• Videogames need to Join the mainstream, or Become Comic Books
    108 replies, posted
[quote]"I hope we can break free of the content of comic books."[/quote] What does this even mean? :colbert:
[QUOTE=Swilly;24116078]So he's saying comic books are simplistic art?[/QUOTE] No he's saying that video games are viewed the same way as comic books are in the mainstream, as simplistic art with repetitive, unintellectual storylines, and this view could push video games into the same sort of artificial niche market that comic books exist in, widely viewed to be either the realm of children or of moronic meatheads.. He wants video games to move beyond the image that MW and Halo and CoD portray, into a more complex and varied storytelling medium that cinema is viewed as being. He's Warren Spector, goddamn it, there's no way he could be arguing for dumbing down games or making them casual. He created fucking Deus Ex :psyduck: [QUOTE=77boy84;24116103]What does this even mean? :colbert:[/QUOTE] It means the fucking line it came from, that's what: [QUOTE] "If we don't break out of the big buff guys with swords, and guys in tights, and space marines in armor, we're going to get marginalized the way that comic books have been in the United States," Spector said, according to reports. "I hope we can break free of the content of comic books."[/QUOTE] What's hard to grasp about this?
[QUOTE=Xen Tricks;24116193]No he's saying that video games are viewed the same way as comic books are in the mainstream, as simplistic art with repetitive, unintellectual storylines, and this view could push video games into the same sort of artificial niche market that comic books exist in, widely viewed to be either the realm of children or of moronic meatheads.. He wants video games to move beyond the image that MW and Halo and CoD portray, into a more complex and varied storytelling medium that cinema is viewed as being. He's Warren Spector, goddamn it, there's no way he could be arguing for dumbing down games or making them casual. He created fucking Deus Ex :psyduck:[/QUOTE] That was a long time ago....he's not working on Deus Ex:Human Revolution? IS he? He's working on remaking Mickey Mouse in epic Mickey. I'm no doubting his credability. But I'm going into game design as my career choice for college. And even when we had the complex story lines(Which Mass Effect has) we still get blown off. Half Life? Half Life 2? the Orange Box? What about S.T.A.L.K.E.R? The main stream HATES complex stories...its rare that anything main stream gets a complex story line. Hell! Grand Theft Auto usually has a decent storyline of its own but everyone just talks about running pedestrians over.
[QUOTE=Xen Tricks;24116193] What's hard to grasp about this?[/QUOTE] Well, it sounds like he's saying comics are all just shit like "buff guys with swords" and "space marines in armor" when that's really not true at all. It's hard to grasp for me, because it's just so blatantly wrong.
Good. I want games to be a niche market. [sp]WARREN SPECTOR HAS FINALLY FUCKING LOST IT. HE PROBABLY THINKS DEUS EX IS A DOCUMENTARY BY NOW[/sp]
[QUOTE=77boy84;24116307]Well, it sounds like he's saying comics are all just shit like "buff guys with swords" and "space marines in armor" when that's really not true at all. It's hard to grasp for me, because it's just so blatantly wrong.[/QUOTE] But comic books are perceived in that way, ask someone random about comic books and they think of buff spandex wearing heroes such as superman or spider man. Also buff guys with swords and space marines comments were directed at games not comics
[QUOTE=JohnnyMo1;24115452]They ARE mainstream.[/QUOTE]
I'm sure all disney computer games are absolute piles of steaming shit anyway.
[QUOTE=Fusilero1;24116340]But comic books are perceived in that way, ask someone random about comic books and they think of buff spandex wearing heroes such as superman or spider man.[/QUOTE] They are perceived that way, yeah. However his line "I hope we can break free of the content of comic books." makes it sound like HE thinks that too.
[QUOTE=Swilly;24116272]That was a long time ago....he's not working on Deus Ex:Human Revolution? IS he? He's working on remaking Mickey Mouse in epic Mickey. I'm no doubting his credability. But I'm going into game design as my career choice for college. And even when we had the complex story lines(Which Mass Effect has) we still get blown off. Half Life? Half Life 2? the Orange Box? What about S.T.A.L.K.E.R? The main stream HATES complex stories...its rare that anything main stream gets a complex story line. [B]Hell! Grand Theft Auto usually has a decent storyline of its own but everyone just talks about running pedestrians over[/B].[/QUOTE] Fucking exactly, that's what I mean. He's not talking about what all video games are, or what all mainstream games are, he's talking about the sort of mainstream content over the ages that has led to that perception. He wants games to be seen as more than that kind of content, and he's worried if they don't they'll become involuntarily niche. You don't hear people saying "So and so movie is just killing people", do you? Movies are seen as a widely varied and accepted art form, unlike comics, and that's what he's wanting them to be.
[QUOTE=77boy84;24116366]They are perceived that way, yeah. However his line "I hope we can break free of the content of comic books." makes it sound like HE thinks that too.[/QUOTE] I can see how people can interpret this in the wrong way but he isn't taking a jab at games or comic books, he wants to change the perception of games GTA actually has a really interesting story with various themes and characterizations, but people just see it as nothing more then murdering innocents 24/7, he doesn't want the same mainstream perception of comic books being one kind of dumb thing to apply to games as well.
[QUOTE=77boy84;24116366]They are perceived that way, yeah. However his line "I hope we can break free of the content of comic books." makes it sound like HE thinks that too.[/QUOTE] He doesn't, he just thinks the most prominent examples and most mainstream ones are. You're not going to get some "layperson" knowing about Warren Ellis or some other complex and artworthy comic, the same as you're not (likely) going to get a layperson to know about Shadow Of the Colossus or Ico or some other such game. They're going to think Halo and MW and CoD and shooting and killing people, and that's pretty much it. [QUOTE=Fusilero1;24116413]I can see how people can interpret this in the wrong way but he isn't taking a jab at games or comic books, he wants to change the perception of games GTA actually has a really interesting story with various themes and characterizations, but people just see it as nothing more then murdering innocents 24/7, he doesn't want the same mainstream perception of comic books being one kind of dumb thing to apply to games as well.[/QUOTE] EXACTLY! Thank god someone else gets it
[QUOTE=Xen Tricks;24116373]Fucking exactly, that's what I mean. He's not talking about what all video games are, or what all mainstream games are, he's talking about the sort of mainstream content over the ages that has led to that perception. He wants games to be seen as more than that kind of content, and he's worried if they don't they'll become involuntarily niche. You don't hear people saying "So and so movie is just killing people", do you? Movies are seen as a widely varied and accepted art form, unlike comics, and that's what he's wanting them to be.[/QUOTE] So wait.....I'm confused now. How are we going to break free of this when I just see movies as big titted bimbos getting hack and slashed?
[QUOTE=Swilly;24116449]So wait.....I'm confused now. How are we going to break free of this when I just see movies as big titted bimbos getting hack and slashed?[/QUOTE] That pretty obviously doesn't reflect the mainstream perception, then. Movies aren't viewed as that simplistic among most people, I would imagine. And besides, the horror gorn genre's died out in the past couple years EDIT: This was a comment on the article: [QUOTE] by [URL="http://www.cnet.com/profile/cometman7/"]cometman7[/URL] August 16, 2010 1:10 PM PDT "games are not about the magic moment--they're about the repeated action." Says the guy who's biggest hit was the co-publishing of Kingdom Hearts.[/QUOTE] :wrongful:
[QUOTE=NorthernFall;24116346]I'm sure all disney computer games are absolute piles of steaming shit anyway.[/QUOTE] [img]http://i33.tinypic.com/149v7zl.gif[/img]
Funny how the best games out there are rarely mainstream... To make an example, STALKER could be considered modern art, yet a small elite of people actually know about the series' existance... On the other hand, everybody knows about games like Halo or MW2, yet they are pretty much mediocre.
[quote]Disney game developer Warren Spector[/quote] he sounds like a very reputable and knowledgeable authority on video games
[QUOTE=Xen Tricks;24115528]Notice how it's Warren Spector, one of the best/most brilliant game developers ever, who's worked on System Shock, Thief, Wing Commander, Ultima, and created fucking Deus Ex. He's also working on Epic Mickey, which despite being a Disney game has been almost universally anticipated. So he's not just a "disney game dev" :colbert: And he's not calling for making all games casual, he's saying we need to break out of the simplistic machismo oriented gametype that's been the norm since Doom and branch out to more creative areas, and work to make that creativity the mainstream[/QUOTE] I was gonna say this, thanks. You don't diss Warren Spector without good reason, fool.
Wait so the dude is actually scared to offend people? Then he can get fucked, he's a spineless pussy who has no place in any creative industry.
[QUOTE=Kalibos;24117067]he sounds like a very reputable and knowledgeable authority on video games[/QUOTE] And you sound like you know shit about the game industry Protip: Spector is up there with Carmack so far as repute goes in the industry. He's the Anti-Romero, of sorts. [editline]04:58PM[/editline] [QUOTE=bravehat;24117136][B]Wait so the dude is actually scared to offend people?[/B] Then he can get fucked, he's a spineless pussy who has no place in any creative industry.[/QUOTE] [B]What.[/B] How did you get that idea? EDIT: Does this sound like someone who doesn't know what they're talking about: [QUOTE][B] Video games[/B] [LIST] [*][I][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wing_Commander_%28video_game%29"]Wing Commander[/URL][/I] (1990), ORIGIN Systems [*][I][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wing_Commander_%28video_game%29#Wing_Commander:_Secret_Missions"]Wing Commander: The Secret Missions[/URL][/I] (1990), ORIGIN Systems [*][I][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultima_VI:_The_False_Prophet"]Ultima VI: The False Prophet[/URL][/I] (1990), ORIGIN Systems [*][I][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Bad_Blood_%28video_game%29&action=edit&redlink=1"]Bad Blood[/URL][/I] (1990), ORIGIN Systems [*][I][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wing_Commander_II:_Vengeance_of_the_Kilrathi"]Wing Commander II: Vengeance of the Kilrathi[/URL][/I] (1991), ORIGIN Systems [*][I][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wing_Commander_%28video_game%29#Wing_Commander:_Secret_Missions_2:_Crusade"]Wing Commander: The Secret Missions 2 - Crusade[/URL][/I] (1991), ORIGIN Systems [*][I][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martian_Dreams"]Ultima: Worlds of Adventure 2: Martian Dreams[/URL][/I] (1991), ORIGIN Systems [*][I][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultima_Underworld:_The_Stygian_Abyss"]Ultima Underworld: The Stygian Abyss[/URL][/I] (1992), ORIGIN Systems [*][I][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadowcaster"]Shadowcaster[/URL][/I] (1993), ORIGIN Systems (Uncredited)[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_spector#cite_note-8"][9][/URL] [*][I][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultima_Underworld_II:_Labyrinth_of_Worlds"]Ultima Underworld II: Labyrinth of Worlds[/URL][/I] (1993), ORIGIN Systems [*][I][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wing_Commander_%28franchise%29#Righteous_Fire_.281994_expansion.29"]Wing Commander: Privateer - Righteous Fire[/URL][/I] (1993), ORIGIN Systems [*][I][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultima_VII#Part_Two:_Serpent_Isle"]Ultima VII, Part Two: Serpent Isle[/URL][/I] (1993), ORIGIN Systems [*][I][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultima_VII#Part_Two:_Serpent_Isle"]Ultima VII, Part Two: The Silver Seed[/URL][/I] (1993), Electronic Arts [*][I][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wings_of_Glory"]Wings of Glory[/URL][/I] (1993), Electronic Arts [*][I][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/System_Shock"]System Shock[/URL][/I] (1994), Looking Glass Technologies [*][I][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CyberMage:_Darklight_Awakening"]CyberMage: Darklight Awakening[/URL][/I] (1995), ORIGIN Systems [*][I][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crusader_%28game_series%29"]Crusader: No Remorse[/URL][/I] (1995), ORIGIN Systems [*][I][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thief:_The_Dark_Project"]Thief: The Dark Project[/URL][/I] (1998), Looking Glass Studios [*][I][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deus_Ex"]Deus Ex[/URL][/I] (2000), Ion Storm Austin [*][I][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deus_Ex:_Invisible_War"]Deus Ex: Invisible War[/URL][/I] (2003), Ion Storm Austin [*][I][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thief:_Deadly_Shadows"]Thief: Deadly Shadows[/URL][/I] (2004), Ion Storm Austin [*][I][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epic_Mickey"]Epic Mickey[/URL][/I] (2010), Disney Interactive Studios [/LIST] Spector is usually credited as a producer, except for [I]Deus Ex[/I] on which he is also credited as project director. [/QUOTE]
we're talking about warren spector here, he worked on system shock (which turned into bioshock) and deus ex [editline]06:03PM[/editline] i'd trust what he says
[QUOTE=Kalibos;24117067]he sounds like a very reputable and knowledgeable authority on video games[/QUOTE] dude, he made Deus Ex. stfu. [editline]11:07PM[/editline] he made thief [editline]11:07PM[/editline] he made one of the ultima games for fucks sake [editline]11:08PM[/editline] i'd say he's a pretty reputable authority on the matter
buisnessmen, making IT and video gaming shit since 2000.
Seriously, he made System Shock. think before you post. [editline]11:08PM[/editline] automorge
Modern Warfare is about as mainstream as it gets. That being said, I don't want video games to turn mainstream.
If anybody else was saying this shit i'd call bullshit. But warren spector is pretty coo' [editline]11:11PM[/editline] [QUOTE=kevlar jens;24117565]Modern Warfare is about as mainstream as it gets. That being said, I don't want video games to turn mainstream.[/QUOTE] [editline]11:12PM[/editline] [QUOTE=bravehat;24117136]Wait so the dude is actually scared to offend people? Then he can get fucked, he's a spineless pussy who has no place in any creative industry.[/QUOTE] i died on the inside
MAss Effect IS a film, its just in game format
[QUOTE=bravehat;24117136]Wait so the dude is actually scared to offend people? Then he can get fucked, he's a spineless pussy who has no place in any creative industry.[/QUOTE] Do some research, god.
seriously, almost nobody knows who Warren Spector is?
[QUOTE=The Mighty Boatman;24117647]seriously, almost nobody knows who Warren Spector is?[/QUOTE] I think everyone just read 'Disney' and balked
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