[QUOTE=JaegerMonster;28206583]:downs:
Let me spell it out for you:
[B]YOU ARE THE ONE MAKING THE CLAIM, YOU GIVE YOUR ARGUMENT[/B][/QUOTE]
Okay I'll tell you
A campus is a place of learning, somewhere where you would like to think you're fairly safe from attack.
There is no need to make it so everyone there can choose to carry a gun if they need to. It sends the wrong message, and it's stupid. There are absolutely no reasons WHY students and staff should NEED to carry weapons around at a school.
It makes no sense and you, the intelligent, well thought out person you are, has failed to even give one small example of WHY these people should be armed in the first place
[editline]22nd February 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=s0beit;28206601]Yeah except you're kind of the one that wants things banned so that doesn't really work in this instance, you made the claim now back it up or get out
6 pages and no one has even attempted to do this legitimately[/QUOTE]
Oh god your stupidity is making me want to hit my head against a desk
I never said I wanted anything banned numbnuts, I just said it wasn't practical
[QUOTE=JaegerMonster;28206597]He doesn't have ANY argument, he's just saying that he thinks it's stupid. He hasn't said WHY he thinks its a stupid idea, he hasn't provided any argument for us to argue against or agree with.
Everyone else who has posted (well most) have provided thoughts as to why they disagree or agree with the idea.[/QUOTE]
here's my point
you've just done the same thing
[QUOTE=En-Guage V2;28206608]Okay I'll tell you
A campus is a place of learning, somewhere where you would like to think you're fairly safe from attack.
There is no need to make it so everyone there can choose to carry a gun if they need to. It sends the wrong message, and it's stupid. There are absolutely no reasons WHY students and staff should NEED to carry weapons around at a school.
It makes no sense and you, the intelligent, well thought out person you are, has failed to even give one small example of WHY these people should be armed in the first place[/QUOTE]
What message? People shouldn't defend themselves or that they are too irresponsible to own a firearm? I'm asking a serious question with this by the way.
We have posted many reasons at the beginning of this topic and i can list them off if you like, you however have not posted one reason. You're just being a fucking child.
[QUOTE=thisispain;28206627]here's my point
you've just done the same thing[/QUOTE]
There is no point in arguing against something with no basis on reality, prove that CCW causes a clear and present danger and we can proceed.
Precisely
They say I'm stupid and at least I have a point to give
They're just like "Well ur wrong lul"
[editline]22nd February 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=s0beit;28206634]What message? People shouldn't defend themselves or that they are too irresponsible to own a firearm? I'm asking a serious question with this by the way.
We have posted many reasons at the beginning of this topic and i can list them off if you like, you however have not posted one reason. You're just being a fucking child.[/QUOTE]
Oh lawd you're an idiot
Owning a firearm and defending yourself are two different things. You're going off topic.
You really do not have even one decent response to give, relating to the topic at hand. We're not talking about guns at large here, people DO have a right to defend themselves and to own weapons
But at a school? At a school? Are you for real?
[QUOTE=En-Guage V2;28206637]But at a school? At a school? Are you for real?[/QUOTE]
A specific place on this planet where violent things occur the same as the rest of the world? Yeah.
School isn't some holy ground where people can do no wrong, people should have the right to have guns on campus the same way as they have the right to have guns in the rest of Texas. You haven't presented a reason why they shouldn't besides "OH LAWD YOU STUPID" like a 12 year old. Solid argument, I'm sure that'll win some hearts and minds.
You can get into the semantics of imaginary scenarios like your friends on page 4 or call people stupid all you like, until somebody actually starts basing their arguments on reality and not some dogma, irrational fear or general stupidity they'll get shit for it.
[QUOTE=En-Guage V2;28206637]Precisely
They say I'm stupid and at least I have a point to give
They're just like "Well ur wrong lul"
[editline]22nd February 2011[/editline]
Oh lawd you're an idiot
Owning a firearm and defending yourself are two different things. You're going off topic.
You really do not have even one decent response to give, relating to the topic at hand. We're not talking about guns at large here, people DO have a right to defend themselves and to own weapons
But at a school? At a school? Are you for real?[/QUOTE]
Playing devil's advocate here, because I am in fact not keen on the idea of large amounts of people all crammed into a classroom shooting in a chaotic environment, but I'll ask you, why not at college?
We're not talking about a bunch of hormonal school kids here, we're talking about adults who are legally allowed a CCW. Why does a place of learning have to infringe on their right to defend their selves?
[QUOTE=JaegerMonster;28206716]Playing devil's advocate here, because I am in fact not keen on the idea of large amounts of people all crammed into a classroom shooting in a chaotic environment, but I'll ask you, why not at college?
We're not talking about a bunch of hormonal school kids here, we're talking about adults who are legally allowed a CCW. Why does a place of learning have to infringe on their right to defend their selves?[/QUOTE]
Because a place of learning is safe and you don't need guns there. :downs:
So you think the only way to solve problems is with weapons, smooth.
My twelve year old "oh lawd" isn't nearly as stupid as your deep seated opinion to arm every single person on a school campus in Texas in order to solve their problems. I've been explaining to you why this entire time, you're just too busy talking outta your ass to listen.
"There is absolutely no need for weapons at a school. If there is no need, then why do it?" I'm not saying that the population of Texas is dumb enough to start shooting each other, I'm saying that if there is no need, than why?
You're obviously cleaning your closet armory as you read this, so once again, if there is no need for something, then why do it?
That post before pretty much means that you think that guns will HELP solve the problems there, and that my friend deserves a dumb
[QUOTE=En-Guage V2;28206732]So you think the only way to solve problems is with weapons, smooth.
My twelve year old "oh lawd" isn't nearly as stupid as your deep seated opinion to arm every single person on a school campus in Texas in order to solve their problems. I've been explaining to you why this entire time, you're just too busy talking outta your ass to listen.
"There is absolutely no need for weapons at a school. If there is no need, then why do it?" I'm not saying that the population of Texas is dumb enough to start shooting each other, I'm saying that if there is no need, than why?
You're obviously cleaning your closet armory as you read this, so once again, if there is no need for something, then why do it?[/QUOTE]
I didn't say i want to arm anyone, the people are already armed and aren't allowed to have guns on campus. That's it. It has nothing to do with arming every student in a college although in your feeble misguided imagination I'm sure that's what you imagine.
Nice non-argument and nice personal attack, you are dismissed. Thanks.
[QUOTE=JaegerMonster;28206716]Playing devil's advocate here, because I am in fact not keen on the idea of large amounts of people all crammed into a classroom shooting in a chaotic environment, but I'll ask you, why not at college?
We're not talking about a bunch of hormonal school kids here, we're talking about adults who are legally allowed a CCW. Why does a place of learning have to infringe on their right to defend their selves?[/QUOTE]
I don't think half of the time they need to defend themselves a gun is required.
You do not need a gun to solve a problem, I bet sometimes you do but most of the time they make things worse
[editline]22nd February 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=s0beit;28206747]I didn't say i want to arm anyone, the people are already armed and aren't allowed to have guns on campus. That's it. It has nothing to do with arming every student in a college although in your feeble misguided imagination I'm sure that's what you imagine.
Nice non-argument and nice personal attack, you are dismissed. Thanks.[/QUOTE]
Wow man, I wish I can grow up to be like you man
You're such a better form of life. Godspeed
Also thanks for taking the time to grace me with your knowledge.
[QUOTE=En-Guage V2;28206749]I don't think half of the time they need to defend themselves a gun is required.
You do not need a gun to solve a problem, I bet sometimes you do but most of the time they make things worse[/QUOTE]
I'm guessing this is based off of personal experience, some sort of study, numbers or some such thing right?
Nah that's just irrational, best to stick to our lesser instincts
I actually think you're the dumbest human being I've talked to in weeks
Have a winner
[QUOTE=En-Guage V2;28206772]I actually think you're the dumbest human being I've talked to in weeks
Have a winner[/QUOTE]
Asking for data to support your argument? I'm downright mentally handicapped
You still haven't actually given a reason yet why you think it should be like this, well aside from
"The rest of Texas can carry guns, why can't people on campuses?"
[QUOTE=En-Guage V2;28206749]I don't think half of the time they need to defend themselves a gun is required.
You do not need a gun to solve a problem, I bet sometimes you do but most of the time they make things worse
.[/QUOTE]
Well the thing is, on a college campus about the only time you will need your firearm in defense of life is to stop a situation like an active shooter. In such a scenario, you have only really two options: A) Kill him first or B) run and hide.
History has shown so far that option B hasn't really been that successful.
Hence my problem in the first place.
If you can lessen the amount of weapons that people can carry around? Why wouldn't you?
That way you can avoid the situation entirely, this is why I'm so glad my country's gun laws are so different to that of American states
[QUOTE=En-Guage V2;28206850]Hence my problem in the first place.
If you can lessen the amount of weapons that people can carry around? Why wouldn't you?
That way you can avoid the situation entirely[/QUOTE]While i'm not generally for guns in campuses, you did notice that the school shooters thus far have ignored no-gun zones, right?
[QUOTE=En-Guage V2;28206822]You still haven't actually given a reason yet why you think it should be like this, well aside from
"The rest of Texas can carry guns, why can't people on campuses?"[/QUOTE]
The issue is more that "People in Texas that carry guns legally are generally responsible, and allowing those people [B]who already carry [/B]guns carry on college campuses won't cause any harm, and if anything the citizens responsible enough to carry will be able to defend themselves better."
And before you jump to some ridiculous fantasy of me being some gun-crazy idiot, you should know that neither me nor anyone in my family owns a gun.
[QUOTE=En-Guage V2;28206850]Hence my problem in the first place.
If you can lessen the amount of weapons that people can carry around? Why wouldn't you?
That way you can avoid the situation entirely, this is why I'm so glad my country's gun laws are so different to that of American states[/QUOTE]
Yes but it's not like if a guy is intent on starting a massacre he's going to go "oh wait, can't take a firearm onto campus, that's illegal".
All you do when you remove the legally owned firearm, is, remove the legally owned firearm. There is literally nothing stopping a person from acquiring an illegal firearm, walking into a school and lighting the place up.
A person carrying at least represents a chance to stop that threat dead in its tracks. But again, I'm not keen on the idea of someone laying down return fire in a classroom while people are screaming their heads off and running like headless chickens.
That said, the alternative is no return fire and everyone just gets massacred anyway.
[QUOTE=En-Guage V2;28206822]You still haven't actually given a reason yet why you think it should be like this, well aside from
"The rest of Texas can carry guns, why can't people on campuses?"[/QUOTE]
Yes according to the law in Texas you can carry a concealed weapon, you need a permit to do it along with a clean criminal record, they are complying with the law. They have the right to defend themselves -- except on college campuses where it's prohibited.
The question shouldn't be, "why should we allow them to do this?" it is "why shouldn't we allow them to do this?", the law is currently in place and assertions are being made that this would make college campuses less secure or that "guns don't belong on college campuses", Obviously the second argument is totally void because it isn't really an argument at all, it's an opinion.
I'm asking for evidence to support the first argument, that this will cause people to shoot each other like rabid animals left and right because that seems to be a more legitimate concern that would be validated with some evidence supporting the claim.
That's all i want, no one has provided it. Just a lot of opinion, name calling and personal attacks.
You want to make (or maintain) a law banning something, forbidding something and you had better be able to back it up. I'm not making the claim that CCW cause mass crime and hysteria, your side is doing that. My side just wants people to have a right they have everywhere else in the state. Prove this is an illogical standpoint with data supporting your argument and we can all go home.
Again that's a good point
If you're going to shoot up a school, as long as you can locate some ammo and a gun before then I don't think the laws are really going to matter
[QUOTE=En-Guage V2;28206772]I actually think you're the dumbest human being I've talked to in weeks
Have a winner[/QUOTE]
This is 100% full retard here. He simply asked you for evidence for your argument of keeping the law as is, to keep guns banned on campuses. You must provide data for that position because you have not yet, and his evidence can't be taken directly from a place where the law hasn't been put into affect yet. Do you have any actual [B]evidence [/B]that this will make things less safe? I'm talking statistics, previous incidents, anything. Remember that you are in the position of saying that something should be banned.
[QUOTE=s0beit;28206884]Yes according to the law in Texas you can carry a concealed weapon, you need a permit to do it along with a clean criminal record, they are complying with the law. They have the right to defend themselves -- except on college campuses where it's prohibited.
The question shouldn't be, "why should we allow them to do this?" it is "why shouldn't we allow them to do this?", the law is currently in place and assertions are being made that this would make college campuses less secure or that "guns don't belong on college campuses", Obviously the second argument is totally void because it isn't really an argument at all, it's an opinion and it's based off of dogma.
I'm asking for evidence to support the first argument, that this will cause people to shoot each other like rabid animals left and right because that seems to be a more legitimate concern that would be validated with some evidence supporting the claim.
That's all i want, no one has provided it. Just a lot of opinion, name calling and personal attacks.
You want to make a law banning something, forbidding something and you had better be able to back it up. I'm not making the claim that CCW cause mass crime and hysteria, you are. Your side is doing that. My side just wants people to have a right they have everywhere else in the state. Prove this is an illogical standpoint with data supporting your argument and we can all go home.[/QUOTE]
Oh joy, a thought out response
Now let me bring you back to that original point bessie, I never remember saying "ban" anything. And I wouldn't mind at all if you'd stop putting words in my mouth for a second there.
What you're saying does make sense, and I'm not implying that the citizens of Texas will engage in a horrible shootout at the slightest things. I just don't think adding more of the problem will mean that it'll be necessarily solved.
So the original problem is guns in the first place, and I assume you think meaning that certain people can carry a weapon will solve it. Hm, yeah.
You're putting words in my mouth again champ, I never said people will shoot each other just because they can, I just think more guns won't solve the problem.
[editline]22nd February 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Megafanx13;28206907]This is 100% full retard here. He simply asked you for evidence for your argument of keeping the law as is, to keep guns banned on campuses. You must provide data for that position because you have not yet, and his evidence can't be taken directly from a place where the law hasn't been put into affect yet. Do you have any actual [B]evidence [/B]that this will make things less safe? I'm talking statistics, previous incidents, anything. Remember that you are in the position of saying that something should be banned.[/QUOTE]
Would you like me to google something for you buddy?
[QUOTE=En-Guage V2;28206936]Oh joy, a thought out response
Now let me bring you back to that original point bessie, I never remember saying "ban" anything. And I wouldn't mind at all if you'd stop putting words in my mouth for a second there.
What you're saying does make sense, and I'm not implying that the citizens of Texas will engage in a horrible shootout at the slightest things. I just don't think adding more of the problem will mean that it'll be necessarily solved.
So the original problem is guns in the first place, and I assume you think meaning that certain people can carry a weapon will solve it. Hm, yeah.
You're putting words in my mouth again champ, I never said people will shoot each other just because they can, I just think more guns won't solve the problem.
[editline]22nd February 2011[/editline]
Would you like me to google something for you buddy?[/QUOTE]
So you're not actually arguing against this, your just arguing firearms should be banned in general?
[QUOTE=En-Guage V2;28206936]Would you like me to google something for you buddy?[/QUOTE]
For me? No, for you, to support your argument.
[QUOTE=JaegerMonster;28206966]So you're not actually arguing against this, your just arguing firearms should be banned in general?[/QUOTE]
Oh god what, no I don't think they should be banned altogether
[editline]22nd February 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Megafanx13;28206973]For me? No, for you, to support your argument.[/QUOTE]
You seem quite mad, are you mad?
[QUOTE=En-Guage V2;28206936]Now let me bring you back to that original point bessie, I never remember saying "ban" anything. And I wouldn't mind at all if you'd stop putting words in my mouth for a second there.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=s0beit;28206884]You want to make (or maintain) a law banning something, forbidding something and you had better be able to back it up.[/QUOTE]
You are arguing as a proponent of maintaining the ban on concealed carry of firearms on-campus, so you are doing what he said. Not really putting words in your mouth.
[QUOTE=En-Guage V2;28206936]
You're putting words in my mouth again champ, I never said people will shoot each other just because they can, I just think more guns won't solve the problem.
[/QUOTE]
Fair enough but that isn't really the point. Should people be allowed to have the right to expand their right (which they already have) to carry a firearm to college campuses, if not, why not? That is the question, it isn't about solving a problem at all, if it does, good, but the question is if it is detrimental to society at large to allow such rights to exist in an arbitrary place such as a college campus.
[QUOTE=En-Guage V2;28206979]You seem quite mad, are you mad?[/QUOTE]
Not really seeing how you'd think that. Why on earth would I look up evidence for your argument?
I see
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