• Four Metropolitan Police Officers stabbed in London
    121 replies, posted
[QUOTE=doonbugie2;33363504]Or you know.. fire at their limbs to stop them like police are trained to do.[/QUOTE] [url]http://www.facepunch.com/threads/1141631[/url] because that's going to happen when a crazed man is running around swinging a knife
Not having firearms creates a culture of public consent to being policed rather than having policing forced on them. This protects the police more than having a weapon they'll probably never have to use. It's a policy that won't work everywhere (i.e the US) but it can and does work effectively. I don't know British statistics but only 29 police have been killed on duty since 1886 in New Zealand and they have never been armed as standard. Moral panics caused by events like this are regularly used used to try and arm the police in spite of this.
[QUOTE=lolo;33361839]Wow really, no guns? That's really bad for officers who want to defend themselves, do they even have tasers? Cause if they don't have a taser how can they be decent police officers.[/QUOTE] idk maybe through decent training and hiring people who are physically capable of stopping a criminal without relying on fucking killing them to fulfill the basic requirements of their job
[QUOTE=RubberFruit;33355008]I've seen two police officers guarding an embassy near the Thames, they were holding MP5's. They didn't look like SRU to me.[/QUOTE] they were guarding an embassy dude
[QUOTE=flyschy;33363739]Not having firearms creates a culture of public consent to being policed rather than having policing forced on them. This protects the police more than having a weapon they'll probably never have to use. It's a policy that won't work everywhere (i.e the US) but it can and does work effectively. I don't know British statistics but only 29 police have been killed on duty since 1886 in New Zealand and they have never been armed as standard. Moral panics caused by events like this are regularly used used to try and arm the police in spite of this.[/QUOTE] I'm not quite sure about that.. when I see RCMP I don't feel as if they're enforcing a police state because they have a pistol.
Personally, I know where I could go out and buy a gun right now if I wanted to, extremely easily. That said street police are never going to be armed in the UK, not unless the country starts to literally collapse and I can't see that happening for a couple of decades at least.
[QUOTE=flyschy;33363739]Not having firearms creates a culture of public consent to being policed rather than having policing forced on them. This protects the police more than having a weapon they'll probably never have to use. It's a policy that won't work everywhere (i.e the US) but it can and does work effectively. I don't know British statistics but only 29 police have been killed on duty since 1886 in New Zealand and they have never been armed as standard. Moral panics caused by events like this are regularly used used to try and arm the police in spite of this.[/QUOTE]Maybe it does work and just as Brits can't understand our culture about use of firearms, I can't properly understand their culture about it either
I think Northern Ireland has a good idea on this. Their officers can choose if they want to carry a firearm or not, I dunno how many of them actually do but I hear its a minority. Most UK police dont want/need to be armed, but I think theres a general agreement that there needs to me more spent on armed response. Currently it can take up to an hour or more for SFOs to get out to some areas and thats just not acceptable.
[QUOTE=Tunak Mk. II;33361564]yeah a 4:1 police/criminal incapacitated ratio is really efficient if british cops arent allowed to have guns then they should at least be given swords or halberds or something[/QUOTE] Though I believe Police Officers should be provided with side-arms, I'm going to play devil's advocate and remind you of the guy that [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_shootings_of_Oakland_police_officers]killed 2 Motorcycle cops, then killed 2 veteran SWAT Officers and injured one[/url].
Police in [I]certain areas[/I] should be armed. They shouldn't have to be if it's a hum-drum place/pretty non-violent place.
[QUOTE=doonbugie2;33361979]Thats because there are a fuck ton of police in the US compared to UK? Take Canada's police force as a model for what I'm trying to say, most of the cops here are extremely friendly/work for the community.. they all have guns and [B]I don't think I've ever seen a cop get killed this year in the news[/B]. To counter your argument, we have less police brutality threads then you :v[/QUOTE] [url=http://canada.odmp.org/year.php]There was 2[/url].
[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;33364319]Police in [I]certain areas[/I] should be armed. They shouldn't have to be if it's a hum-drum place/pretty non-violent place.[/QUOTE] Then wouldn't criminals just start victimizing those areas?
[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;33364435][url=http://canada.odmp.org/year.php]There was 2[/url].[/QUOTE] Two is nothing compared to other nations, both hit and run with cars.
[QUOTE=doonbugie2;33364632]Two is nothing compared to other nations, both hit and run with cars.[/QUOTE] Don't forget factors like a countries population size, with the USs population size and diversity obviously it will have more crime than a nation like the UK
[QUOTE=CakeMaster7;33364751]Don't forget factors like a countries population size, with the USs population size and diversity obviously it will have more crime than a nation like the UK[/QUOTE] Actually I did the math, and the US still has 7 times more downed officer's than Canada.
[QUOTE=doonbugie2;33363504]Or you know.. fire at their limbs to stop them like police are trained to do.[/QUOTE] Guns shouldn't be attempted to be used as less than lethal weapons, their purpose is to kill people. Every time someone discharges a firearm it should be with the intent of killing or seriously injuring the targeted person. Less than lethal systems exist just for the purpose. [QUOTE=Hizan;33355092] Also I highly doubt the Constables were equipped with tasers as traffic and armed officers are useally the only ones to carry them. [/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Bread Dog;33359986] Im not for every officer having a pistol or anything, however. It could be a possibility for atleast one of every two officers in a patrol car to have a taser? [/QUOTE] Apparently some police forces are starting to "arm" every officer with a taser. IMO this seems to be the way to go.
[QUOTE=UberMunchkin;33367759]They're trained to shoot the torso...[/QUOTE]Because only morons aim for the legs, not only are the legs relatively hard to hit compared to the torso but you could still kill them anyway
[QUOTE=Vasili;33362490]wow lmao Its has been studied and concluded that police weapons add fuel to the gun culture that is so rampant in the US, criminals carry guns because officers have guns - officers have guns because criminals have guns etc. Criminals in Britain (especially London) can get access to a weapon rather easily if they wanted to, but the remarkable thing is they are not often used against police. Have you ever considered why? British people in majority do not want to see their officers carrying weapons, the public do not like a military themed enforcement patrolling their streets in a recent study, you can't command respect by intimidation. So far, the public feel at one with the police and the authority they have is based on public trust in their regulations entrusted to them. That is not only a credit to the police but to the whole British legal system, it would be a shame to forsake that for intimidation. Our police are trained to deal with suspects with weapons, and they are armed with batons against suspects welding hand weaponry, because of the lack of guns in Britain such a occurrence usually is tipped off to the police through intelligence in which they respond to armed officers.[/QUOTE] this, criminals know that as soon as you pull a gun it's a pretty surefire way to get an entire force of officers surrounding you, armed to the teeth, in literally minutes.
[QUOTE=Ylsid;33362208]When the bad guys don't have guns either it's not a problem since they wear stab vests anyway. "The PC, who suffered a broken hand, is in his 20s and has been in service for eight years" He's been in the police force since he was 12? How is that possible, you're not even allowed to leave school before 16..?[/QUOTE] Being in your 20's =/= being 20
[QUOTE=doonbugie2;33363504]Or you know.. fire at their limbs to stop them like police are trained to do.[/QUOTE] They are not trained to fire at limbs. Which would you train your pupils to shoot at, to give them a greater chance to live? [img]http://dl.dropbox.com/u/5483751/Photos/2011-11-21_1803.png[/img]
Some people seem to be a bit confused on the firearms that can be carried by police. Regular armed officers will never use anything from the SA80 family or even MP7s. The MP7s are used by MOD police (and also they do use the L85A2 but in limited amounts). The only people who use L85s as standard are the army's RMPs. Everything AFOs use is in semi automatic, including the MP5SF A3, G36C and AUG.
Poor cops. That is one dangerous and disrespected job..
Tasers are overused in the UK already. The US police baton with the side handle about 1/4 of the way down were going to be introduced, but were considered [I]too defensive[/I]. The asps we use are pretty cool. It's an extendabe baton, not a snake. The 'stab vests' were something invented by the media. Standard vest is actually ballistic, capable of stopping a 9mm or .357 bullet from around 10ft. [editline]21st November 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Itsjustguy;33361961]It's always a necessity to have one.You never know if someone else has a gun.Also police brutality is based on individual action not counted all together. Firearms for cops are a fair thing to give.[/QUOTE] American officers have guns to protect people from their gun laws. With control being so tight, gun crime in non-existent. If they have a knife, we use Glocks, they use shotguns, we use sun-machineguns, they use assualt rifles... It's not about 'which country has the best officers'. It's about the best way of dealing with the current situation and, thankfully, the UK wasn't founded with a law that says 'right to bear arms'. With regards to the 95% security checks, in the UK you need a 100% perfect record. There are apparently exceptions, but only surrounding cautions that may involve being in the wrong place at the wrong time, as opposed to a certainty in being involved in a minor offence.
[QUOTE=Memobot;33373931]Tasers are overused in the UK already. The US police baton with the side handle about 1/4 of the way down were going to be introduced, but were considered [I]too defensive[/I]. The asps we use are pretty cool. It's an extendabe baton, not a snake. The 'stab vests' were somethign invente4d by the media. Standard vest is actually ballistic, capable of stopping a 9mm or .357 bullet from around 10ft..[/QUOTE] Is it? Officers I know refer to it as their stab proof, and when I've tried them on it seems pretty light considering it can stop that caliber at that distance... I don't know if the West Mids is different from the Met in that respect though..
[QUOTE=mobrockers2;33371823]They are not trained to fire at limbs. Which would you train your pupils to shoot at, to give them a greater chance to live? [img]http://dl.dropbox.com/u/5483751/Photos/2011-11-21_1803.png[/img][/QUOTE] Informative.
[QUOTE=Mort and Charon;33375959]Is it? Officers I know refer to it as their stab proof, and when I've tried them on it seems pretty light considering it can stop that caliber at that distance... I don't know if the West Mids is different from the Met in that respect though..[/QUOTE]They have decent ballistic plates. There's label stitched inside. Says distance and calibre. I only found out 2 weeks ago. Basic guidelines do say though: Will stop just about any knife, bullets are no guarantee.
[QUOTE=Memobot;33376739]They have decent ballistic plates. There's label stitched inside. Says distance and calibre. I only found out 2 weeks ago. Basic guidelines do say though: Will stop just about any knife, bullets are no guarantee.[/QUOTE] Thinking about it, I think my dad said pretty much that. Love the slash proof gloves too... nabbed his spare pair :v:
If this happened anywhere in america or other places that asshole would have been shot. Cops should be armed when on duty, no way in hell I would try to grab someone with a foot-long knife.
[QUOTE=SpaceGhost;33378688]If this happened anywhere in america or other places that asshole would have been shot. Cops should be armed when on duty, no way in hell I would try to grab someone with a foot-long knife.[/QUOTE] If this had happened in the US the guy would've had a gun, not a knife.
[QUOTE=mobrockers2;33379081]If this had happened in the US the guy would've had a gun, not a knife.[/QUOTE] Not really, he ran into a butchers and got it.
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.