• Guns on College Campus? What.
    306 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Kontradaz;28197224]Damn, it's like I'm reading some Ultra-Libertarianist propaganda here. As I have said before, you seem to have absolutely no regard for the possible consequences of lifting such a ban. Colleges across the world are not facing imminent danger of too many shootings or too much violence due to the lack of guns. In fact, as research has shown, colleges are some of the most safe institutions. Now, you want to make such a drastic change and allow guns simply because there is not enough research done to disprove that guns in campuses are bad? Just because freedom of the individual somehow trumps the possible issues that such a release of a ban may have? Until more conclusive research is conducted, I would rather stick to the safe college environment rather than risk the lives and well-being of students for some narrow-minded libertarian who is fixated on glorifying the rights of the individual.[/QUOTE] People exercising their rights? STOP THE PRESSES. SOMETHING NEEDS TO BE DONE ABOUT THIS!
[QUOTE=s0beit;28203857]lol, no[/QUOTE] Nice argument I am totally convinced!
[QUOTE=s0beit;28203857]lol, no[/QUOTE] what lol no, have you ever educated yourself on what left-wing and right-wing means? anarchism advocates a destruction of state and society, conservatism advocates maintaining the social and hierarchical systems. those are incompatible. [QUOTE=s0beit;28203857]No, it's a real dilemma. People who shoot up schools or commit violent crimes have psychological problems that need to be addressed. Unless you're just picking people at random it will be hard to stop these crimes without intervention in youth, remember most school shooters haven't committed crimes before. It isn't like they have a criminal record for us to fall back on and recommend for psychiatric treatment.[/QUOTE] people who shoot up schools are mostly ones who were deprived of emotional support and often ignored by school workers while being bullied. don't pretend as if they just shoot things out of the blue because they were feeling blue one day.
[QUOTE=JohnnyMo1;28203909]Nice argument I am totally convinced![/QUOTE] Does calling Libertarianism left-wing really merit a valid response? Fine then, i guess. [quote] One significant variable between libertarian schools of thought is the degree to which the state should be reduced, with minarchists advocating reduction to just state protection from aggression, theft, breach of contract, and fraud, and anarchists advocating complete elimination of the state. Another difference among libertarians is in groups who are supportive of private property rights in the ownership of land and natural resources and those who reject private individual ownership and often support communal ownership instead.[2][3] These are often grouped as right-libertarians and left-libertarians respectively.[4] "Right libertarianism" has been described as better-known.[5] However, many libertarians reject being described as either "left" or "right."[6][/quote] Starting from the third sentence on wikipedia, there. You can't even really call anarchists left wing because they're a diverse bunch as well. I could get into the merits of each one, discuss left and right wing ideologies but let's save that for another thread, then. Make it, I'll post in it. [QUOTE=thisispain;28203924]people who shoot up schools are mostly ones who were deprived of emotional support and often ignored by school workers while being bullied. don't pretend as if they just shoot things out of the blue because they were feeling blue one day.[/QUOTE] You can't blast me for making generalizations and then make an unfounded one like that, plenty of people were bullied in school but not all of them shoot it up. The problem is much deeper.
libertarianism was mostly built by left-wing liberal writers. it's not centrist and it's not right-wing. the founding fathers were most certainly liberals.
[QUOTE=thisispain;28204004]libertarianism was mostly built by left-wing liberal writers. it's not centrist and it's not right-wing. the founding fathers were most certainly liberals.[/QUOTE] You should discover the glaring differences between modern liberalism and classical liberalism.
[QUOTE=s0beit;28204060]You should discover the glaring differences between modern liberalism and classical liberalism.[/QUOTE] i think you should discover those glaring differences because what you described has nothing to do with modern liberalism. i'm gonna start quoting authors and get my books out about this shit. if by modern liberalism you mean social liberalism (I assume so because modern liberalism isn't really a school of thought) then i believe you are taking about center or center-left politics, which is a far cry from the idea of a left-wing. you do know what wing means right? i mean the idea of republicanism and democracy itself implies that the state is the prime-authority, so i don't think you really know what you are talking about when referring to left and right wing. protip: acorn isn't what people mean when they say left-wing
[QUOTE=thisispain;28204128]i think you should discover those glaring differences because what you described has nothing to do with modern liberalism. i'm gonna start quoting authors and get my books out about this shit. if by modern liberalism you mean social liberalism (I assume so because modern liberalism isn't really a school of thought) then i believe you are taking about center or center-left politics, which is a far cry from the idea of a left-wing. you do know what wing means right? i mean the idea of republicanism and democracy itself implies that the state is the prime-authority, so i don't think you really know what you are talking about when referring to left and right wing. protip: acorn isn't what people mean when they say left-wing[/QUOTE] [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nolan_Chart[/url] Things aren't always as simple as left and right, there is two other spectrums as well. Of course it does get more complex than that, even, I'm just saying that labeling things left and right because of a mix of these four spectrums isn't really going to clarify things. I may have been guilty of generalizing the left earlier in this thread (and I admit that, i understand not all leftists think uniformally) but you seem to be guilty of the same by slamming several conflicting philosophies together in a big heap.
yeah except i'm not a believer in the so-called nolan chart, you can classify philosophies by tracking where the ideas historically have come from i'm fully aware that libertarianism and anarchism are different, but that doesn't mean they aren't both part of a historical standard. when the term was invented during the french revolution it was used to refer people sitting on the left side, indicating they supported secularization and republicanism.
[QUOTE=thisispain;28204292]yeah except i'm not a believer in the so-called nolan chart, you can classify philosophies by tracking where the ideas historically have come from i'm fully aware that libertarianism and anarchism are different, but that doesn't mean they aren't both part of a historical standard. when the term was invented during the french revolution it was used to refer people sitting on the left side, indicating they supported secularization and republicanism.[/QUOTE] So what side of the 2 sided political spectrum do Republicans fall under? You are aware that the political orientation of both parties shifted radically around the time of the civil rights movement, where does it put them? Should we use the classic definition? I prefer to use modern definitions instead of drudging through history to label something totally incorrectly.
[QUOTE=s0beit;28204348]So what side of the 2 sided political spectrum do Republicans fall under? You are aware that the political orientation of both parties shifted radically around the time of the civil rights movement, where does it put them? Should we use the classic definition? I prefer to use modern definitions instead of drudging through history to label something totally incorrectly.[/QUOTE] republicans and democrats are both center-right
Regardless of the fact that most the people here are gun nuts in some way or another, violence and weapons do not belong in education AT ALL.
[QUOTE=s0beit;28203964]plenty of people were bullied in school but not all of them shoot it up.[/QUOTE] that's not even what i wrote, people who shoot up schools were always bullied in school
[QUOTE=thisispain;28204455]that's not even what i wrote, people who shoot up schools were always bullied in school[/QUOTE] Yes but the fact that their solution to the problem is to shoot up the schools is obviously where this problem occurs. I understand the need to discover the "why" and fix it, but it isn't quite as simple as it seems. What would your solution be?
[QUOTE=s0beit;28204483]What would your solution be?[/QUOTE] read how many warnings signs there were in these kids lives i mean one of the kids in colombine was gonna be searched for explosives but nobody even bothered to fill out a search warrant and nothing happened
[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;28202266]My biggest issue with giving everyone a gun would be the assumption that everybody is going to know who is the "bad guy" in a shooting. If you see 2 people shooting at each other in a public place, and you don't know anything about either of them or what's going on, how are you going to know who to shoot? What will you do? Will you do nothing? Will you shoot at them both? What if you do know what's going on and start shooting at the bad guy, and someone else sees that and starts shooting at you too, are you going to fire back at him? Maybe he's the bad guy's friend, or maybe he's a confused person who thinks [I]you[/I] are the bad guy. The potential for armed people to panic in that situation could make things backfire [B]hard[/B].[/QUOTE] If 2 people are shooting each other you get behind cover, observe until ether one of them gets shot or the police shows up
Move to Australia mate, our college shooters only take down one or two people before they're tackled.
The thought of all my classmates packing heat does not make me feel better, or safer especially that really ugly bitch in psych who basically decided she hates me Prepare for a columbine
[QUOTE=En-Guage V2;28204886]The thought of all my classmates packing heat does not make me feel better, or safer especially that really ugly bitch in psych who basically decided she hates me Prepare for a columbine[/QUOTE] Yes anybody who hates you with the means to kill will automatically without question you are an idiot
Nah, you're an idiot for thinking it's a good idea for everyone to be able to carry a firearm It's stupid and unnecessary
[QUOTE=En-Guage V2;28205578]Nah, you're an idiot for thinking it's a good idea for everyone to be able to carry a firearm It's stupid and unnecessary[/QUOTE] Everyone already can carry a firearm in Texas if they obtain a CCW, this is about where they are allowed to carry it. Plenty of people carry and there is no massacres or "OK corral" type events occurring so please, tell me why I'm stupid. You made a profoundly stupid statement and all you have presented is that you're a fear mongering moron with absolutely no logic behind your reasoning.
There is no reason for everyone to be able to carry a gun on a school campus It is stupid, and you're stupid for even thinking that something like this is a good idea. You give me one good reason why and then you'll prove why you're not an idiot.
[QUOTE=En-Guage V2;28205816]There is no reason for everyone to be able to carry a gun on a school campus It is stupid, and you're stupid for even thinking that something like this is a good idea. You give me one good reason why and then you'll prove why you're not an idiot.[/QUOTE] um, no, you're the one making the claim, so you back it up. all you've said here is "no it's stupid your idea sucks" which doesn't really sway anybody in your favor.
Okay I'll sum it up for you Why? Why in gods name would you NEED firearms on a school campus? You tell me what place they have, and not some pathetic reason like "In case you get mugged" or some shit. [editline]22nd February 2011[/editline] Some stupid reason like "to avoid another columbine" is ridiculous
[QUOTE=En-Guage V2;28206360]Okay I'll sum it up for you Why? Why in gods name would you NEED firearms on a school campus? You tell me what place they have, and not some pathetic reason like "In case you get mugged" or some shit. [editline]22nd February 2011[/editline] Some stupid reason like "to avoid another columbine" is ridiculous[/QUOTE] All I see is more straw men. How bout you provide a decent argument since your the one making the claim. Tell us WHY it's a stupid idea, not just "No fuck you it's stupid. ITS STUPID YOUR STUPID"
You still haven't given one good reason why
[QUOTE=En-Guage V2;28206534]You still haven't given one good reason why[/QUOTE] :downs: Let me spell it out for you: [B]YOU ARE THE ONE MAKING THE CLAIM, YOU GIVE YOUR ARGUMENT[/B]
[QUOTE=JaegerMonster;28206522]All I see is more straw men. How bout you provide a decent argument since your the one making the claim. Tell us WHY it's a stupid idea, not just "No fuck you it's stupid. ITS STUPID YOUR STUPID"[/QUOTE] but you're just telling him he doesn't have a decent argument so you guys are just eating each others shit [editline]22nd February 2011[/editline] ugh how about both of you stop and just let humanabyss take over
[QUOTE=thisispain;28206586]but you're just telling him he doesn't have a decent argument so you guys are just eating each others shit[/QUOTE] He doesn't have ANY argument, he's just saying that he thinks it's stupid. He hasn't said WHY he thinks its a stupid idea, he hasn't provided any argument for us to argue against or agree with. Everyone else who has posted (well most) have provided thoughts as to why they disagree or agree with the idea.
[QUOTE=En-Guage V2;28206534]You still haven't given one good reason why[/QUOTE] Yeah except you're kind of the one that wants things banned so that doesn't really work in this instance, you made the claim now back it up or get out 6 pages and no one has even attempted to do this legitimately
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