• Guns on College Campus? What.
    306 replies, posted
Ok then... How does removing their ability to defend themselves solve the problem of an active shooter???
[QUOTE=JaegerMonster;28207014]Ok then... How does removing their ability to defend themselves solve the problem of an active shooter???[/QUOTE] I don't believe he's saying that it will solve that problem, merely that it won't help it.
I'm just saying that the problem shouldn't exist in the first place, and there is not really any way to solve the problem unless you do indeed have a gun. But maybe firing back isn't always the best answer either. What do you think [editline]22nd February 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Megafanx13;28207029]I don't believe he's saying that it will solve that problem, merely that it won't help it.[/QUOTE] You know me better than I do
[QUOTE=Megafanx13;28207029]I don't believe he's saying that it will solve that problem, merely that it won't help it.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=En-Guage V2;28206850]Hence my problem in the first place. If you can lessen the amount of weapons that people can carry around? Why wouldn't you? [B]That way you can avoid the situation entirely[/B], this is why I'm so glad my country's gun laws are so different to that of American states[/QUOTE] How does removing a person's ability to defend himself avoid that situation?
[QUOTE=En-Guage V2;28207041]I'm just saying that the problem shouldn't exist in the first place, and there is not really any way to solve the problem unless you do indeed have a gun. But maybe firing back isn't always the best answer either.[/QUOTE] Firing back isn't a good way to stop a school shooter?
The thing I don't understand here is the whole "But criminals won't abide by the law so it's pointless" argument. you realise this argument applies to every law written by man ever.
[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;28207169]The thing I don't understand here is the whole "But criminals won't abide by the law so it's pointless" argument. you realise this argument applies to every law written by man ever.[/QUOTE] Does it have no bearing that even in areas/countries of un-restrictive firearm policies that a vast majority of firearm homicides are committed with illegally owned/acquired firearms? Removing legal firearms does nothing to stop the usage of firearms in crime. The problem here is people are so intent on turning into a firearm problem when really they should be looking at the CRIME problem.
[QUOTE=JaegerMonster;28207208]Does it have no bearing that even in areas/countries of un-restrictive firearm policies that a vast majority of firearm homicides are committed with illegally owned/acquired firearms? Removing legal firearms does nothing to stop the usage of firearms in crime. The problem here is people are so intent on turning into a firearm problem when really they should be looking at the CRIME problem.[/QUOTE] I'm not going to comment on the whole firearms debate going on here, but I'm just saying, laws don't stop anyone from doing anything if they really want to do it.
[QUOTE=JaegerMonster;28207208]Does it have no bearing that even in areas/countries of un-restrictive firearm policies that a vast majority of firearm homicides are committed with illegally owned/acquired firearms? Removing legal firearms does nothing to stop the usage of firearms in crime. The problem here is people are so intent on turning into a firearm problem when really they should be looking at the CRIME problem.[/QUOTE] School shootings are caused in part by easy access to firearms. The kinds of kids who do school shootings (introverts) are highly unlikely to have a means of acquiring illegal firearms.
[QUOTE=JaegerMonster;28206839]Well the thing is, on a college campus about the only time you will need your firearm in defense of life is to stop a situation like an active shooter. In such a scenario, you have only really two options: A) Kill him first or B) run and hide. History has shown so far that option B hasn't really been that successful.[/QUOTE] The problem is that everyone would need to have a gun for this to work and the only way to do that is to systematically alter how people think. Some people want to have guns and some don't. Regardless, weapons do not belong in education, we need to find a way to educate people to, as cliché as it sounds, resolve their problems with words and not violence.
[QUOTE=Broseph_;28187548]Yet Texas has less school shootings than Germany[/QUOTE] Source? edit nevermind: [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_shooting[/url]
[QUOTE=lukepker;28209275]Source? edit nevermind: [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_shooting[/url][/QUOTE] I'm going to say the fact that 25 million people live in Texas, compared to 81 million in Germany, makes a difference.
[QUOTE=Prismatex;28209490]I'm going to say the fact that 25 million people live in Texas, compared to 81 million in Germany, makes a difference.[/QUOTE] And that Germany is a country, and Texas is a state in a country.
[QUOTE=En-Guage V2;28206360]Some stupid reason like "to avoid another columbine" is ridiculous[/QUOTE] Yeah! We all know something as bad as that could NEVER happen again.
[QUOTE=s0beit;28203724]I'm still waiting for an answer, what makes them more qualified to handle that situation exactly besides some vague perception of their training. Do you even know at all? It's a pretty simple question, back up your claim. CCW holders i believe are advised in their classes to call the authorities if their life is not in immediate danger, also, i would like for some one to post at least on article where this "fish in the barrel" incident took place, anywhere in the United States before. Just one would be nice. Two or more CCW holders shooting at an innocent man, or shooting at each other accidentally when one wasn't the criminal, one piece of evidence to back up your claim is all i want.[/QUOTE] [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNd4VG2ZkVs&feature=related[/url] [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJQ-iFhsXIE[/url] [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9ctsPtUoJI&feature=related[/url]
[QUOTE=s0beit;28193681]No you're right the police use flowers[/QUOTE] British police don't carry guns.
[QUOTE=aydin690;28217455]British police don't carry guns.[/QUOTE] Indeed, the only time I've seen an armed officer is at Manchester airport when their was a bit of a bomb scare, they looked pretty damn scary though.
[QUOTE=aydin690;28217455]British police don't carry guns.[/QUOTE] some do, it's a specific unit
We all know that the British police uses knives. Obviously.
[QUOTE=Devodiere;28185422]It would take quite a bit of emotion to just pull out your gun and kill someone, not the kind of thing you do on a whim. Also why does accuracy or training count? Surely if you don't even know how to use a gun you shouldn't have one but beyond basic use all you really need to do is point it at someone for it to have it's full effect.[/QUOTE] If you have no idea what the basics of rifle marksmanship are, you're going to miss your target at ten meters and probably shoot your own foot off in the process. It's not at all the "point in the general direction of someone and squeeze the trigger" that people chock it up to be.
[QUOTE=s0beit;28185359]I meant "everywhere" in Texas, rated informative anyway as i did not know that. That's a stupid fucking question, it's normal for you to get attacked in the middle of the street anywhere on the planet. People are people, unless you have a police radio shoved up your ass the police aren't going to help you if you get "attacked in the middle of the street", they'll probably be out to file a police report though.[/QUOTE] I've always had the fantasy of fucking up someone who tried some shit with me, but if somebody pulls a gun on you, that gun is already out. If you try to pull yours out, you will be shot the second your hand gets on the handle, if you can stomach your fear enough to grab it quickly. I suppose someone [B]could[/B] shoot someone who tries columbine on campus, [B]if[/B] they've had training, but even then, they'll get a few bullets out, especially if they have a high capacity clip. I think the security guard who is trained to be alert for that is going to handle it better than a civilian. If this law passes, students should at least have training before being allowed to carry a firearm on campus. Yes, people will still carry guns to school illegally like they have in the past, but legalizing it only makes it easier. People who shoot up schools don't plan on being alive the next day anyway, so the fear of getting shot isn't on their minds. Also, I would absolutely [B][I]love[/I][/B] being able to carry a firearm around. When I hold a gun, I feel a magical sense of strength that I can't explain. Hell, when I have my serrated knife on me, I feel that way a little bit, but I think it's too dangerous. [editline]23rd February 2011[/editline] We need more damn security guards.
[QUOTE=aydin690;28217455]British police don't carry guns.[/QUOTE] And are screwed the instant they are outnumbered. Population density, and thus officer density, is the only reason this works ever. US police officers are almost universally one man, one cruiser. Response time from another officer can regularly be four or five minutes. In the UK, on average, you have more tax payers in a smaller area. This means more police to cover a geographically smaller area. When things go sideways, multiple units can be in one area very quickly. But in the rare instances where you are alone, if three guys have a bit of pipe, you are in serious trouble. Ultimately it generally works for the UK. But it would never work for the United States even assuming we had similar gun control. [editline]22nd February 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Lord_Ragnarok;28221970] Hell, when I have my serrated knife on me, I feel that way a little bit, but I think it's too dangerous.[/QUOTE] Be careful with that. Serrated blades are serrated for utility purposes. Using them as a weapon is usually ill advised. Serrated blades get caught on flesh and bone. Depending on whether you are stabbing or removing the blade from your target, you can either have your hand fly forward and get cut on the blade, or you can lose your knife.
[QUOTE=Bletotum;28185074]This is actually a good idea (IN THEORY) I mean, laws keeping guns off of a school campus will NOT keep the criminals from bringing one anyway, it keeps the normal civilians from defending themselves. the problem is morons who would start a shootout over some argument. edit I think a better solution would be dedicated security and areas for students to hide in an event like this. (nothing extra I just mean lockable closets and shit)[/QUOTE] You couldn't be more shortsighted. You are at school, carrying your state allowed handgun, when you hear gunfire. To your left, 7 or 8 people are shooting, but who is the shooter? People are not trained well enough to be expected to make such distinctions in close combat. There would be more friendly fire incidents than people shot by the killer, most likely.
[QUOTE=Prismatex;28209490]I'm going to say the fact that 25 million people live in Texas, compared to 81 million in Germany, makes a difference.[/QUOTE] Well... Okay, I thought Germany and Texas has relatively the same population, but it should be noted that Texas has a significantly higher gun ownership rate than Germany Now, lets try this, Canada, only 10 million people difference, stricter gun laws, yet more school shootings [editline]24th February 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=lukepker;28209560]And that Germany is a country, and Texas is a state in a country.[/QUOTE] How is this even relevant considering the United States is a FEDERAL republic after al?
[url]http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_wit_fir_percap-crime-murders-firearms-per-capita[/url] Name a developed country that's higher than the United States on this list. [editline]24th February 2011[/editline] Also, Japan, a country with very strict gun laws has almost no gun violence. Also, 60% of murders committed in Japan are Yakuza(Japanese mafia) related.
Why is it these threads last so long with the same shit being repeated over and over again? You'd think it's old by now.
[QUOTE=Fables;28252846]Why is it these threads last so long with the same shit being repeated over and over again? You'd think it's old by now.[/QUOTE] That's how political debates usually work. One side posts last, then the other side doesn't respond. After that, the same argument opens up again and the cycle repeats. Sometimes it stagnates and becomes an argument over whose sources are more reliable, but it's the cycle. I occasionally learn something from the right, which is why I partake in these debates, but that's rare.
This is a good way to help defend more school university shootout's like that damn asian did, now people have more protection. Bad thing about it is that people will shoot each other over stupid things, like someone cheated on their girlfriend/boyfriend, to back this up they need extra security, like a police officer in every corner.
Actually, that's why I stopped for a while. I occasionally come back, but that probably won't last.
[QUOTE=Lord_Ragnarok;28252705][url]http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_wit_fir_percap-crime-murders-firearms-per-capita[/url] Name a developed country that's higher than the United States on this list.[/QUOTE] Estonia Higher murder and firearms homicide rate than the United States Now what? :smug:
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