Four Metropolitan Police Officers stabbed in London
121 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Vasili;33356536]giving officers guns will just encourage criminals to start using guns more.[/QUOTE]
the why has this consistently been disproven in the US
not using guns encourages criminals to use guns since it means they know that the officer can't shoot back
This is why police officers carry firearms.
1 murderer dead, 4 cops alive and uninjured.
Where is the negative?
[editline]20th November 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Falchion;33360044]If they had been US cops the guy would've been gunned down.[/QUOTE]
And he rightfully should have been.
[editline]20th November 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=AK'z;33355147]No need, if you carry something that even LOOKS like an offensive weapon here you will be arrested.[/QUOTE]
uhh usually criminals don't care?
I don't think they are afraid of the law
For those debating whether or not firearms are used extensively in the UK, let me put your minds at rest. (All I can say is that I'm in the setup somewhere).
Officers do not carry guns except various armed response units, of which there are at least 30 different names and levels of training, but all of which do pretty much the same job.
Those of you that have seen armed officers in London, 'The Met' are a seperate force in the way they are organised.
You have the Metropolitan Police that cover most of London and have a different approach to arming the police due to being located in the capital city.
You also have the City of London, whose officers are 35% funded by the institutions located there, and not only have much more modern and sophisticated equipment, but also have a certain duty to keep the corporations safe whuch means they too have a different structure and guidelines to armed officers.
Overall, arming too many police officers is just a bad idea. We have knife crime, but OST (Officer Safety training) allows its members to counter that and keep it to a relatively safe level. These officers were just extremely unfortunate.
ITT : Americans confused as to why we don't have gun-toting constables yet so far we've been fine without them
[QUOTE=Instant Mix;33361164]ITT : Americans confused as to why we don't have gun-toting constables yet so far we've been fine without them[/QUOTE]
I was just going to say this. It's so rare for anything to get that out of hand in the UK that firearms would be required, and in those situations they're usually made available in decent time
[QUOTE=Instant Mix;33361164]ITT : Americans confused as to why we don't have gun-toting constables yet so far we've been fine without them[/QUOTE]
yeah a 4:1 police/criminal incapacitated ratio is really efficient
if british cops arent allowed to have guns then they should at least be given swords or halberds or something
[QUOTE=Tunak Mk. II;33361564]yeah a 4:1 police/criminal incapacitated ratio is really efficient
if british cops arent allowed to have guns then they should at least be given swords or halberds or something[/QUOTE]
You're joking right?
though I do have to admit that a longsword will more than intimidate a guy with a knife :v:
[QUOTE=Tunak Mk. II;33361564]yeah a 4:1 police/criminal incapacitated ratio is really efficient
if british cops arent allowed to have guns then they should at least be given swords or halberds or something[/QUOTE]
Fact is, we're not in a situation to increase funding to cater for each officer to be armed, trained, and to provide storage areas for the firearms. Even then, we only need armed officers occasionally, they're only called out a few times a week in a given area, and most are false alarms. It's not like we are dropping dead left right and center due to armed hooligans, it's ocasional, tragic crimes. The gain against the cost just isn't worth it, here at least. Also, different cultures, what we percieve is different to what an American will percieve.
this is a fucking sham of a thread.
four officers got injured stopping a man who could have killed somebody.
Give them a pat on the back, because they might have just saved a life, and be happy that no one else was killed/injured.
or we could just have the same fucking gun control argument AGAIN, and continue to mindlessly complain about the police
Wow really, no guns? That's really bad for officers who want to defend themselves, do they even have tasers?
Cause if they don't have a taser how can they be decent police officers.
[QUOTE=Terminutter;33361670]Fact is, we're not in a situation to increase funding to cater for each officer to be armed, trained, and to provide storage areas for the firearms. Even then, we only need armed officers occasionally, they're only called out a few times a week in a given area, and most are false alarms. It's not like we are dropping dead left right and center due to armed hooligans, it's ocasional, tragic crimes. The gain against the cost just isn't worth it, here at least. Also, different cultures, what we percieve is different to what an American will percieve.[/QUOTE]
*Armed man walks into store says he will kill everyone*
"Its okay! I have a gun, I'm a cop!"
or..
"I have a nightstick!"
I don't see why you people are so against having your cops wield firearms. Even the poorest countries have armed police, fuck.. even Bicycle cops have Glock17 on one side and a taser on the other here.
Jeez, U.K is such a pussy on guns laws.They used to be cool but now they think tasers are firearms.
[QUOTE=doonbugie2;33361884]*Armed man walks into store says he will kill everyone*
"Its okay! I have a gun, I'm a cop!"
or..
"I have a nightstick!"
I don't see why you people are so against having your cops wield firearms. Even the poorest countries have armed police.[/QUOTE]
in that situation armed police [I]would[/I] be dispatched
[QUOTE=strayebyrd;33361914]in that situation armed police [I]would[/I] be dispatched[/QUOTE]
I think he means when there's a officer already there...
[QUOTE=lolo;33361839]Wow really, no guns? That's really bad for officers who want to defend themselves, do they even have tasers?
Cause if they don't have a taser how can they be decent police officers.[/QUOTE]
Tasers are only used by firearms officers.
We seem to have decent cops without needing to arm them. At least, even considering our small size, we have less police brutality threads proportionally, and you know how bad our media is.
Even then, the times that tasers or firearms are needed are rare enough that having fast response teams works out significantly cheaper, and we still only have a few tragic deaths that would happen, even if all officers were armed. I mean, most cops in the US have guns, and they still die at a pretty high rate.
And again, you are overestimating a risk. Would you spend billions if it stopped 10 people being hit by lightning every year?
[QUOTE=Terminutter;33361930]Tasers are only used by firearms officers.
We seem to have decent cops without needing to arm them. At least, even considering our small size, we have less police brutality threads proportionally, and you know how bad our media is.
Even then, the times that tasers or firearms are needed are rare enough that having fast response teams works out significantly cheaper, and we still only have a few tragic deaths that would happen, even if all officers were armed. I mean, most cops in the US have guns, and they still die at a pretty high rate.[/QUOTE]
It's always a necessity to have one.You never know if someone else has a gun.Also police brutality is based on individual action not counted all together.
Firearms for cops are a fair thing to give.
[QUOTE=Terminutter;33361930]Tasers are only used by firearms officers.
We seem to have decent cops without needing to arm them. At least, even considering our small size, we have less police brutality threads proportionally, and you know how bad our media is.
Even then, the times that tasers or firearms are needed are rare enough that having fast response teams works out significantly cheaper, and we still only have a few tragic deaths that would happen, even if all officers were armed. I mean, most cops in the US have guns, and they still die at a pretty high rate.[/QUOTE]
Thats because there are a fuck ton of police in the US compared to UK?
Take Canada's police force as a model for what I'm trying to say, most of the cops here are extremely friendly/work for the community.. they all have guns and I don't think I've ever seen a cop get killed this year in the news. To counter your argument, we have less police brutality threads then you :v
[QUOTE=Itsjustguy;33361961]It's always a necessity to have one.You never know if someone else has a gun.Also police brutality is based on individual action not counted all together.
Firearms for cops are a fair thing to give.[/QUOTE]
How are they a necessity when statistically they will be needed by only one officer in every hundred or so?
As I said, if we needed them, we'd have them.
[QUOTE=lolo;33361922]I think he means when there's a officer already there...[/QUOTE]
okay I'm not really sure why this guy is entering a shop where there's a police officer, but that's such an unlikely situation that they don't feel the need to actively prepare for it. Firearms are ridiculously hard to get ahold of for the average person, even illegally it's difficult. Have you ever noticed how there's barely ever news threads relating to shootings in England? That's because they don't happen with the intensity and numbers that they have in America. Our beat police are more than prepared to deal with your average everyday threat, and if some extraordinary circumstances arise, then the appropriate forces are dispatched. We do just fine, from what experience I've had with the police, they can restrain and detain you without any hastle
[QUOTE=Terminutter;33361930]Tasers are only used by firearms officers.
We seem to have decent cops without needing to arm them. At least, even considering our small size, we have less police brutality threads proportionally, and you know how bad our media is.
Even then, the times that tasers or firearms are needed are rare enough that having fast response teams works out significantly cheaper, and we still only have a few tragic deaths that would happen, even if all officers were armed. I mean, most cops in the US have guns, and they still die at a pretty high rate.
And again, you are overestimating a risk. Would you spend billions if it stopped 10 people being hit by lightning every year?[/QUOTE]
Actually tasers can be a effective stun weapon on just normal cops, if you're being attacked you can just whip it out, and quickly save yourself from a deadly attack. Some tasers out there might even cost [B]Less[/B] than lethal firearms, and it gives you the advantage over a opponent especially when he's already on the ground, then you can continue to tie/cuff him once you're right over him.
[QUOTE=Terminutter;33361980]How are they a necessity when statistically they will be needed by only one officer in every hundred or so?
As I said, if we needed them, we'd have them.[/QUOTE]
You're being ignorant, one in every hundred-but which one in that hundred is going to need a lethal to take down a armed criminal. Chances are those armed police aren't going to arrive quick enough and that cop is going to be there yelling at the criminal to put down his gun with a damn baton in his hand.
[QUOTE=lolo;33362010]Actually tasers can be a effective stun weapon on just normal cops, if you're being attacked you can just whip it out, and quickly save yourself from a deadly attack. Some tasers out there might even cost [B]Less[/B] than lethal firearms, and it gives you the advantage over a opponent especially when he's already on the ground, then you can continue to tie/cuff him once you're right over him.[/QUOTE]
But no tasers OR lethal firearms is even cheaper than just tasers. The nightstick is pretty much all an officer needs, if he needs more than that, why is he alone? And even then, this is one crime in a massive amount that requires a weapon, so it is uneconomical.
And doonbugie, would you endorse wearing a faraday cage 24/7 to avoid lightning strikes? It's the same logic, considering the probabilities.
[QUOTE=Terminutter;33362062]But no tasers OR lethal firearms is even cheaper than just tasers. The nightstick is pretty much all an officer needs, if he needs more than that, why is he alone? And even then, this is one crime in a massive amount that requires a weapon, so it is uneconomical.[/QUOTE]
Your countries police force is really struggling if they cannot maintain arms for every officer along with training and storage because of money.
[QUOTE=Terminutter;33362062]Blabber about expensiveness[/QUOTE]
[img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6c/Walther_P99_9x19mm.png/300px-Walther_P99_9x19mm.png[/img] [img]http://swords-usa.com/images/1707.jpg[/img]
Tell me who would win. You can just hire a certain ammount of officers so you can save money you know.
Terminutter, you're being a bit strange/against common sense.A 190+ Joule weapon that goes around 500 m/s versus a night stick ? Ye right.That nightstick will win...right ?
I don't know who?
[QUOTE=doonbugie2;33362085]Your countries police force is really struggling if they cannot maintain arms for every officer along with training and storage because of money.[/QUOTE]
The UK's economy is in shit, and we all know it.
The police aren't even recruiting, let alone upgrading. (if you consider a firearm to be an upgrade)
And strange or against common sense? Common sense dictates that you don't bother preparing for something with a minescule chance of happening. The nightstick officer won't win, but why is he sticking around? He should be in his car, calling for an armed response team.
You seem to think that your average cop should be prepared for quite literally anything, as opposed to the mundane. Cops aren't an unstoppable juggernaught of justice, they are just normal people doing a job, and there are rare situations that they can't deal with, so they retreat and call in people who can do it.
[QUOTE=Itsjustguy;33362110]Terminutter, you're being a bit strange/against common sense.A 190+ Joule weapon that goes around 500 m/s versus a night stick ? Ye right.That nightstick will win...right ?[/QUOTE]
No! the nightstick cop will do fucking crazy ninja moves and block the bullets with it.
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