[QUOTE=Uberpro;38998227]There have been and there always will be devices to kill people, but I dont see much point in glorifying their creators.[/QUOTE]
The AK-47 has literally shaped the face of the modern world for many countries and regions. Without it, many revolutions wouldn't have succeeded or been fought at all, many countries wouldn't exist as they are today, and a lot of people would/wouldn't be alive today. Theres very few things that have had that large of an effect on the modern world. I'd glorify Mr. Kalashnikov for that.
Its still amazing that a weapon that is over 60 years old is still effective and viable today.
I mean damn, this guy knew what he was doing.
[QUOTE=Magmacow358;39001617]Its still amazing that a weapon that is over 60 years old is still effective and viable today.
I mean damn, this guy knew what he was doing.[/QUOTE]
Aint got shit on the M2
[t]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/07/Browning_M2HB_Normandy.jpg/761px-Browning_M2HB_Normandy.jpg[/t]
[t]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/36/Browning_M2HB_USMC.jpg/800px-Browning_M2HB_USMC.jpg[/t]
80 years and still booming
[QUOTE=Timebomb575;39001950]Aint got shit on the M2
[t]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/07/Browning_M2HB_Normandy.jpg/761px-Browning_M2HB_Normandy.jpg[/t]
[t]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/36/Browning_M2HB_USMC.jpg/800px-Browning_M2HB_USMC.jpg[/t]
80 years and still booming[/QUOTE]
ain't got shit on the M1911
[IMG]http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-jhy-1LuJvmQ/TXRR_gAHzVI/AAAAAAAAJ24/sFUD27-AAfI/s400/1911_WWI_02.jpg[/IMG]
[thumb]http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/131/dac26ue.jpg[/thumb]
102 years and still booming
[QUOTE=Lord of Ears;39001981]ain't got shit on the M1911
[IMG]http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-jhy-1LuJvmQ/TXRR_gAHzVI/AAAAAAAAJ24/sFUD27-AAfI/s400/1911_WWI_02.jpg[/IMG]
[thumb]http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/131/dac26ue.jpg[/thumb]
102 years and still booming[/QUOTE]
not in service anymore technically though
the new MEUSOC one is supposed to be issued in small numbers but hasnt been adopted because of durability problems.
plus the current 1911 is pretty different from the one used in WW2, whereas the M2HB used in the 40s is literally identical to the one in service now
a better example would be the Hi power which is still in service in basically its original form (and has been for almost as long as the M2)
ok then
[QUOTE=Vodkavia;38997677]This argument is a joke. A tool's purpose is meaningless, what matters is the intent of the user. Otherwise you're putting someone who defends their country or shoots targets on the same level as mass murderer.[/QUOTE]
An AK47 isn't designed for shooting targets, it's designed for killing people. Whatever justification you lay on top of that is a different can of worms.
[QUOTE=Hiccuper;38996849]It's intended purpose can give you a hint of an ethical value. You couldn't defend this with ideas of improving marksmanship or hunting, the gun was designed with the purpose of killing other people. You could justify that killing with self defence or whatever else tickles your fancy, but fundamentally, it is designed to kill people.[/QUOTE]
When did deadly force stop being an acceptable form of self-defence?
[QUOTE=brawl;38991557]Still, designing a device solely to kill is not in the least bit commendable in my book.[/QUOTE]
Guess you hate nuclear power too since it was originally used in a weapon. Dumbass.
[editline]28th December 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=hypno-toad;38999376]Well none, really. You can't point to the Mesolithic man who invented the bow and arrow and attribute him responsible for every projectile death that came afterwards
Kalashnikov just made a popular gun design. That's it. If it wasn't the AK47 killing people then it just would have been the SKS or something.[/QUOTE]
Also what this guy said.
[QUOTE=Timebomb575;39001950]Aint got shit on the M2
[t]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/07/Browning_M2HB_Normandy.jpg/761px-Browning_M2HB_Normandy.jpg[/t]
[t]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/36/Browning_M2HB_USMC.jpg/800px-Browning_M2HB_USMC.jpg[/t]
80 years and still booming[/QUOTE]
You know
You can't exactly compare a heavy machinegun that is only common in vehicles with assault rifle that is main weapon of infantry.
[editline]28th December 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Eudoxia;39006671]When did deadly force stop being an acceptable form of self-defence?[/QUOTE]
Because hurr muh morality
[QUOTE=hypno-toad;38999376]Well none, really. You can't point to the Mesolithic man who invented the bow and arrow and attribute him responsible for every projectile death that came afterwards
Kalashnikov just made a popular gun design. That's it. If it wasn't the AK47 killing people then it just would have been the SKS or something.[/QUOTE]
And people don't give the SKS enough credit. You have to acknowledge that until the late 60's, the SKS was what was given to every body who wanted to revolt.
[QUOTE=DaysBefore;38996280]Two best ways to piss off Gunpunchers;
-Be Sobotnik
-Insult the Kalashnikov series.[/QUOTE]
or you could be Ven Kaeo, he pops up every now and again
[QUOTE=Timebomb575;39002044]not in service anymore technically though
the new MEUSOC one is supposed to be issued in small numbers but hasnt been adopted because of durability problems.
plus the current 1911 is pretty different from the one used in WW2, whereas the M2HB used in the 40s is literally identical to the one in service now
a better example would be the Hi power which is still in service in basically its original form (and has been for almost as long as the M2)[/QUOTE]
MEUSOC is just a title. The 1911 never exited service with the marines and several different types of 1911 held the title of MEUSOC at different times. Special operations also never stopped using it. While the 1911's are visually different from those used in WWII, little has ultimately changed. They are functionally identical, and the military ones still employ the same steel frames.
[QUOTE=Lord of Ears;39001981]ain't got shit on the M1911
[IMG]http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-jhy-1LuJvmQ/TXRR_gAHzVI/AAAAAAAAJ24/sFUD27-AAfI/s400/1911_WWI_02.jpg[/IMG]
[thumb]http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/131/dac26ue.jpg[/thumb]
102 years and still booming[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Timebomb575;39001950]Aint got shit on the M2
[t]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/07/Browning_M2HB_Normandy.jpg/761px-Browning_M2HB_Normandy.jpg[/t]
[t]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/36/Browning_M2HB_USMC.jpg/800px-Browning_M2HB_USMC.jpg[/t]
80 years and still booming[/QUOTE]
Made me think about the Massai tribes that fought with [B]bow and arrow[/B]. Quite a lot of people actually got killed.
[IMG]http://cellar.org/2008/massai.jpg[/IMG]
10000 years and booming.
[QUOTE=asteroidrules;38987701]He stills works? (or well, did until March) Wow.[/QUOTE]
He's built like his guns I guess
[QUOTE=Timebomb575;38992379][editline]27th December 2012[/editline]
I always imagine them getting in a slap fight after the picture was taken :v:
"Look at this barely fit together commie piece of crap"
"Look at this unreliable hunk of capitalist garbage"
"Yeah? At least I can hit the broad side of a barn past 100 meters"
"I dont see any medals pinned on your chest [I]Stoner[/I]"
"You son of a-"[/QUOTE]Followed by arguably one of the most intense gunfights ever.
Clearly god requires a rifle.
[QUOTE=Hiccuper;39003359]An AK47 isn't designed for shooting targets, it's designed for killing people. Whatever justification you lay on top of that is a different can of worms.[/QUOTE]
A knife wasn't originally designed for cutting up your food, and a bow and arrow wasn't orginally designed for target practice, but theres variants that are used for that. Just like the AK can be fitted with stocks and sights for target shooting.
[QUOTE=Trunk Monkay;39017473]A knife wasn't originally designed for cutting up your food, and a bow and arrow wasn't orginally designed for target practice, but theres variants that are used for that. Just like the AK can be fitted with stocks and sights for target shooting.[/QUOTE]
How do you know that? Those were developed far too long ago to make a statement like that, the first knives could have been crude implements for cutting and skinning animals, and bows and arrows could have been developed for hunting rather than combat, also, bows and knives are very simple tools, civilizations with no contact with each other developed their own, so obviously there are tons of variants. The AK is a weapon engineered for war. Sure you can slap some modifications on it for target practice, never said you couldn't, and I'm sure you could shoot targets with it without modifications, but you'd probably be more effective with a different firearm.
Your avatar is so fitting.
It's gotta be awkward though, to think that your invention has killed millions, just like Einstein's science thing accidentally resulted in invention of atom bombs, but nevertheless has some way brought some peace.
[QUOTE=Nitro836;39027884]It's gotta be awkward though, to think that your invention has killed millions, just like Einstein's science thing accidentally resulted in invention of atom bombs, but nevertheless has some way brought some peace.[/QUOTE]
Einstein is given way too much credit for the atomic bomb. It's like blaming Fritz Haber for the Oklahoma city bombing.
[QUOTE=Hiccuper;39027613]How do you know that? Those were developed far too long ago to make a statement like that, the first knives could have been crude implements for cutting and skinning animals, and bows and arrows could have been developed for hunting rather than combat, also, bows and knives are very simple tools, civilizations with no contact with each other developed their own, so obviously there are tons of variants. The AK is a weapon engineered for war. Sure you can slap some modifications on it for target practice, never said you couldn't, and I'm sure you could shoot targets with it without modifications, but you'd probably be more effective with a different firearm.[/QUOTE]
Blaming Kalashnikov for the deaths of people killed with the weapon he designed is like blaming the weapon itself.
[QUOTE=Eudoxia;39028081]Einstein is given way too much credit for the atomic bomb. It's like blaming Fritz Haber for the Oklahoma city bombing.[/QUOTE]
What I meant is he was heavily involved in its creation.
[QUOTE=Eudoxia;38996403]A weapon is just a tool. It has no inherent ethical value.[/QUOTE]
That's an interesting way to look at things, especially in the wider context of our species as one that is partly characterized by tool use. We have - and always have had - tools for everything, from shovels for digging, to pens for writing, to weapons for killing.
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;38987805]I think this guy affected the future of the world as much so than any politician of his time did.[/QUOTE]
every country in the past 60 years that's been in any sort of turmoil would have sucked if it weren't for Kalashnikov.
that or they'd have been using FN FALs instead
[QUOTE=Hiccuper;39027613]How do you know that? Those were developed far too long ago to make a statement like that, the first knives could have been crude implements for cutting and skinning animals, and bows and arrows could have been developed for hunting rather than combat, also, bows and knives are very simple tools, civilizations with no contact with each other developed their own, so obviously there are tons of variants. The AK is a weapon engineered for war. Sure you can slap some modifications on it for target practice, never said you couldn't, and I'm sure you could shoot targets with it without modifications, but you'd probably be more effective with a different firearm.[/QUOTE]
I hate to have to say this but nobody cares what a gun was designed to do. The point is how you use it not what it was used for and what its initial purpose was. It should be noted that today, Izhmash's main market is the civilian market.
[QUOTE=Nitro836;39027884]It's gotta be awkward though, to think that your invention has killed millions, just like Einstein's science thing accidentally resulted in invention of atom bombs, but nevertheless has some way brought some peace.[/QUOTE]
The firearm isn't the one killing, it's the person thats pulling the trigger. A weapon isn't inherently evil, blaming weapons or their creators for killing people is like blaming forks for making people fat.
[QUOTE=JoeSkylynx;38987836]Fixed that, but yeah... I hope Kalashnikov gets to see the AK-12 become adopted by the Russian Military as well as hunter/gun-owners around the world.[/QUOTE]
I was unaware of this new Avtomat Kalashnikova; normally I wouldn't condone the proliferation of firearms, but here's hoping that if Mr K bites it, the AK-12 makes for a worthy "swansong".
[QUOTE=ironman17;39032098]I was unaware of this new Avtomat Kalashnikova; normally I wouldn't condone the proliferation of firearms, but here's hoping that if Mr K bites it, the AK-12 makes for a worthy "swansong".[/QUOTE]
it fixes everything that was wrong with previous AK designs except for the sights
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