Jeremy Clarkson really doesn't want to make another car show, this time by comparing transgenderism
502 replies, posted
Good thread about how journalism context matters and how paywalls on news sites are bad
[QUOTE=Laferio;49601289]This is probably one of the most horrendous threads in a while.
It's the most LITERAL clickbait shit that's hidden behind a paywall, and in the end, Clarkson states
I don't know what's worse.
The fact that people ate this shit up without having read the entire article (which I can't really blame them because it's hidden behind some shitty paywall), and/or the only thing people even bothered to read was either the title of this thread or the article snippet.
Or the fact that people were willing to treat him like the next coming of Satan, knowingly that the rest of the article is hidden behind a paywall, and that we weren't receiving the entirely of such. With that last statement- does he REALLY seem that far off to warrant people saying "hope he never gets another job again!!"
No. It doesn't. This is fucking ridiculous. Does his justify his narrowed point of view? No. But you know what? He's not that far off of being educated, and informed.[/QUOTE]
nobody could get around the paywall, i take back my statements about clarkson
[QUOTE=SeamanStains;49598104]A 55 year old conservative leaning man has an opinion which is old fashioned and disagreeable to the current generation of left leaning people.
Wow, stop the fucking presses.
Seriously trans/lgbt people should be happy progress is being made without having to attack every old dinosaur with an outdated, wrong think opinion. Attacking people who have an older, dwindling set of beliefs just makes you an asshole too, no matter how righteous you think your cause is.[/QUOTE]
I disagree, this doesn't make other people assholes. I never let my grandma be a racist piece of shit like the rest of my family allowed her too. "Oh it's just how grandma is"
I wonder if there'll be a time where these old douchebags with backwards, uneducated opinions start being held accountable for their bullshit
How does anyone take anything clarkson says seriously?
[QUOTE=Kyle902;49600308]How precisely is it oversensitive to call someone out for being both factually wrong and demonstrably bigoted?[/QUOTE]
He's not wrong though.
[QUOTE=Source;49602673]He's not wrong though.[/QUOTE]
[quote]But then I thought of something. Let’s just say for a moment that one in 1,000 are transgender. Or one in 100,000. Or even that it’s actually just one. Let’s say that there is one person out there who is a woman living in a man’s body, or the other way around.
I started to imagine what life might be like for the poor soul. It would be dreadful. Absolutely awful. And all they seem to want to make their life better is a third gender option box on official documents. That’s not really the end of the world for everyone else, is it?[/quote]
Well, I suppose not.
[QUOTE=UnidentifiedFlyingTard;49597926]Well if he is allowed to think this, I'm allowed to think he is a bigoted piece of shit.[/QUOTE]
And that, as I might add, is totally ok.
[QUOTE=mecaguy03;49601948]How does anyone take anything clarkson says seriously?[/QUOTE]
There's a lot of teenage/adolescent boys look up to him as an idol, so they soak up pretty much anything he says.
[QUOTE=Blind Weasel;49602907]There's a lot of teenage/adolescent boys look up to him as an idol, so they soak up pretty much anything he says.[/QUOTE]
And you can read this thread and be amazed at how many people unironically have these opinions, regardless of if they were actually expressed by Clarkson
[QUOTE=Radley;49602905]And that, as I might add, is totally ok.
Why do we have to throw a fit when [I]one[/I] individual states his personal opinion?
I personally, for example, could say that some people in this thread are taking it a bit to seriously.
And let's be real here, trying to educate some random people in SH about a subject that they probably don't actually care that much for is just a waste of time.[/QUOTE]
This one particular person with an opinion has a large audience who accepts or agrees with his opinion and often tends to act upon that opinion. aka going out and beating up queers and fags. aka causing actual harm. and that's the effect an opinion can, and usually does, have.
And trust me, JC is not the only [I]one[/I] person who holds that particular opinion.
And that's why we call people out on having that opinion, so we can eradicate it, because people are getting hurt and killed because of it.
It's not 'just an opinion brah' if it causes actual harm.
Now we just need the OP edited with the actual article.
How many trans are there on Facepunch anyway, I thought that this was a 50/40 straight/gay forum with just only 10% being trans.
[QUOTE=Jintei;49603007]How many trans are there on Facepunch anyway, I thought that this was a 50/40 straight/gay forum with just only 10% being trans.[/QUOTE]
40% gay? damn
According to the latest census 72% of people were straight.
[QUOTE=Satansick;49599679]Well, I don't consider myself a bigot.[/QUOTE]
Ironically, alcoholics, drug junkies and stupid idiots would never admit to themselves being alcoholics, drug junkies, and stupid idiots.
Seems like the OP could do with some editing.
i dont know why people think this is the end of the world because clarkson said something offensive
like seriously, just ignore the guy. he literally makes funny car shows, nothing more, nothing less. do you think anyone will listen to a guy who makes car shows for political opinions?
[editline]25th January 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=Araknid;49601061]People are reacting to this without even reading his own fucking article.
He does say some insensitive stuff but he's not going 'TRANS SHOULD BE IGNORED AND NOT CONSIDERED PEOPLE'
From what I udnerstand, his main problems are excessive support at a young age (not necessarily a bad thing but I understand how someone would be uncomfortable with it) and people who could potentially take advantage of support by changing gender to their advantage (if that makes sense)
If you actually read the article you can see at the end that his opinion has changed, aswell as the fact that he speaks in past tense for much of it, "As far as I was concerned"
He has (and still does) say some retarded shit but he isn't saying that they should all be shot or something like that. It's typical for news articles to pick out all the controversial, insensitive stupid shit in the article and leave out everything else.[/QUOTE]
also, this.
you people are entirely assuming this is his opinion now and starting a huge flame war because of this
[QUOTE=fruxodaily;49597920]ho boy where do i fucking start?[/QUOTE]
Dude, he's 55. That's like faulting people who owned slaves back when they were pretty much the norm. Yeah, for everyone in the newer generations what he said seems really awful, but that's just how his generation views the world [i]for the most part[/i].
So for people saying "He's pretty much right", in his generations eyes, he is. You can't tell someone they're wrong about this view either, because all the moral codes we hold today won't be the same in 2-3 generations and people will look back at us and call us bigots just the same.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;49599724][B]Do not compare those groups to what transgender as a whole go through[/B]
seriously how little do you know about the actual struggles trans people go through or how much hate there has been directed at them in the last 4 years?[/QUOTE]
You've reached the critical point of bias that poisons your efforts. Do not compare one struggle to another else you enter the minefield of [I]"My people are more special than X, we've suffered more"[/I].
If that's how you're going to categorize the worth of the struggle then the LGBT can sit down and shut their mouth. The Jews, as a people, have suffered more at any point in history that they have existed than anyone else. To this day they suffer more intolerance than any other group by comparison, which is why you [I]don't[/I] compare suffering if you're not willing to sit down and wait your turn for appeasement. LGBT want what they want [I]now[/I] and so lose their right to compare.
You make your efforts look childish when you do this and provoke disbelievers into waving you off more than they already are -- this especially if they are also from a group of people that is struggling, their own bias can and will lead them to believe you are slighting them. Even if other people have false justification or personal bias, it does you no justice to alienate people by presenting yourself as hurting more than another. Let your struggles stand on their own merits.
[editline]25th January 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=TreasoN.avi;49603897]Dude, he's 55. That's like faulting people who owned slaves back when they were pretty much the norm. Yeah, for everyone in the newer generations what he said seems really awful, but that's just how his generation views the world [i]for the most part[/i].
So for people saying "He's pretty much right", in his generations eyes, he is.[/QUOTE]
I think my parents are rather conservative, they think my grandparents are much more so, and my grandparents think my great grandparents are ridiculous.
Everyone that thinks they're part of an enlightened generation of tolerance are egotistical and lack perspective. It will be amusing when their grandchildren think they are old fashioned conservatives of the time.
Still so many idiots who haven't bothered to read the article.
[QUOTE=Jeremy Clarkson] (paraphased) I used to think being transgender was a load of bollocks, then I sat down and thought about what it would really be like to be a man trapped living in the body of a woman and changed my mind.[/QUOTE]
Considering Clarkson's audience, him coming out as tolerant/supportive of trans people could have been a big opportunity. But no, a bunch of people fell for click-bait journalism taking the [I]used to think[/I] stuff out of context and presenting it as an attack. If you are one of these people, congratulations, you've just proved yourself on the same level of intelligence as the average tabloid reader.
[QUOTE=Axznma;49603914]You've reached the critical point of bias that poisons your efforts. Do not compare one struggle to another else you enter the minefield of [I]"My people are more special than X, we've suffered more"[/I].
If that's how you're going to categorize the worth of the struggle then the LGBT can sit down and shut their mouth. The Jews, as a people, have suffered more at any point in history that they have existed than anyone else. To this day they suffer more intolerance than any other group by comparison, which is why you [I]don't[/I] compare suffering if you're not willing to sit down and wait your turn for appeasement. LGBT want what they want [I]now[/I] and so lose their right to compare.
You make your efforts look childish when you do this and provoke disbelievers into waving you off more than they already are -- this especially if they are also from a group of people that is struggling, their own bias can and will lead them to believe you are slighting them. Even if other people have false justification or personal bias, it does you no justice to alienate people by presenting yourself as hurting more than another. Let your struggles stand on their own merits.
[editline]25th January 2016[/editline]
I think my parents are rather conservative, they think my grandparents are much more so, and my grandparents think my great grandparents are ridiculous.
Everyone that thinks they're part of an enlightened generation of tolerance are egotistical and lack perspective. It will be amusing when their grandchildren think they are old fashioned conservatives of the time.[/QUOTE]
if it's childish to say that in todays world, they don't face similar levels of opposition, then you're saying it's childish to talk about the reality of the situation?
[QUOTE=AlexConnor;49604115]Still so many idiots who haven't bothered to read the article.
Considering Clarkson's audience, him coming out as tolerant/supportive of trans people could have been a big opportunity. But no, a bunch of people fell for click-bait journalism taking the [I]used to think[/I] stuff out of context and presenting it as an attack. If you are one of these people, congratulations, you've just proved yourself on the same level of intelligence as the average tabloid reader.[/QUOTE]
The article is behind a fucking paywall lol. Do you honestly blame us for not reading the full article until someone posted it? (which they should probably snip)
[QUOTE=Kyle902;49604318]The article is behind a fucking paywall lol. Do you honestly blame us for not reading the full article until someone posted it? (which they should probably snip)[/QUOTE]
You made a terrible assumption based upon talking heads and fucking god damn soundbytes.
Just admit you were fucking wrong. Your first move should've been 'I trust that those lines are from his story but until I've read the whole thing I cannot formulate an entire opinion'.
[QUOTE=Kyle902;49604318]The article is behind a fucking paywall lol. Do you honestly blame us for not reading the full article until someone posted it? (which they should probably snip)[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Grenadiac;49598139]The paywall article seems to lead into Clarkson expressing a change of opinion from what it was "a few years ago". I'm wondering if this is being spun to make noise based on that??? Can anyone see the whole article?[/QUOTE]
This was on page 3... I'm sure someone said the same before me. You and many others weren't even willing to entertain the notion, which is how we have 11 pages erroneously accusing Clarkson of conspiring against transpeople when instead he's written an article about what changed his mind. And moreover I'm very proud of Clarkson for this because he is famously hardheaded.
[QUOTE=Swilly;49604479]You made a terrible assumption based upon talking heads and fucking god damn soundbytes.
Just admit you were fucking wrong. Your first move should've been 'I trust that those lines are from his story but until I've read the whole thing I cannot formulate an entire opinion'.[/QUOTE]
The number of people ready to justify their assumptions on a whim was/is disturbing to me a bit.
[QUOTE=Grenadiac;49604517]This was on page 3... I'm sure someone said the same before me. You and many others weren't even willing to entertain the notion, which is how we have 11 pages erroneously accusing Clarkson of conspiring against transpeople when instead he's written an article about what changed his mind.[/QUOTE]
Most of the thread I wasn't even addressing the article though. i made like one comment towards it which I wholeheartedly admit was completely wrong.
[editline]25th January 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=Swilly;49604479]You made a terrible assumption based upon talking heads and fucking god damn soundbytes.
Just admit you were fucking wrong. Your first move should've been 'I trust that those lines are from his story but until I've read the whole thing I cannot formulate an entire opinion'.[/QUOTE]
Lol I made literally one fucking comment on the article and that wasn't even my first post. You guys sure love to jump down peoples throats without actually looking at what they posted.
[QUOTE=Axznma;49603914]
If that's how you're going to categorize the worth of the struggle then the LGBT can sit down and shut their mouth. The Jews, as a people, have suffered more at any point in history that they have existed than anyone else. To this day they suffer more intolerance than any other group by comparison, which is why you [I]don't[/I] compare suffering if you're not willing to sit down and wait your turn for appeasement. LGBT want what they want [I]now[/I] and so lose their right to compare.[/QUOTE]
You're completely missing the point of what Abyss was saying. I pointed out that Transgender people suffer a massive rate of hate crimes, and that it was a problem that the article [i]appeared[/i] to be normalising anti-trans attitudes. This was then compared to racist/sexist/homophobic hate crimes which are a massive problem, but still occurring far less often than transphobic attacks and irrelevant to the discussion at hand.
[QUOTE=Swilly;49604479]You made a terrible assumption based upon talking heads and fucking god damn soundbytes.
Just admit you were fucking wrong. Your first move should've been 'I trust that those lines are from his story but until I've read the whole thing I cannot formulate an entire opinion'.[/QUOTE]
i was wrong in the assumption that clarkson is an ass because he's anti-trans
but i'm still not wrong in the assumption that he's ass because he's said some really offensive shit (off-air) and his completely justifiable dismissal
[QUOTE=Jund;49605015]i was wrong in the assumption that clarkson is an ass because he's anti-trans
but i'm still not wrong in the assumption that he's ass because he's said some really offensive shit (off-air) and his completely justifiable dismissal[/QUOTE]
He's said some really offensive shit off-air... like what exactly? I think you'll find that everyone occasionally says something that is offensive to someone out there. Like the people who take his tongue-in-cheek comments about truckers and cyclists to heart, people who I can do nothing but laugh at.
[QUOTE=L33t Pinez;49603872]do you think anyone will listen to a guy who makes car shows for political opinions?[/QUOTE]
If you read the very first page you would have answered your own question.
[QUOTE]you people are entirely assuming this is his opinion now and starting a huge flame war because of this[/QUOTE]
If you bothered reading the thread rather than trying to jump in with this bullshit comment you'd realize that very few people were actually discussing Clarkson and instead were pointing out how/why what people said earlier in the thread were wrong. Gotta do your best to feel superior to the others in the thread though, no?
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.