Four Metropolitan Police Officers stabbed in London
121 replies, posted
[QUOTE=lolo;33362087][img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6c/Walther_P99_9x19mm.png/300px-Walther_P99_9x19mm.png[/img] [img]http://swords-usa.com/images/1707.jpg[/img]
Tell me who would win[/QUOTE]
should we be equipping our social services officers with firearms as well? My dad's workmate was decapitiated like 10 years ago by a deranged and unstable father, are we handing out sidearms to them as well? I just want to know where the line is drawn when it comes to who needs a gun.
[QUOTE=strayebyrd;33362139]should we be equipping our social services officers with firearms as well? My dad's workmate was decapitiated like 10 years ago by a deranged and unstable father, are we handing out sidearms to them as well? I just want to know where the line is drawn when it comes to who needs a gun.[/QUOTE]
Cops, social service workers dont usually serve to protect.
[QUOTE=Terminutter;33362115]The UK's economy is in shit, and we all know it.
The police aren't even recruiting, let alone upgrading. (if you consider a firearm to be an upgrade)
And strange or against common sense? Common sense dictates that you don't bother preparing for something with a minescule chance of happening.[/QUOTE]
Guns don't cost that much if you're equipping an entire police force.You already have already some stuff from the army you can give to them.
Guns cost around 200 Pounds.Now since you're buying 10'000 guns for a region police force expect the price to go down by 40 pounds per gun.Ofcourse depending on the maker.
[QUOTE=strayebyrd;33362139]should we be equipping our social services officers with firearms as well? My dad's workmate was decapitiated like 10 years ago by a deranged and unstable father, are we handing out sidearms to them as well? I just want to know where the line is drawn when it comes to who needs a gun.[/QUOTE]
Every officer atleast, if they abuse, you can take the gun privileges. Or possibly fire them and throw into jail. But Social service officers can ATLEAST be equipped with tasers.
[QUOTE=Terminutter;33362115]The UK's economy is in shit, and we all know it.
The police aren't even recruiting, let alone upgrading. (if you consider a firearm to be an upgrade)
And strange or against common sense? Common sense dictates that you don't bother preparing for something with a minescule chance of happening. The nightstick officer won't win, but why is he sticking around? He should be in his car, calling for an armed response team.[/QUOTE]
Implying Canada has a stronger economy then uk.
[QUOTE=strayebyrd;33362139]should we be equipping our social services officers with firearms as well? My dad's workmate was decapitiated like 10 years ago by a deranged and unstable father, are we handing out sidearms to them as well? I just want to know where the line is drawn when it comes to who needs a gun.[/QUOTE]
What ?! Social service ? Why do you even bring that in.It's not a police officer.
[QUOTE=doonbugie2;33362159]Cops, social service workers dont usually serve to protect.[/QUOTE]
well in the case of child [I]protection[/I] they are, and trust me that area is a fucking rough and dangerous one when it needs to be. But the fact is, the chance of someone just sent alone on a callout being murdered is incredibly low, the same goes for police. As soon as there is even a whiff of a firearm being present at a location, we only send out armed units, take into account the thing that happened earlier this year where an unarmed man was shot to death by the police, it kickstarted the whole London riots. That was because he was [I]suspected[/I] of being in ownership of a firearm
Gun Control nutters are losing.Obviously because common sense being crazy folks.
[QUOTE=Itsjustguy;33362176]What ?! Social service ? Why do you even bring that in.It's not a police officer.[/QUOTE]
because it can be equally and in some cases more dangerous than a police officer's job
[editline]20th November 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Itsjustguy;33362197]Gun Control nutters are losing.Obviously because common sense being crazy folks.[/QUOTE]
right because calling me a nutter makes your argument valid. I'm trying to present a reasonable argument, you're the one resorting to namecalling
[QUOTE=lolo;33361839]Wow really, no guns? That's really bad for officers who want to defend themselves, do they even have tasers?
Cause if they don't have a taser how can they be decent police officers.[/QUOTE]
When the bad guys don't have guns either it's not a problem since they wear stab vests anyway.
"The PC, who suffered a broken hand, is in his 20s and has been in service for eight years"
He's been in the police force since he was 12? How is that possible, you're not even allowed to leave school before 16..?
[QUOTE=strayebyrd;33362194]well in the case of child [I]protection[/I] they are, and trust me that area is a fucking rough and dangerous one when it needs to be. But the fact is, the chance of someone just sent alone on a callout being murdered is incredibly low, the same goes for police. As soon as there is even a whiff of a firearm being present at a location, we only send out armed units, take into account the thing that happened earlier this year where an unarmed man was shot to death by the police, it kickstarted the whole London riots. That was because he was [I]suspected[/I] of being in ownership of a firearm[/QUOTE]
I am not going to trust you, but i am going to ask for some statistics.
On another note, remember about home invasion, assault, murder atttempt.You brits ( The "Liberal" ones that are more "conservative" then anyone ) who think guns kills people and BOO HOO GUNS ARE BAIDDD ! BANANANANANA BANN !!! Fucking hate you.
[QUOTE=Itsjustguy;33362176]What ?! Social service ? Why do you even bring that in.It's not a police officer.[/QUOTE]
We actually do have community support officers, they're like parking cops, but still cops.
Actually, they're more like the ideas guy of the polie force :v:
[QUOTE=strayebyrd;33362194]well in the case of child [I]protection[/I] they are, and trust me that area is a fucking rough and dangerous one when it needs to be. But the fact is, the chance of someone just sent alone on a callout being murdered is incredibly low, the same goes for police. As soon as there is even a whiff of a firearm being present at a location, we only send out armed units, take into account the thing that happened earlier this year where an unarmed man was shot to death by the police, it kickstarted the whole London riots. That was because he was [I]suspected[/I] of being in ownership of a firearm[/QUOTE]
Then he was poorly trained? Cops here usually don't abuse their power in comparison to other countries.
[QUOTE=Terminutter;33362217]We actually do have community support officers, they're like parking cops, but still cops.[/QUOTE]
Sorry, we're talking about actual cops.There are tasers, pepper sprays and gas pistols for other situations.
[editline]21st November 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=doonbugie2;33362219]Then he was poorly trained? Cops here usually don't abuse their power in comparison to other countries.[/QUOTE]
Same goes here and every cop has a gun.
[QUOTE=Terminutter;33362217]We actually do have community support officers, they're like parking cops, but still cops.[/QUOTE]
Oh.. here our cops are multipurpose community servants, in fact every officer I've ever seen on the street has been extremely friendly, I can't speak for all of Canada as my area is policed by mounties.
[QUOTE=Itsjustguy;33362214]I am not going to trust you, but i am going to ask for some statistics.
On another note, remember about home invasion, assault, murder atttempt.You brits ( The "Liberal" ones that are more "conservative" then anyone ) who think guns kills people and BOO HOO GUNS ARE BAIDDD ! BANANANANANA BANN !!! Fucking hate you.[/QUOTE]
wow you're clearly a shining paragon of posting quality at this point, I'm glad you aren't arguing on my side. I don't feel that it's necessary for all police officers to carry firearms if all the population can't. I'm not going to bother trying to argue with you at this point because you're breaking the majority of the rules of debate
I'll just agree to disagree then, as you won't convince me without some proper data, and I have a feeling that the thought is mutual. I have little enough faith in my government, but I'll trust them enough to realise when guns are needed to protect the populace, and it seems to be working fine without them at the moment.
[QUOTE=Instant Mix;33354768]No , only specialists such as MOD troops can carry firearms but that's usually either a G36 or an MP7A1.
[editline]20th November 2011[/editline]
but it's completely unneccesary. The most anyone will ever have in the majority of the UK is a knife - and that can be solved with sprays which all officers carry.[/QUOTE]
There is this tv show here about British ambulance and police, and the cops always wear a sidearm in that show. They're also very violent and body-slam every person they see to the ground.
[QUOTE=doonbugie2;33362219]Then he was poorly trained? Cops here usually don't abuse their power in comparison to other countries.[/QUOTE]
When did I imply anything about abuse of power? I think you're being overly defensive, I was just trying to say that as soon as there is a whiff of a gun the armed police are brought in.
[QUOTE=Mort and Charon;33353720]Source:[url=BBC News] http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-15803860[/url]
This is why I get annoyed when people brand police as "pigs" and the like, they put their life on the line here, and showed extreme bravery. They deserve a medal. Though it was about time someone posted a story showing the other side of police, that does not get enough coverage.[/QUOTE]
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHu_cfy33bY[/media]
[QUOTE=strayebyrd;33362270]When did I imply anything about abuse of power? I think you're being overly defensive, I was just trying to say that as soon as there is a whiff of a gun the armed police are brought in.[/QUOTE]
You replied to one of my comments stating on who can you trust as to which officer holds a weapon.
Here in the U.S You must have nearly 95% clean record to join the police force, one crime on record is enough to cause someone else to be chosen for the job.
An officer who is accused of manslaughter, theft, or assault can simply be thrown to jail as well as having their whole badge thrown out the window. Just for abusing his job, also meaning he can't partake in any other government official's job.
[QUOTE=CakeMaster7;33360723]the why has this consistently been disproven in the US
not using guns encourages criminals to use guns since it means they know that the officer can't shoot back[/QUOTE]
wow lmao
Its has been studied and concluded that police weapons add fuel to the gun culture that is so rampant in the US, criminals carry guns because officers have guns - officers have guns because criminals have guns etc. Criminals in Britain (especially London) can get access to a weapon rather easily if they wanted to, but the remarkable thing is they are not often used against police. Have you ever considered why? British people in majority do not want to see their officers carrying weapons, the public do not like a military themed enforcement patrolling their streets in a recent study, you can't command respect by intimidation. So far, the public feel at one with the police and the authority they have is based on public trust in their regulations entrusted to them. That is not only a credit to the police but to the whole British legal system, it would be a shame to forsake that for intimidation.
Our police are trained to deal with suspects with weapons, and they are armed with batons against suspects welding hand weaponry, because of the lack of guns in Britain such a occurrence usually is tipped off to the police through intelligence in which they respond to armed officers.
[QUOTE=lolo;33362427]You replied to one of my comments stating on who can you trust as to which officer holds a weapon.
Here in the U.S You must have nearly 95% clean record to join the police force, one crime on record is enough to cause someone else to be chosen for the job.
An officer who is accused of manslaughter, theft, or assault can simply be thrown to jail as well as having their whole badge thrown out the window. Just for abusing his job.[/QUOTE]
I'm trying to find this quote you're talking about, the closest one I can see in response to you was
[quote]should we be equipping our social services officers with firearms as well? My dad's workmate was decapitiated like 10 years ago by a deranged and unstable father, are we handing out sidearms to them as well? I just want to know where the line is drawn when it comes to who needs a gun.[/quote]
and that wasn't about abuse of power at all. None of my posts in this thread have been about abuse of power, despite getting into a few run-ins with them, I don't have that much of a problem with the police.
[QUOTE=lolo;33362427]You replied to one of my comments stating on who can you trust as to which officer holds a weapon.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=strayebyrd;33362139]I just want to know where the line is drawn when it comes to who needs a gun.[/QUOTE]
Almost every officer, the other guy in the other page posted the video about gun control in the UK. Nearly more than a few hundred guns are seized a month. Now a few hundred can take down nearly 1000+ officers in a timespan of 20 minutes. Kevlar can't really protect you 100% it depends on the type of gun and bullets being fired. If you expect to charge at someone with .40 caliber revolver you're asking to die and the kevlar only protects your chest. Your head and legs are the most vulnerable to any bullet.
It would probably be best to let the officers get a gun on their own if they choose to get one. This eliminates the "we can't afford to buy them" argument. Also the "most people don't have guns" is a pretty shitty argument because you don't need a well armed populace in order for it to be a dangerous. This story demonstrates that. Imagine if the guy had a gun. It would have been 4 officers dead.
[QUOTE=lolo;33362655]Almost every officer, the other guy in the other page posted the video about gun control in the UK. Nearly more than a few hundred guns are seized a month. Now a few hundred can take down nearly 1000+ officers in a timespan of 20 minutes. Kevlar can't really protect you 100% it depends on the type of gun and bullets being fired. If you expect to charge at someone with .40 caliber revolver you're asking to die and the kevlar only protects your chest. Your head and legs are the most vulnerable to any bullet.[/QUOTE]
But what I'm saying is, officers are as at risk from gun crime as any person walking the street. They send in armed police for near about everything but minor crimes. A beat police officer pretty much has the same likelihood of getting shot on the beat as I do. That's my point.
[QUOTE=Contag;33354431]I'm not too sure about this.
How can you say they deserve special accolades for experiencing something that they are paid to do.[/QUOTE]
Maybe because, you know, it's not like that gives you a bit psychological stress when your own fucking life is at stake? The officers also have families, relatives that are also on their mind.
My god, it's like you are completely devoid of all human empathy and understanding.
if britain had every officer armed with a gun, a man would be dead as a result of this event. Simple.
[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;33362950]if britain had every officer armed with a gun, a man would be dead as a result of this event. Simple.[/QUOTE]
Or you know.. fire at their limbs to stop them like police are trained to do.
[QUOTE=doonbugie2;33363504]Or you know.. fire at their limbs to stop them like police are trained to do.[/QUOTE]
I'm pretty sure I've read somewhere that disabling shots like that are actually discouraged because if you hit someone in the leg you can still kill them pretty easily through the femoral artery. I can't remember where I read it, [url]http://www.policeone.com/legal/articles/2071009-Why-shooting-to-wound-doesnt-make-sense-scientifically-legally-or-tactically/[/url] that isn't what I read but it gets the same message across
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