John Bolton: Israel only has 8 days to strike Iran
439 replies, posted
[QUOTE=starpluck;24240003]I didn't mean in that way, but I suppose we can bring that up. What I meant was that Israel's continual lack of human rights oppression etc. empowers Hamas even stronger.
Therefore in the end, Israel creates and arms Hamas.[/quote]
Ah I see, well you can say in the same respect that Hamas "asks" for military response by continually launching rockets at Israel.
[quote]Private landownership does not constitute a nation's creation.[/quote]
And a permission from the UN to create a state?
[quote]What quote?[/quote]
The "the blockade is in order to punish the Palestinians for voting the wrong way" is from a quote of some Israeli right-wing extremists MP.
[quote]That's not a justification. Hamas could say they were trying to free the Palestinians every time they lob a bottle rocket.[/QUOTE]
Except they are admitting to specifically targeting civilians, so that's not gonna cut it.
Also keep in mind that they've been doing it for 10 years. It's not a one-time thing where the Hamas threw one rocket and Israel went all batshit insane all over them. Israel has been suffering for 10 years from rocket fires and the Hamas wasn't going to stop it. Even during the cease-fire independent groups launched rockets at Israel and Hamas didn't do a thing to stop them. What is Israel supposed to do, just sit there and take it?
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;24239929]
Because even semi harmless are still harmful. Also Israel hoped it could free Gilad Shalit in this operation.[/QUOTE]
If someone throws a cherry bomb at Israel's 172 inch thick solid titanium wall, then they have the justification to nuke every square mile of the person throwing them's country.
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;24240171]Ah I see, well you can say in the same respect that Hamas "asks" for military response by continually launching rockets at Israel.[/quote] Israel existed long before Hamas did, bub.
[quote]
And a permission from the UN to create a state?
[/quote]
Woah! Hold it there. Since when do you use the U.N to back yourself when arguing for Israel.
[quote]
The "the blockade is in order to punish the Palestinians for voting the wrong way" is from a quote of some Israeli right-wing extremists MP.[/quote]
I don't think that's true; I googl'd it. Assuming it was true, it's still a government official. Assuming it isn't you and I both know that's why they were blockaded. Once again, what are they going to do, make a choclate powered rocket?
[quote]
Except they are admitting to specifically targeting civilians, so that's not gonna cut it.[/quote]
No they haven't.
[url]http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N05160437.htm[/url]
[quote]
Also keep in mind that they've been doing it for 10 years. It's not a one-time thing where the Hamas threw one rocket and Israel went all batshit insane all over them. Israel has been suffering for 10 years from rocket fires and the Hamas wasn't going to stop it. Even during the cease-fire independent groups launched rockets at Israel and Hamas didn't do a thing to stop them. What is Israel supposed to do, just sit there and take it?[/QUOTE]Also keep in mind that they've been doing it for over 60 years. It's not a one-time thing where the Israel did something and Hamas went batshit insane. The Palestinians have been suffering for over 60 years from Israel oppression.
Oh and once again, Israel exists longer than Hamas.
[quote]Even during the cease-fire independent groups launched rockets at Israel and Hamas didn't do a thing to stop them. What is Israel supposed to do, just sit there and take it?
Source? And Hamas did what they could to prevent this. Note this is [B]extremely[/B] hard when funding only comes in secret little amounts and you have a blockade placed on you preventing you access to any resources.
[QUOTE=starpluck;24239671]What are you talking about?
[B]They're extremely destructive![/B]
[IMG]http://pakalert.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/hamas-rocket-causes-devastation-in-israel.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/3319/quassa5zo7.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/5854/quassa6tu4.jpg[/IMG]
[/QUOTE]
These bombs are lethal because they contain shrapnel. Lots of it.
An explosion doesn't have to be particularly powerful and destructive in order to injure and kill if you attach a lot of shrapnel to it.
And this is just one model of a rocket they use. For shorter distance settlements, they fire mortars, and for longer distances they fire military-grade, 122 mm [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BM-21_Grad"]BM-21 Grad rockets[/URL] (not from trucks, they usually fire them from single tubes on the ground.
Here is a picture of one-
[IMG]http://media.stratfor.com/mmf/9/d/9dbaa7d5474d42953d5a4462609c04bbaa80e42c_two_column.jpg[/IMG]
This is no firecracker. It is meant to kill people.
[QUOTE=A Dead Guy;24240315]These bombs are lethal because they contain shrapnel. Lots of it.
An explosion doesn't have to be particularly powerful and destructive in order to injure and kill if you attach a lot of shrapnel to it.
And this is just one model of a rocket they use. For shorter distance settlements, they fire mortars, and for longer distances they fire military-grade [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BM-21_Grad"]BM-21 Grad rockets[/URL] (not from trucks, they usually fire them from single tubes on the ground) such as these-
[IMG]http://media.stratfor.com/mmf/9/d/9dbaa7d5474d42953d5a4462609c04bbaa80e42c_two_column.jpg[/IMG]
This is no firecracker. It is meant to kill people.[/QUOTE]
[IMG]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/83/%D0%97%D0%A0%D0%9A_%D0%93%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B4_%D0%BF%D0%B0%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B4.jpg[/IMG]
No what the fuck are you talking about. They don't even use those and I don't think it's possible to launch alone. They only launch [B]QASSAM[/B].
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;24239898]So? Didn't the US empower the Taliban or Al-Qaeda (I forgot which) so they could fight the Russians for them? Israel basically did the same against the Fatah, and now the Fatah are actually the more peaceful ones.[/QUOTE]
Actually im not sure that fatah even have much of an influence or a voice in the israel palestine problem anymore.
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;24239898]I know most of them don't, but some do, so Israel can't just let them continue killing civilians, no matter how slow the rate is.[/QUOTE]
Well scince of of the pro israelis say israel has the best military in the world i bet they can, but obviously they want something to blame the palestinians for so they can conduct military operations so they dont use it.
[QUOTE=starpluck;24240386]-pic-
No what the fuck are you talking about. They don't even use those and I don't think it's possible to launch alone. They only launch [B]QASSAM[/B].[/QUOTE]
First of all, please snip the picture, it is way too large.
Second of all, the wikipedia article claims that "Hamas and other armed organisations in the Gaza Strip do not operate BM-21 truck-based launchers.. They have used small man-portable launchers for rocket attacks against Israel, using.. individual 122 mm rockets which have been smuggled into Gaza, including the type used as ammunition for the BM-21 Grad..."
Third, if you don't believe wikipedia, believe this-
[url]http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/meast/02/03/israel.rocket.attack/index.html[/url]
It is not possible that they use only Qassam rockets, because they don't have the range to hit settlements such as Ashkelon and Be'er-Sheva
Also-
[QUOTE=starpluck;24240296]
No they haven't.
[url]http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N05160437.htm[/url]
[/QUOTE]
lol no
[url]http://abcnews.go.com/International/wirestory?id=9765239&page=2[/url]
[QUOTE=starpluck;24240296]Israel existed long before Hamas did, bub.[/quote]
If you want to go to the "who started it" argument then you've already lost because the Arabs were the first to attack the Zionists, not the other way around.
[quote]Woah! Hold it there. Since when do you use the U.N to back yourself when arguing for Israel. [/quote]
I don't care much about the UN since it can only recommend and stuff like that, so when you say stuff like "the UN says Israel is bad!!" I really don't care, but when the UN doesn't even say those stuff, you've got pretty much nothing for an argument.
[quote]I don't think that's true; I googl'd it. Assuming it was true, it's still a government official. Assuming it isn't you and I both know that's why they were blockaded. Once again, what are they going to do, make a choclate powered rocket?[/quote]
They hoped that if the Hamas will have to live off of basic supplies then they will be demoralized, unfortunately they aren't, but at least the blockade is keeping strong weapons out, although not always. The Hamas is getting some army-grade weapons through the tunnels and that is why keeping building materials out is so important, so they won't be able to rebuilt the tunnels after Israel destroys them.
Also what do you care about Palestinians getting chocolate and honey and those kinds of stuff? If they are starving then they need real food that is easy to transport and distribute. I doubt any starving Palestinian child in Gaza would prefer one piece of bread with chocolate than two pieces of bread.
[quote]No they haven't.[/quote]
Oh so they said sorry now they are free of charge.
[quote]Also keep in mind that they've been doing it for over 60 years. It's not a one-time thing where the Israel did something and Hamas went batshit insane. The Palestinians have been suffering for over 60 years from Israel oppression.
Oh and once again, Israel exists longer than Hamas.[/quote]
And once again, the Arabs started using terror and violence before the Jews and Zionists.
[quote]Even during the cease-fire independent groups launched rockets at Israel and Hamas didn't do a thing to stop them. What is Israel supposed to do, just sit there and take it?
Source? And Hamas did what they could to prevent this. Note this is [B]extremely[/B] hard when funding only comes in secret little amounts and you have a blockade placed on you preventing you access to any resources.[/QUOTE]
The surgical strike Israel did which breached the cease-fire was against a team of terrorists who launched rockets, there were Hamas operatives amongst them.
[editline]09:08PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=Random94;24240491]Actually im not sure that fatah even have much of an influence or a voice in the israel palestine problem anymore.[/quote]
Aren't they a big part of the PA?
[quote]Well scince of of the pro israelis say israel has the best military in the world i bet they can, but obviously they want something to blame the palestinians for so they can conduct military operations so they dont use it.[/QUOTE]
No, they can't yet, they're making a new technology with the help of the US and Malaysia I think that will stop rocket launches, it's called Iron Dome.
You took to long to reply damnit. I'm no longer in the mood to debate. Maybe Random can continue, but if you and Devo continue to harass him and treat him like an inferior piece of shit because of his lack of English, I'll have no choice but to intervene.
When did I say anything about his English?
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;24241285]When did I say anything about his English?[/QUOTE]
I was talking about Devo. I suppose the whole post should've been directed at him since he was the one acting all arrogant, insulting his intelligence etc. As well as a little for ohajde, but that's natural.
Guys, can we just let this thread sink to the bottom of the page?
This is now old news.
How about we way 5 more days until it will be old, false news?
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;24241545]How about we way 5 more days until it will be old, false news?[/QUOTE]
:(
It's no longer false: http://edition.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/meast/08/21/israel.sends.nuclear.missle.to.iran/index.html
[QUOTE=starpluck;24241580]:(
It's no longer false: [url]http://edition.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/meast/08/21/israel.bombs.iran/index.html[/url][/QUOTE]
Never gonna give you up
HOLY SHIT ISLAM WITH NUKES!? Israel stop them!
[QUOTE=starpluck;24241233]You took to long to reply damnit. I'm no longer in the mood to debate. Maybe Random can continue, but if you and Devo continue to harass him and treat him like an inferior piece of shit because of his lack of English, I'll have no choice but to intervene.[/QUOTE]
We are all scared of your superior debating skills.