigestion and are not punished by Heaven. I want Israel to join that club. Maybe the world will then at last begin to fear us instead of feeling sorry. Maybe they will start to tremble, to fear our madness instead of admiring our nobility. Let them tremble; let them call us a mad state. Let them understand that we are a savage country, dangerous to our surroundings, not normal, that we might go wild, that we might start World War Three just like that, or that we might one day go crazy and burn all the oil fields in the Middle East. Even if you’ll prove to me that the present war is a dirty immoral war, I don’t care. We shall start another war, kill and destroy more and more. And do you know why it is all worth it? Because it seems that this war has made us more unpopular among the civilized world…We’ll hear no more of that nonsense about the unique Jewish morality. No more talk about a unique people being a light upon the nations. No more uniqueness and no more sweetness and light. Good riddance.” -—Former Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon "It is the duty of Israeli leaders to explain to public opinion, clearly and courageously, a certain number of facts that are forgotten with time. The first of these is that there is no Zionism,colonialization or Jewish State without the eviction of the Arabs and the expropriation of their lands." Yoram Bar Porath, Yediot Aahronot, of 14 July 1972. "Every time we do something you tell me America will do this and will do that . . . I want to tell you something very clear: Don't worry about American pressure on Israel. We, the Jewish people, control America, and the Americans know it." - Israeli Prime Minister, Ariel Sharon, October 3, 2001, to Shimon Peres, as reported on Kol Yisrael radio. "We declare openly that the Arabs have no right to settle on even one centimeter of Eretz Israel... Force is all they do or ever will understand. We shall use the ultimate force until the Palestinians come crawling to us on all fours." Rafael Eitan, Chief of Staff of the Israeli Defense Forces - Gad Becker, Yediot Ahronot 13 April 1983, New York Times 14 April 1983. "We must do everything to ensure they [the Palestinian refugees] never do return" David Ben-Gurion, in his diary, 18 July 1948, quoted in Michael Bar Zohar's Ben-Gurion: the Armed Prophet, Prentice-Hall, 1967, p. 157. " ... we should prepare to go over to the offensive with the aim of smashing Lebanon, Trans-jordan and Syria... The weak point in the Arab coalition is Lebanon [for] the Moslem regime is artificial and easy to undermine. A Christian state should be established... When we smash the [Arab] Legions strength and bomb Amman, we will eliminate Transjordan, too, and then Syria will fall. If Egypt still dares to fight on, we shall bomb Port Said, Alexandria, and Cairo." " David Ben-Gurion, May 1948, to the General Staff. From Ben-Gurion, A Biography, by Michael Ben-Zohar, Delacorte, New York 1978. (they obviously want domination of the middle east BurnEmDown) "We must use terror, assassination, intimidation, land confiscation, and the cutting of all social services to rid the Galilee of its Arab population." Israel Koenig, "The Koenig Memorandum" (Isint that whats happening now) "Jewish villages were built in the place of Arab villages. You do not even know the names of these Arab villages, and I do not blame you because geography books no longer exist. Not only do the books not exist, the Arab villages are not there either. Nahlal arose in the place of Mahlul; Kibbutz Gvat in the place of Jibta; Kibbutz Sarid in the place of Huneifis; and Kefar Yehushua in the place of Tal al-Shuman. There is not a single place built in this country that did not have a former Arab population." Moshe Dayan, address to the Technion, Haifa, reported in Haaretz, April 4, 1969. "We walked outside, Ben-Gurion accompanying us. Allon repeated his question, What is to be done with the Palestinian population?' Ben-Gurion waved his hand in a gesture which said 'Drive them out!'" Yitzhak Rabin, leaked censored version of Rabin memoirs, published in the New York Times, 23 October 1979. Rabin's description of the conquest of Lydda, after the completion of Plan Dalet. "We shall reduce the Arab population to a community of woodcutters and waiters" Uri Lubrani, PM Ben-Gurion's special adviser on Arab Affairs, 1960. From "The Arabs in Israel" by Sabri Jiryas. "Spirit the penniless population across the frontier by denying it employment... Both the process of expropriation and the removal of the poor must be carried out discreetly and circumspectly." Theodore Herzl, founder of the World Zionist Organization, speaking of the Arabs of Palestine,Complete Diaries, June 12, 1895 entry. (The arabs in the gaza strip have very high unemployment rates) "Our race is the Master Race. We are divine gods on this planet. We are as different from the inferior races as they are from insects. In fact, compared to our race, other races are beasts and animals, cattle at best. Other races are considered as human excrement. Our destiny is to rule over the inferior races. Our earthly kingdom will be ruled by our leader with a rod of iron. The masses will lick our feet and serve us as our slaves." - Israeli prime Minister Menachem Begin in a speech to the Knesset [Israeli Parliament] quoted by Amnon Kapeliouk, "Begin and the Beasts," New Statesman, June 25, 1982 (Hmmmmm, i think some one whos last name was H said something like that once) "There is a huge gap between us (Jews) and our enemies *not just in ability but in morality, culture, sanctity of life, and conscience. They are our neighbors here, but it seems as if at a distance of a few hundred meters away, there are people who do not belong to our continent, to our world, but actually belong to a different galaxy." Israeli president Moshe Katsav. The Jerusalem Post, May 10, 2001 "Everybody has to move, run and grab as many hilltops as they can to enlarge the settlements because everything we take now will stay ours... Everything we don't grab will go to them." Ariel Sharon, Israeli Foreign Minister, addressing a meeting of militants from the extreme right-wing Tsomet Party, Agence France Presse, November 15, 1998.
Israel won't do this I think. The future is rather unpredictable at this point. edit: I love the fact that every quote Random presented I checked (about 5) is only sourced in anti-semitic websites or some random YT channels, and not from the actual sources you claim they're from.
[QUOTE=ohadje;24235610]Random, this is a rather dull thing to argue with you. At the end of day, all you want is war and death - not peace.[/QUOTE] Not really but all that i want is the arab state of palistine that they were promised by the british for deafeting the ottomans, thats all that i want, because israels turn is over, let the palistinians have a try on who can be a more peaceful state.
[QUOTE=Random94;24235956]Not really but all that i want is the arab state of palistine that they were promised by the british for deafeting the ottomans, thats all that i want, because israels turn is over, let the palistinians have a try on who can be a more peaceful state.[/QUOTE] Britain promised entire Palestine to the Jews at 1917 in the Balfour Deceleration and made it an official statement at 1922 - but that's totally irrelevant. You do not support peace. When you'll admit it - you might have some creditability.
[QUOTE=ohadje;24235857]I love the fact that every quote Random presented I checked (about 5) is only sourced in anti-semitic websites or some random YT channels, and not from the actual sources you claim they're from.[/QUOTE] The website i got it from was definatley not anti semetic, but go ahead and look up the quotes, you will be suprised that these are actually real.
"kill all Jews!" - some Arab leader. It's easy to make up quotes.
You got 2. You got all of Jordan and a fair bit of land West of the river too. The Palestinians would only be peaceful because their neighbors wouldn't attack them and they would slaughter as many jews as they could.
[QUOTE=Random94;24235980]The website i got it from was definatley not anti semetic, but go ahead and look up the quotes, you will be suprised that these are actually real.[/QUOTE] I did search... The only one I found is Moshe Katsav, but that was taken out of context: "President Moshe Katsav said yesterday that Israel would never stoop to the brutality the Palestinians displayed in the stoning to death of two Tekoa teenagers this week. "There is a huge gap between us and our enemies - not just in ability but in morality, culture, sanctity of life, and conscience," Katsav told reporters at Beit Hanassi. "We would never stoop to the kind of brutality inflicted on the victims in Tekoa and Ofra," he added. "They're our neighbors here, but it seems as if at a distance of a few hundred meters away, there are people who don't belong to our continent, to our world, but actually belong to a different galaxy." Katsav said Israel must change its approach to the Palestinians, but stopped short of voicing exactly what that new approach should be -- although he appeared to imply that retaliation is at times necessary. "Force is no solution to anything," he said, "but sometimes it's essential." Referring to the brutal murders of two young boys from Tekoa, Katsav said he is sure there are Palestinians and other Moslems who oppose terrorism, but it was terrifying to realize how much cruelty and hatred the Palestinians harbor against Israelis. (Jerusalem Post, May 11, 2001)" That's the full context. As you can see he's talking about HAMAS/Fatah/terrorists, not the ordinary Arab.
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