[QUOTE=Olas;28191540]Doesn't state law require a concealed weapons license to have a concealed weapon anyways?[/QUOTE]
Varies from state to state. In fact, TX has outlawed open carry, so concealed is the only way you can do it.
[editline]21st February 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Megafanx13;28191516]What "hippies" are you referring to?[/QUOTE]
The flower children that populate college campuses that think the world would be a perfect place if only people thought happy thoughts.
[QUOTE=Olas;28191540]Doesn't state law require a concealed weapons license to have a concealed weapon anyways?[/QUOTE]
Yeah. All this would do is allow anyone who can carry a concealed weapon off campus carry one on campus. So the people that already legally carry them everywhere would just be able to carry them to class.
[QUOTE=Ridge;28191566]The flower children that populate college campuses that think the world would be a perfect place if only people thought happy thoughts.[/QUOTE]
We're not talking about arming people against hurricanes. If everyone thought only happy thoughts we wouldn't have to worry about murder or theft.
So yeah, not the best point to bring up.
[QUOTE=Ridge;28191566]Varies from state to state. In fact, TX has outlawed open carry, so concealed is the only way you can do it.
[editline]21st February 2011[/editline]
The flower children that populate college campuses that think the world would be a perfect place if only people thought happy thoughts.[/QUOTE]
I live right next to a college campus and have been there many times, but have not seen any of these people you speak of.
[QUOTE=Megafanx13;28191801]I live right next to a college campus and have been there many times, but have not seen any of these people you speak of.[/QUOTE]
Really depends on the state. College campuses have a day/night difference depending on the region.
Ok, as long as those idiots don't lose their own guns.
[QUOTE=JohnnyMo1;28191785]We're not talking about arming people against hurricanes. If everyone thought only happy thoughts we wouldn't have to worry about murder or theft.
So yeah, not the best point to bring up.[/QUOTE]
its such a lovely day
i love having AIDS
[QUOTE=Broseph_;28187815]Why would you be afraid? Unless you into to harass or assault someone randomly, why would you have any fear?[/QUOTE]
It's not just the issue of violence between people with firearms that warrants fear. It also boils down to unintentional shootings and suicides. Unintentional shootings are 4 times more likely to happen than a criminal assault, of any kind (with or without a firearm; kind of negates the argument that they're a great tool for self-defense, doesn't it?); concurrently, the most common use of firearms in the United States is not self-defense, it's suicide.
[url]http://wildcat.arizona.edu/news/ua-debates-campus-gun-bill-1.1122970[/url]
[url]http://www.huffingtonpost.com/paul-helmke/lapierre-vs-reagan-differ_b_822431.html[/url]
Following that up, the second most common cause of death in the United States for people aged 10-24 is firearm homocide (just behind motor vehicle accidents, with the leading cause of these stemming from drunk driving), and we spend $41 billion annually on treating gunshot wounds.
[url]http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:75nq2v0ekr4J:www.dpw.state.pa.us/ucmprd/groups/public/documents/document/s_001968.pdf+In+a+recent+study,+the+average+costs+for+treating+gunshot+wounds+were+%2422,400+each+for+unintentional+shootings,+%2418,400+each+for+gun-assault+injuries+and+%24+5,400+each+for+suicides.+Annually+the+cost+to+our+country+for+gun+violence+toward+people+under+the+age+of+24+has+reached+%2441+billion.&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESitrXtl-RTPA8Jo2WPCNja_48PoZ_LQ-AQgu4DFsLRQj-Sl89_bK59Bf88q9KnPJWyJ1Z0yaEJAu23ps7JOMetnz9g_MGbEo48FRP2SjSTAlHBO1Qc1A-6U2zWYFuvuBU4VyomC&sig=AHIEtbQJ39s5dTYnv9JgecErVaWQabe-vQ[/url]
Now I'm not arguing that we should restrict guns as far as this issue with guns on campuses is concerned; I'm simply saying that it's really not a practical idea to do so given this data and the data from the United States Department of Education which already shows that school campuses in general (including postsecondary ones) are safer than off-campus grounds, nation-wide. Hence, it really doesn't make much sense to push for legislation that would allow firearms on campus since they're already really safe; it would make more sense to focus on improving security to make them even safer.
As much as I like shooting guns and messing around with guns in general (old rifles and pistols, Mausers and Nagants especially), there really isn't much justification on the grounds of self-defense to allow more people to carry firearms on campus in lieu of all the information presented here in this thread. Rather than speculating on the what-ifs should this kind of legislation come to pass, focus on what our current situation without it [i]is[/i].
[QUOTE=Ridge;28191566]
The flower children that populate college campuses that think the world would be a perfect place if only people thought happy thoughts.[/QUOTE]
have you ever spent an extended period of time on a college campus?
[editline]a[/editline]
also what the guy above me said, that's a really good post
That's dumb as fuck. Only americans think guns protect people.
I won't mind at all, I'll be there in a couple of years. I'd feel a lot safer knowing everyone who was responsible had a weapon compared to one guy who is insane who sneaked it onto campus.
I was pulled out of school and went home when the UT student with an AK-47 committed suicide.
[QUOTE=Mr_Razzums;28186098]Professors and other faculty should have the ability to carry. So far in almost every school shooting, police had too much red tape and or they took to long to do anything about it.
Just so everyone knows, when you carry you are upholding a certain responsibility. Just because you have a gun in the back of your pants does not mean you are going to pull it on everyone who is talking shit to you etc. Even worse case scenario where a student with a permit did go off the wall and shoot someone. Whats the difference between a normal student with a concealed carry permit with a gun in his back pocket and a school shooter with a gun in his back pocket?
Also an advantage of having concealed carry is opportunity. If a school shooting did occur I doubt it would turn into a 'firefight'.[/QUOTE]
I don't think I could trust professors to win a firefight. Most of the ones I know I couldn't imagine in a million years to be capable of whipping out a glock and sliding to cover and shit.
[QUOTE=aydin690;28192905]That's dumb as fuck. Only americans think guns protect people.[/QUOTE]
No you're right the police use flowers
[QUOTE=Broseph_;28187548]Yet Texas has less school shootings than Germany[/QUOTE]
im sorry but i have to point out
texas is a state
germany is a country
The worst scenario I could think of is probably having person 1 shoot somebody, and then in the confusion person 2 shoots person 1, and person 3 thinks person 2 is the person who started it and shoots person 2.
[QUOTE=Kontradaz;28190838]
You automatically claim that since there is such little amount of evidence on my side of the argument, that your side of the argument is correct on the basis of legality and rights of the individual. You know why there is such little evidence? Because this is a topic that has not been examined in conclusive empirical studies. From my research, I have seen how little research there is on the effects of guns on college campuses (And what I have seen is a mixed bag- both your side and my side have little evidence). What this means is that neither side has much to back their argument other than personal opinion.[/QUOTE]
This is a new twist, I am intrigued.
Not that it changes anything. In fact you just ruined your entire argument by admitting that there isn't any evidence.
If there is no evidence supporting the ban, then the ban should be lifted. If you have no evidence as to why something should be banned, then it SHOULDN'T BE BANNED.
If you want to deprive people of their rights YOU HAVE TO PROVIDE EVIDENCE AS TO WHY. I don't need a reason to enjoy my freedom of speech or a reason as to why I don't want the government randomly searching my home. If you want to take such things away from me, YOU need a damn good reason.
Pop pop pop, Texans gon' drop.
[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;28192874]have you ever spent an extended period of time on a college campus?
[editline]a[/editline]
also what the guy above me said, that's a really good post[/QUOTE]
Yeah, I spent 5 years on two college campuses. How about you?
[QUOTE=GunFox;28196846]This is a new twist, I am intrigued.
Not that it changes anything. In fact you just ruined your entire argument by admitting that there isn't any evidence.
If there is no evidence supporting the ban, then the ban should be lifted. If you have no evidence as to why something should be banned, then it SHOULDN'T BE BANNED.
If you want to deprive people of their rights YOU HAVE TO PROVIDE EVIDENCE AS TO WHY. I don't need a reason to enjoy my freedom of speech or a reason as to why I don't want the government randomly searching my home. If you want to take such things away from me, YOU need a damn good reason.[/QUOTE]
Damn, it's like I'm reading some Ultra-Libertarianist propaganda here. As I have said before, you seem to have absolutely no regard for the possible consequences of lifting such a ban. Colleges across the world are not facing imminent danger of too many shootings or too much violence due to the lack of guns. In fact, as research has shown, colleges are some of the most safe institutions. Now, you want to make such a drastic change and allow guns simply because there is not enough research done to disprove that guns in campuses are bad? Just because freedom of the individual somehow trumps the possible issues that such a release of a ban may have? Until more conclusive research is conducted, I would rather stick to the safe college environment rather than risk the lives and well-being of students for some narrow-minded libertarian who is fixated on glorifying the rights of the individual.
- snip -
[QUOTE=Ridge;28191566]
The flower children that populate college campuses that think the world would be a perfect place if only people thought happy thoughts.[/QUOTE]
these people don't exist anymore
[QUOTE=joes33431;28193816]im sorry but i have to point out
texas is a state
germany is a country[/QUOTE]
No, Germany is a State of the European Union :eng101:
But in seriousness, U.S. states are basically their own nations except in areas of defense and borders, you know this, correct?
[editline]21st February 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=thisispain;28197349]these people don't exist anymore[/QUOTE]
They do in Austin
[QUOTE=Broseph_;28197453]
They do in Austin[/QUOTE]
your stereotyping of them exist and nothing more
[QUOTE=thisispain;28197349]these people don't exist anymore[/QUOTE]
Check out CU: Boulder
[editline]21st February 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=thisispain;28197499]your stereotyping of them exist and nothing more[/QUOTE]
Unless you have personally been to the campus in question and have seen it's people, you can kindly shut the fuck up about what you do not know.
[QUOTE=Kontradaz;28197224]Damn, it's like I'm reading some Ultra-Libertarianist propaganda here. As I have said before, you seem to have absolutely no regard for the possible consequences of lifting such a ban. Colleges across the world are not facing imminent danger of too many shootings or too much violence due to the lack of guns. In fact, as research has shown, colleges are some of the most safe institutions. Now, you want to make such a drastic change and allow guns simply because there is not enough research done to disprove that guns in campuses are bad? Just because freedom of the individual somehow trumps the possible issues that such a release of a ban may have? Until more conclusive research is conducted, I would rather stick to the safe college environment rather than risk the lives and well-being of students for some narrow-minded libertarian who is fixated on glorifying the rights of the individual.[/QUOTE]
Isn't this what they said about lifting DC's handgun ban and directly afterward DC vs Heller their crime rate dropped to a 15 year low?
[QUOTE=Ridge;28197510]
Unless you have personally been to the campus in question and have seen it's people, you can kindly shut the fuck up about what you do not know.[/QUOTE]
you're getting defensive quite quickly aren't you?
but i'm pretty sure you just look at one person and are willing to judge an entire group based on them
i mean you hate them so i don't find it likely that you've spent any extended time trying to understand people so that's why i can safely say it's just a stereotype in your head
[QUOTE=Ridge;28197055]Yeah, I spent 5 years on two college campuses. How about you?[/QUOTE]
well obviously you spent it on some bizzarro campus because the perception of colleges as being full of old-school style hippies is so outdated it's cliched in pieces of media from 30 years ago
[QUOTE=thisispain;28197556]you're getting defensive quite quickly aren't you?
but i'm pretty sure you just look at one person and are willing to judge an entire group based on them
i mean you hate them so i don't find it likely that you've spent any extended time trying to understand people so that's why i can safely say it's just a stereotype in your head[/QUOTE]
I'm getting angry because that is your excuse every time. Yet all republicans are bible thumping racists and conservatives in generals are one step above neanderthals in your eyes, no exceptions.
As I said before, I spent 5 years on 2 college campuses, graduating in Summer 2009, and there were no shortage of idealistic people that believed that if you banned gun ownership the world would be a perfect place with no crime or hunger. Wake up and see what is really going on outside your mom's basement.
[editline]21st February 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;28197602]well obviously you spent it on some bizzarro campus because the perception of colleges as being full of old-school style hippies is so outdated it's cliched in pieces of media from 30 years ago[/QUOTE]
How can it be an outdated cliche from 30 years ago if it is parodying the people OF 30 years ago?
[QUOTE=thisispain;28197556]you're getting defensive quite quickly aren't you?
but i'm pretty sure you just look at one person and are willing to judge an entire group based on them
i mean you hate them so i don't find it likely that you've spent any extended time trying to understand people so that's why i can safely say it's just a stereotype in your head[/QUOTE]
even if he is totally factual and Boulder really is fully of hippies as they are portrayed in South Park it is wholly unrelated to the subject matter and his posting about it is just some weird cathartic thing
Guns are like credit cards - you really shouldn't go anywhere without one
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