US debt crisis: Republicans abandon vote as deadline looms
285 replies, posted
[QUOTE='[sluggo];31415718']Entitlement programs don't keep people educated. That is the fine education system that everyone is required to take part in. If you actualy use your brain, you will do well. Then you can get schollarships into college. Hospitals are required to give medical care in emergency cases and although it may cost a whole lot later. You will have survived. People are more likely to be in the job market if they don't have a constant source of income outside of employment[/QUOTE]
Are you seriously living off the fears of the 'Welfare Queen' the GOP stirred up decades ago?
Dude... this is so bad. Give it to a UK resident straight, are we fucked?
[QUOTE='[sluggo];31415718']Entitlement programs don't keep people educated. That is the fine education system that everyone is required to take part in. If you actualy use your brain, you will do well. Then you can get schollarships into college. Hospitals are required to give medical care in emergency cases and although it may cost a whole lot later. You will have survived. People are more likely to be in the job market if they don't have a constant source of income outside of employment.
Sure we had horrible things happening in the thirties, but now, with our more advanced justice and education systems, that is less likely to happen. Personal success can depend entirly on the effort you put into achieving it.
As for taxes. The only state with no corporate tax (texas) has created half the jobs since the beginning of the recession. This state also has much less regulation and a more conservative economic system.
When it comes to regulation, There is such a thing as a happy medium. We need to have a minimum wage, a standard of quality, and a standard of safety. That however, is about all we need to have. Monopolies can be defeated if a better product is offered and is well distributed.[/QUOTE]
People can't get a job in this economy. And welfare income is worse than minimum wage IIRC. That's incentive enough to get a job but it's not just "they need to get a job" it's "they can't get a job."
[QUOTE='[sluggo];31415718']Entitlement programs don't keep people educated. That is the fine education system that everyone is required to take part in. If you actualy use your brain, you will do well. Then you can get schollarships into college. Hospitals are required to give medical care in emergency cases and although it may cost a whole lot later. You will have survived. People are more likely to be in the job market if they don't have a constant source of income outside of employment.
Sure we had horrible things happening in the thirties, but now, with our more advanced justice and education systems, that is less likely to happen. Personal success can depend entirly on the effort you put into achieving it.
As for taxes. The only state with no corporate tax (texas) has created half the jobs since the beginning of the recession. This state also has much less regulation and a more conservative economic system.
When it comes to regulation, There is such a thing as a happy medium. We need to have a minimum wage, a standard of quality, and a standard of safety. That however, is about all we need to have. Monopolies can be defeated if a better product is offered and is well distributed.[/QUOTE]
You are a retard that fails to see that people are a product of their environment and experiences, that abuse spawns more abuse, that system need to be implemented to help people who otherwise would have been guided by societal factors to crime. Get real.
I posted something about this on Facebook... ONE friend replied about how its the democrats fault for not passing the budget :suicide:
[QUOTE=Turnips5;31415805]Dude... this is so bad. Give it to a UK resident straight, are we fucked?[/QUOTE]
If we don't come up with a plan by August 2nd, it's just gonna start a very slow at first decline. Once the US Treasury runs out of funds, then it just becomes a cliff that we fall off.
[QUOTE=Turnips5;31415805]Dude... this is so bad. Give it to a UK resident straight, are we fucked?[/QUOTE]
Yes. The only thing that will save us is if the Republicans say "lol guys we were kidding let's make a deal". The chances of that happening are looking slimmer and slimmer each day. :(
[QUOTE=areolop;31415833]I posted something about this on Facebook... ONE friend replied about how its the democrats fault for not passing the budget :suicide:[/QUOTE]
Please show them my post and then politely tell them that they are wrong.
[QUOTE=Magistrate;31415831]You are a retard that fails to see that people are a product of their environment and experiences, that abuse spawns more abuse, that system need to be implemented to help people who otherwise would have been guided by societal factors to crime. Get real.[/QUOTE]
Many people have put in effort and climbed out of these situations without breaking a single law.
[QUOTE='[sluggo];31415881']Many people have put in effort and climbed out of these situations without breaking a single law.[/QUOTE]
If it's so easy why can't everyone else do it?
[QUOTE='[sluggo];31415881']Many people have put in effort and climbed out of these situations without breaking a single law.[/QUOTE]
Actually..
Withal, the socioeconomic status about which Roark spoke is not even a result of personal merit; rather, it is a result of the environment into which one is placed – a study conducted by the Economic Mobility Project found that “Only 6 percent of children born to parents with family income at the very bottom move to the very top.” Unless we are to believe that 94 percent of this large and ever-expanding group is wholly incompetent, lazy, or amoral, one must acknowledge a strong correlation exists between inherited class and realized class.
[editline]29th July 2011[/editline]
Yeah, 6 % Is an excellent success rate!
[QUOTE='[sluggo];31415718']Hospitals are required to give medical care in emergency cases and although it may cost a whole lot later. You will have survived.[/QUOTE]
Well that's fucking great, now you're alive but completely bankrupt and destitute.
[QUOTE=Turnips5;31415805]Dude... this is so bad. Give it to a UK resident straight, are we fucked?[/QUOTE]
No, the debt ceiling is gonna be raised - the republicans corporate lobbyists and their friends on Wall Street are shouting in their faces that it will be disastrous if it isn't. All of this is purely politics and dancing around the issue to create some drama - same with the Budget earlier this year - they came so close to the government shutting down and then magically came to an agreement. The only people who you should be truly scared of is the Tea Party representatives - they seriously don't understand what the Debt Ceiling actually is and keep thinking the American Government is a small business - but thankfully they are still a minority in the Republican party but the republicans are going to need democrat support as they can't rely on the tea party representatives.
A deal will be done by Monday.
[B]Could[/B] be history in the making right here
[QUOTE='[sluggo];31415881']Many people have put in effort and climbed out of these situations without breaking a single law.[/QUOTE]
Many have, most don't.
Key thing there. The current system in the US is fine for many poor people, but fails [i]most[/i]. That's not a democracy.
[QUOTE=Protocol7_2;31415929]If it's so easy why can't everyone else do it?[/QUOTE]
Because they don't have the detirmination, and they don't put in the effort.
[QUOTE='[sluggo];31415718']Entitlement programs don't keep people educated. That is the fine education system that everyone is required to take part in. If you actualy use your brain, you will do well. Then you can get schollarships into college. Hospitals are required to give medical care in emergency cases and although it may cost a whole lot later. You will have survived. People are more likely to be in the job market if they don't have a constant source of income outside of employment.
Sure we had horrible things happening in the thirties, but now, with our more advanced justice and education systems, that is less likely to happen. Personal success can depend entirly on the efort you put into achieving it.
As for taxes. The only state with no corporate tax (texas) has created half the jobs since the beginning of the recession. This state also has much less regulation and a more conservative economic system.
When it comes to regulation, There is such a thing as a happy medium. We need to have a minimum wage, a standard of quality, and a standard of safety. That however, is about all we need to have. Monopolies can be defeated if a better product is offered and is well distributed.[/QUOTE]
Firstly, if you believe that about the education system, or education in general, you are a fool. I'm also going to say that it's very difficult to pay off college through scholarships alone for the majority of people. I was a 3.7 GPA, honors student, member of the NHS and I still has to get a loan for several thousand dollars to pay off my mid-level university because even with my credentials I couldn't get it all paid off. I would be in a far worse boat if the government hadn't contributed money to me through FAFSA.
So I'm not sure what you;re thinking, because getting any education beyond high school is very costly if you plan on getting a degree and credentials worth anything in the current job market.
The "success is totally dependent on your effort" thing is a lie and complete bullshit. Circumstances and unseen things happen to knock you out of the game, not all people are equally able to participate, there is no level playing field and no one starts off at the same rung on the ladder.
Yea, I've heard that. I've also heard that Texas still has an 8.2% unemployment rate (which is on the higher end of the spectrum and has been increasing since 2008 according to Bureau of Labor Statistics), is 216 billion in debt, and is overall not too healthy.
And monopolies are notoriously difficult to defeat, even int he market. Regulation to prevent them is needed, and we know this from history.
[QUOTE='[sluggo];31416022']Because they don't have the detirmination, and they don't put in the effort.[/QUOTE]
Can you come up with a reason that isn't "Poor people are just lazy" ?
[QUOTE='[sluggo];31416022']Because they don't have the detirmination, and they don't put in the effort.[/QUOTE]
No, it's not, 6 percent of people succeed, the rest don't. You are spreading lies, stop and realize that people aren't born lazy and incompetent.
[QUOTE='[sluggo];31416022']Because they don't have the detirmination, and they don't put in the effort.[/QUOTE]
So out of the 9.2% unemployed Americans (just over 3 million), none of them have the determination to get a job?
Once the repubs get a bill through its gonna get rejected by the senate anyway, hurray for bipartisanship.
[QUOTE='[sluggo];31416022']Because they don't have the detirmination, and they don't put in the effort.[/QUOTE]
My grandfather had to drop out of school at 16 to help with labor at home because his family and his farm were doing poorly due to environmental issues. He never got an education and could not get a good job.
He joined the military as soon as possible because he hoped that it could help his and his family's financial situation or even his education once he got out. This was not the case. The government cut certain entitlements that included education and financial aid for veterans once Vietnam ended, which was only a few months after he joined the military.
With no proper education, and no income, he had to get a job. He worked 30+ years in heavy labor because it was the only job he could get. He could not afford to take the time to go back to school for a degree in anything. He needed the job to survive, he could not get a degree, pay of an education, or afford to leave his job. He was a wage slave.
My uncle works the same job. He has a high school education, but because of the poor background and low-income family, he was unable to afford a degree for anything more. He went into the same career as my grandfather, and worked along side him until my grandfather retired. (Oh, by the way, my grandfather and grandmother still have to work at home and sell what they make in order to live, because their retirement funds were cut thanks to the Republicans. They're both close to 70 years old and basically support themselves.) He had two kids, and they lived poorly.
He got a divorce, his wife got custody, but because of a situation concerning his ex, a boyfriend who swindled all their money from them before kicking off suddenly from a heart attack and leaving her pregnant with a baby that would be born with multiple medical problems and her unable to work due to severe back injury and pregnancy, he ends up giving the majority of his income to her to support his children. He works two jobs, one hard labor, one as a night shift gas station attendant in Saginaw, Michigan, the city that was rated #1 for violent crime int he nation last year. He suffers from multiple health problems and works at times 24 hours just to pull in enough money for his two kids and himself to survive.
So when you say that the poor are poor because they're lazy, you really need to start fucking thinking, asswipe, because that is not the case, and I know it. Maybe it seems that way form up on your high horse, looking down on all the lazy peasants, but from down here it looks really fucking different. My grandfather and uncle work harder every day than you probably will throughout most your life, so you had best know what the hell you're talking about first, and I would appreciate it if you'd not call the people who work like hell lazy. It's not as simple as "well if they worked harder herrrr". Shit happens, some people are unable to pull out of it.
You have no idea of the concept of wage slave.
snip double post
[QUOTE='[sluggo];31416488']Very costly, yes, but impossible? Obviously not. The whole education system is a gauntlet designed to test you. If you have the detirmination to, you can make it in America. although i'm not going to bother to look them up right now, you can find dozens of stories detailing such success. The whole time I was going through school, I knew people in horrible situations that got wonderful grades.
People have went from being well off middle class people, to living in a cardboard box. Others have went from the box, to a mansion.
There isn't a state in the nation who's unemployment rate hasn't gone up from 2008. Although the fiscal situation in texas isn't exactly wonderful, it has a debt to GDp ratio of 23%, while the ration of america is approaching 100.
[editline]29th July 2011[/editline]
Two sad stories, but in modern times situation are different. And now more than ever, success is possible. For anyone.[/QUOTE]
My uncle's is modern. He's int at situation now. He got divorced 4 years ago. My grandparents are int hat situation now. That is NOW, sluggo, not 40 years ago, NOW.
Also, as was previously said, those that start off int he boxes stay int he boxes, 94% of the time, so quite spouting lies. If anyone can get anywhere with just determination and effort, why aren't we all millionaires? It doesn't work like that, and that is a fact. Why aren't you a millionaire?
And it's 18%, not 23%, if my source is right. But I'll give you the benefit of the doubt on that one.
Oh yea, and determination doesn't suddenly get me 2000$ richer. And thank god for my government aid, or you're looking at 6k. Maybe you're rich enough to pay that sort of stuff off, but for me and everyone I know who come from a rural background int he middle of bum-fuck-nowhere between the three cities with the three worst economies in my state, which also all are on the top 15 list for worst economies int eh nation, it's not exactly easy to say "I think I'm going to have more effort today and get a job that doesn't exist while going to school and raise 6000$!" which is apparently exactly what you expect everyone to do.
I hate this government. I really do. I'm considering moving to Canada or Europe where some people in the government are actually smart.
America is a fucking mess, not to mention the tax is way to low for what obama wants and republicans will not increase it for shit.
Save at least 60% on the military.
Stop building houses for poor people and immigrants, they don't need it. [url]http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=07a_1311806515[/url]
Stop buying fucking iphones when you can't pay your damn bill.
I officially declare this argument
Facepunch v. Glaber and [sluggo]
Won in favor of Facepunch.
Now let's get back to talking about the issue at hand, which was about the impending debt crisis.
Also, I find it funny that [sluggo] the fiscal conservative has a socialist as his avatar.
[QUOTE=Elizer;31415471]Here we go Glaber, better read up and read up well.
[url=http://www.facepunch.com/threads/1109979-Boehner-Out-Debt-Talks-Collapse]All this "crisis" started with your good buddy, Mr. John Boehner, not compromising with President Obama on the debt ceiling.[/url] This caused a slight stir in Congress and threw up a few warning flags and sounded off an alarm. There was still plenty of time at that point to come up with a new deal, despite analysts saying [url=http://www.facepunch.com/threads/1110540-CBS-Bipartisan-debt-deal-just-impossible.-Meanwhile-China-seeks-to-repossess-Hawaii-and-S.-California-if-talks-fail]"Hmmm, fat chance in hell"[/url]. [url=http://www.facepunch.com/threads/1110783-New-US-debt-plans-unveiled-Democrats-offer-to-cut-more-than-twice-as-much-as-Republicans-and-not-to-raise-taxes-if-Medicare-and-Medicaid-are-left-alone]The Democrats came up with a plan that would include $2.7 trillion in tax cuts, including cuts to popular Democrat-supported programs. This was pretty much their last resort.[/url] Republicans went, "Yeeaa... that's not good enough". The next day, not only were [url=http://www.facepunch.com/threads/1110923-Tea-Party-activists-cheer-John-Boehner-to-drive-economy-to-ground.-Meanwhile-Canada-suspects-real-estate-boom-next-week.]Tea Party Activists cheering Boehner to make the deficit default[/url], but also the not-so-subtle hint of [url=http://www.facepunch.com/threads/1111024-Republican-Rep.-warns-of-Obama-impeachment-if-GOP-forces-debt-default]a really bad case being thrown together to get Obama impeached.[/url]
Now sure, both the [url=http://www.facepunch.com/threads/1111330-Embarrassment-for-John-Boehner-after-budget-office-finds-350bn-hole-in-his-original-proposal]Republican[/url] and [url=http://www.facepunch.com/threads/1111559-Democrats-Budget-Cuts-Fall-Short-of-Estimate]Democrat[/url] plans seemed to have their holes, but for the most part, the Democrats have been the ones, trudging through Republican bullshit in an attempt to save the floundering economy. Yet, it seems Glaber, in your little fantasy world, that it's all the Democrats fault. [url=http://www.facepunch.com/threads/1111484-McCain-rips-into-tea-party-lawmakers-and-other-conservatives-accusing-them-of-living-in-a-fantasy-world]Even McCain says to "Shut the fuck up and nut up, because we gotta get this shit done."[/url][/QUOTE]
Where's the source on the first link?
Link 2: i can't think of anything to say about it except for: do we even have the trans scrips for what went on back there?
The plan in link 3 was for 2.7 trillion over 10 years. We already spend at a rate faster than that! no wonder Republicans rejected it. Apparently, Democrats what to spend faster than they can either save or earn. (if you can call it earning for either side)
Link 4 to me just shoes that this isn't 1995 all over again. If it was, this deal would be done already. (See what a differance Fox news can make?)
Link 5 seemed to deal with Obamna's empty threats and the threat of impeachment. Those Social Security checks Will go out regardless. Otherwise, Obama is the one held responsible for Actually not paying Senior Citizens their SS checks.
Links 6 and 7 just show bad math from both sides. Also I don't support Boehner's plan. What I support is Cut, Cap, and Balance.
the final link was Mc Cain complaining about his party.
Not one of these links lead to a bill by Obama.
That's what I want to see.
For contrast, here's Boehner's bill: [url]http://nationaljournal.com/congress/document-latest-versions-of-boehner-reid-bills-20110729[/url]
[url]http://rules.house.gov/Legislation/legislationDetails.aspx?NewsID=442[/url]
So what happens after this? Will we default on the debt? What happens then?
[QUOTE=Unreliable;31417000]So what happens after this? Will we default on the debt? What happens then?[/QUOTE]
The government kicks your door in and sell your mac on ebay.
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