Jeremy Clarkson really doesn't want to make another car show, this time by comparing transgenderism
502 replies, posted
I'd just like to point out to everyone that you're arguing over an incomplete source. All of the quotes are in past tense and the full story is behind a paywall.
Before we continue, can we please get someone with a subscription to the newspaper to actually see the opinion piece?
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;49599650]How the fuck do you not see the irony in saying this!?[/QUOTE]
Well, I don't consider myself a bigot.
[QUOTE=Satansick;49599637]All you defensive transsexuals are pretty bigoted yourselves.[/QUOTE]
Excuse me?
[QUOTE=patq911;49599603]oh boy I'm doing semantics again, but that's not "normal" (not your use of the word, the guy I was replying to before). The general population does not think that that's ok. and rightfully so, forget transgender, that's not something ANYONE should experience.
And I don't think the general population would ever think something like that's ok.[/QUOTE]
Okay, so technically you are right that it is not normal for people to murder/assault/rape transgender people, but the point Tsanummy was really making was that it is (currently, awfully) normal for transgender people to suffer abuse because they are transgender.
[QUOTE=WhatANiceName;49599653]Man, his actions have always annoyed me but I put up with it because he was pretty entertaining in Top Gear, but this just hurts me on a personal level, it's a shame that so many people will blindly follow him.
I see myself everyday, and know some other trans people, but it is still pretty uncommon, I think you hear more from america because it just has a greater population, and don't foget that Thailand also has a population of around 70 million, that plus it being more accepted might make the number of trans people be bigger than it actually is.[/QUOTE]
Would it comfort you to now that later in the article he says:
[QUOTE]
"But then I thought of something. Let's just say that for a moment that one in 1,000 are transgender. Or one in 100,000. Or even that it's actually just one. Let's say that there is one person out there who is a woman living in a man's body, or the other way around. I started to imagine what life might be like for the poor soul. It would be dreadful. Absolutely awful. And all they seem to want to make their life better is a third gender option box on official documents. That's not really the end of the world for everyone else, is it?"[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Satansick;49599679]Well, I don't consider myself a bigot.[/QUOTE]
I don't care if you consider yourself a bigot or not, that is most definitely not important to being a bigot in real life.
You're saying that people who are defending themselves and their identities from some pretty horrible statements and posters are bigots.
You, defending yourself here and now, by your own definition, would be a bigot, so whether you consider yourself one or not is totally irrelevant. When you're saying people who are defending themselves are bigots, you've essentially made a horrible argument.
[QUOTE=NeonpieDFTBA;49599685]Okay, so technically you are right that it is not normal for people to murder/assault/rape transgender people, but the point Tsanummy was really making was that it is (currently, awfully) normal for transgender people to suffer abuse because they are transgender.[/QUOTE]
So do some gay people, and some women, and some black people. and some christians, and some muslims, and some atheists.
[QUOTE=WhatANiceName;49599653]Man, his actions have always annoyed me but I put up with it because he was pretty entertaining in Top Gear, but this just hurts me on a personal level, it's a shame that so many people will blindly follow him.
I see myself everyday, and know some other trans people, but it is still pretty uncommon, I think you hear more from america because it just has a greater population, and don't foget that Thailand also has a population of around 70 million, that plus it being more accepted might make the number of trans people be bigger than it actually is.[/QUOTE]
I am always amazed and proud that Scotland of all places is the best country in Europe for LGBTI Equality, scoring some 90%+ on equality measures.
It doesn't fit what most people outside of the country think of Scotland, but yeah, I know (and am friends with) quite a few openly trans* people here, and know of many more beyond that and that's just in one relatively small city in the country. There are a lot more than people might think, I reckon. Especially the people who think it is all made up.
[QUOTE=patq911;49599716]So do some gay people, and some women, and some black people. and some christians, and some muslims, and some atheists.[/QUOTE]
Do not compare those groups to what transgender as a whole go through
seriously how little do you know about the actual struggles trans people go through or how much hate there has been directed at them in the last 4 years?
[QUOTE=Boaraes;49599395]Did you just ignore the mountain of scientific inquiries about transexualism in this thread? Like, there were a lot of studies linked, perhaps you should look to here:
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say you didn't read the thread before posting. Perhaps you should try reading these scientific documents rather than sticking to your half-assed "well you don't got a baby oven!" argument. I understand it's easier to not put forth the effort and instead let your opinions be validated by big personalities like Clarkson, but if you truly think that you have science backing you up, you're dead wrong.[/QUOTE]
Couldn't care less about what some quack says on the subject. Whether it helps them or not is irrelevant, my issue is the agenda that's being pushed to force society to conform to these delusions. Show me some articles about continued research in this area rather than advocating sex change as the be-all and end-all solution, I'm willing to bet that any such proposals would be shot down/defunded/whatever goes on in the medical research field.
Also, I remember APA being pressured by gay activists into dropping homosexuality as a mental illness in the 70s. When shit like that goes on, alternative (secular) treatment centers for homosexuals getting shut down and all this Marxist shit in academia, it's hard to take these once well respected institutions as gospel nowadays.
[QUOTE=patq911;49599716]So do some gay people, and some women, and some black people. and some christians, and some muslims, and some atheists.[/QUOTE]
Quit it with the whataboutism, how about you actually bring up a fucking point
[editline]24th January 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=Nasspray;49599731]-[/QUOTE]
Before [I]ANYBODY[/I] responds to this guy, look at the name. It's Nasal Spray, a known troll/gimmick account that would harass trans members of the site. Report, don't reply.
[QUOTE=patq911;49599716]So do some gay people, and some women, and some black people. and some christians, and some muslims, and some atheists.[/QUOTE]
Seen as you are so into semantics, why don't we discuss the difference between 'some' and and 'most' (as implied by it being the norm).
[QUOTE=Satansick;49599637]All you defensive transsexuals are pretty bigoted yourselves.[/QUOTE]
Pardon me?
[QUOTE=Nasspray;49599731]Couldn't care less about what some quack says on the subject. Whether it helps them or not is irrelevant, my issue is the agenda that's being pushed to force society to conform to these delusions. Show me some articles about continued research in this area rather than advocating sex change as the be-all and end-all solution, I'm willing to bet that any such proposals would be shot down/defunded/whatever goes on in the medical research field.
Also, I remember APA being pressured by gay activists into dropping homosexuality as a mental illness in the 70s. When shit like that goes on, alternative (secular) treatment centers for homosexuals getting shut down and all this Marxist shit in academia, it's hard to take these once well respected institutions as gospel nowadays.[/QUOTE]
you ignored every article to continue to post your own personal opinion like you have more knowledge than a person who studies these things
you do not
[QUOTE=Satansick;49599637]All you defensive transsexuals are pretty bigoted yourselves.[/QUOTE]
not trans but i'm curious to know why you think this
i mean im told i have a boipussi but i would just like some information
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;49599780]you ignored every article to continue to post your own personal opinion like you have more knowledge than a person who studies these things
you do not[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;49599732]
Before [I]ANYBODY[/I] responds to this guy, look at the name. It's Nasal Spray, a known troll/gimmick account that would harass trans members of the site. Report, don't reply.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Satansick;49599637]All you defensive transsexuals are pretty bigoted yourselves.[/QUOTE]
yes because they're always running around persecuting us regular people, remember the riots when gays and transexuals went around beating up innocent policemen?
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;49599724]Do not compare those groups to what transgender as a whole go through
seriously how little do you know about the actual struggles trans people go through or how much hate there has been directed at them in the last 4 years?[/QUOTE]
I guess not, I assumed it was about the same as gays, and less than black people in the 60s.
Is it not?
[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;49599819][/QUOTE]
did we not have a discussion in this very thread where we argued that people shouldn't be shut down, but rather intelligently debated to best sway an audience of undecided?
[editline]24th January 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=patq911;49599825]I guess not, I assumed it was about the same as gays, and less than black people in the 60s.
Is it not?[/QUOTE]
the LGB part of LGBT is treated pretty well across most of the western world. The T part of it is not.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;49599780]you ignored every article to continue to post your own personal opinion like you have more knowledge than a person who studies these things
you do not[/QUOTE]
There's nothing and no one on this Earth that will convince me that these two are women:
[IMG]http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.2463794.1449946516!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/article_307/trans13n-2-web.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://www.reaxxion.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Pride_31.jpeg[/IMG]
Call them shes/hers all you want, deep down, on some level you know they're not true women.
[highlight](User was permabanned for this post ("alt of permabanned user" - OvB))[/highlight]
[QUOTE=patq911;49599825]I guess not, I assumed it was about the same as gays, and less than black people in the 60s.
Is it not?[/QUOTE]
I was googling to find sources and it seems it's hard to pinpoint exact numbers because of the fact that lots of places don't record hate cres against transgender people and its hard to calculate the number of trans people but it seems that 50%+ is the common rate for violent and or sexual crimes, and I'd be amazed if the actual rate of abuse (including verbal/harassment) does not cover nearly every trans individual.
Not even the most creative troll/insult I've seen this ~hour~
[QUOTE=NeonpieDFTBA;49599859]I was googling to find sources and it seems it's hard to pinpoint exact numbers because of the fact that lots of places don't record hate cres against transgender people and its hard to calculate the number of trans people but it seems that 50%+ is the common rate for violent and or sexual crimes, and I'd be amazed if the actual rate of abuse (including verbal/harassment) does not cover nearly every trans individual.[/QUOTE]
50% in their life will experience some sort of violent or sexual harassment? I wouldn't be surprised to hear not much lower for the entire population.
Either that or that number is too high to be accurate.
EDITED FOR MISREADING YOUR POST.
edit again, I don't really have a point. I can accept it's higher than average for most people, but some notion that it's normal, accepted, or encouraged is frankly ridiculous.
Should've just shut'd the fuck up. Sorry peeps.
[QUOTE=patq911;49599907]50% in their life will experience some sort of violent or sexual harassment? I wouldn't be surprised to hear not much lower for the entire population.
EDITED FOR MISREADING YOUR POST.[/QUOTE]
From what I saw, more than 50% (based on reported levels) will experience violent or sexual crime in their life [i]because they are transgender[/i], that is to say in addition to other causes and sources of violent crime.
In my school there are 0 openly transgender students and that isn't because there aren't any.
[QUOTE=patq911;49599907]
edit again, I don't really have a point. I can accept it's higher than average for most people, but some notion that it's normal, accepted, or encouraged is frankly ridiculous.[/QUOTE]
the things that frighten, confuse, or scare people are usually the things those people direct their anger at. in this case, people are confusing, scaring or frightening these people in such a manner that they act more aggressively towards them.
This is the source of phobias, xenophobia, homophobia, transphobia, whatever, the people who are made to feel anxious by the existence of something they don't understand or more likely to target that thing. So in this case, trans people are more likely to be targeted.
[QUOTE=Satansick;49599679]Well, I don't consider myself a bigot.[/QUOTE]
Didn't you read the article? Stop identifying as something you're not :smug:
People are just far too oversensitive, and he just nosedived right into one of the biggest oversensitive demographics there is.
[QUOTE=Source;49600296]People are just far too oversensitive, and he just nosedived right into one of the biggest oversensitive demographics there is.[/QUOTE]
How precisely is it oversensitive to call someone out for being both factually wrong and demonstrably bigoted?
I'll still watch his show.
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