Police shoot crazy guy waving a knife in the middle of times square, all of it was caught on film
282 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Lonestriper;37191099]Police wear stab vests, they maintain a perimeter in which bystanders are not allowed to enter and they have guns.
Isn't it worth a go to use a taser when you have ample backup to protect you?[/QUOTE]
You can be stabbed in places a vest doesn't cover. Waiting until the assailant is in a fellow officer's face is hardly a good way to avoid shooting your friend anyway.
[QUOTE=AaronM202;37191110]Because unlike tazers, pistols:
Can hit things from more than 10 Feet.
Can fire it multiple times.
[b]Can blow holes through you.[/b][/QUOTE]
they are pistols not handcannons
[QUOTE=xxncxx;37191091]my opinion is better than yours therefore your opinion is wrong and mine is fact[/QUOTE]
My opinion is better when mine is backed up by facts and your has been proven wrong several times throughout the thread and you have had to change your posts accordingly.
[QUOTE=King Tiger;37191138]My opinion is better when mine is backed up by facts and your has been proven wrong several times throughout the thread and you have had to change your posts accordingly.[/QUOTE]
which post have i changed?
also, are you SERIOUSLY implying that an OPINION, an OPINION that differs from yours means i'm in the wrong and you aren't? so solely based on the fact that i think there could have been more precautions and you don't makes me wrong? are you fucking serious right now?
[QUOTE=xxncxx;37191122]they are pistols not handcannons[/QUOTE]
What the fuck are you doing? Is this PUI or something? Are you trying to be funny?
[QUOTE=Lonestriper;37191108]It's all relative[/QUOTE]
What does that even mean. You can accurately fire a pistol at ranges far greater than the 10 meters of a taser, and a bullet is a lot easier to hit with since it travels so fast and flies so straight.
[QUOTE=xxncxx;37191122]they are pistols not handcannons[/QUOTE]
What do bullets do then?
[QUOTE=Lonestriper;37191099]Police wear stab vests, they maintain a perimeter in which bystanders are not allowed to enter and they have guns.
Isn't it worth a go to use a taser when you have ample backup to protect you?[/QUOTE]
Just because some of them can have stab vests, they wont charge at a lunatic with a knife. And if you check out the video, it wasn't really a knife for stabbing in the first place.
[QUOTE=xxncxx;37191142]which post have i changed?[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=xxncxx;37190859]no one here said cops had aimbots. im pretty sure we already know how tasers worked. even if tasing wasnt a viable option, 5 shots to the stomach is a bit overkill.
[editline]11th August 2012[/editline]
nevermind he did[/QUOTE]
I'm starting to think that you're PUI.
[QUOTE=xxncxx;37191122]they are pistols not handcannons[/QUOTE]
Fun fact: bullets tend to over-penetrate. You don't need a 45 to achieve this effect. This is why things like sub-sonic rounds are used: they make weapons safer to fire in an environment like this.
I don't understand Lonestriper's logic:
"The situation is wrong because the cops used lethal force to kill an armed and dangerous criminal."
However, if non-lethal force is used, as was attempted, and it failed, now you have a dangerous criminal who was given 10 more seconds to run towards officers and pedestrians and harm them. At that point, shooting him is dangerous to civilians and other officers in the area, which gives the criminal even more time to move and harm and stab even more officers. Not only that, but if you're only using a taser, a very inaccurate and unpredictable tool in comparison to a pistol, you run the risk of permanently harming the criminal.
The only way this could have gone down was to kill the assailant before he hurt innocent people or officers.
The maximum distance of a tazer is hardly a stone throw away. I guarantee that if the tazer didn't effect him (which It wouldn't, considering he already shrugged off the pepperspray, which I can tell you is about as painful as a tazer) he would be on that cop stabbing the shit out of him in a quarter of a second. Even if you had 10 cops standing by pointing their weapons at the guy, there wouldn't have been time for them to shoot the guy before he pounced on him. Even if they were, cops wouldn't take the shot. It'd be too easy to crossover the shot.
A tazer was not a viable option.
[QUOTE=Loriborn;37191168]I don't understand Lonestriper's logic:
"The situation is wrong because the cops used lethal force to kill an armed and dangerous criminal."[/QUOTE]
It's more they didn't attempt enough non-lethal force before switching to lethal force.
[QUOTE=xxncxx;37191122]they are pistols not handcannons[/QUOTE]
What the fuck are you even [I]doing?[/I]
[QUOTE=Lonestriper;37191185]It's more they didn't attempt enough non-lethal force before switching to lethal force.[/QUOTE]
Yeah they did.
I didnt know pepper spray was lethal, thanks for the info.
[QUOTE=Lonestriper;37191185]It's more they didn't attempt enough non-lethal force before switching to lethal force.[/QUOTE]
they attempted pepperspray.
[QUOTE=AaronM202;37190734][b]TAZERS ARE USED UP CLOSE, HE HAD A KNIFE.[/b]
Seriously dude.[/QUOTE]
idk dude, if 10.6 meteres (according to Lonestriper) is the max range that seems pretty reasonable
i'm not gonna say the cops were being brutal or anything because i can understand the dude is armed and he won't drop the weapon, but i feel like of all the times to use a taser, this is probably the most legitimate and basically textbook time to do it
[QUOTE=Kopimi;37191197]idk dude, if 10.6 meteres (according to Lonestriper) is the max range that seems pretty reasonable
i'm not gonna say the cops were being brutal or anything because i can understand the dude is armed and he won't drop the weapon, but i feel like of all the times to use a taser, this is probably the most legitimate and basically textbook time to do it[/QUOTE]
Because you totally want to get near the guy with a bigass knife who easily shrugged off pepper spray.
[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;37190788]Tasers can also miss easily and its not like its impossible to resist their effects. It has been done many times before.[/QUOTE]
if the taser doesn't work then aight go and shoot the guy i'm just saying you should at least give it a shot?
[QUOTE=Lonestriper;37191185]It's more they didn't attempt enough non-lethal force before switching to lethal force.[/QUOTE]
Again, Non-lethal force was the part where they yelled at him. Less lethal was the part where they sprayed him with mace. He refused to drop the knife, and was shot.
Please, tell me what the police should have done. And take everything you have been informed of in this thread into consideration.
[QUOTE=xxncxx;37190975]no one said they were for the second time. do you really think 11 cops are going to miss every single shot they take at the guy before he manages to escalate the situation?[/QUOTE]
So everybody should fire in different directions, hoping to hit after the taser fails, sending slugs flying every which way until they embed in a person or thing?
I totally see your logic. They shouldn't take the prepared, safe approach which is a concentrated fire grouping in one direction, and instead should continuously attempt to save the assailant, expending whatever lead is necessary when that fails. I don't know if you know this, but large knives maul people - they don't just cut them. 4 or 5 successful strikes can take a person from fully capable to dead before the ambulance gets there. One hit from a sharp knife can mean full separation for whatever muscle gets between it and bone, fully or nearly disabling the limb.You seem to think that knife wounds are something minor - which is ridiculous considering the size of the blade. It's very hard to stop someone from swinging a knife that large, as it makes their reach longer than yours, and ensures that you have to go through 10 inches of blade before you can get a hold of anything.
If he got on top of a cop, they would be helpless to stop the man as he flailed at the poor officer who attracted his attention.
I'd really recommend you watch some actual videos where the cops try and non-lethally take a drugged man with a knife down. It usually involves a lot of improvisation - like pinning him with a ladder while simultaneously spraying him with a fire-hose. When someone is non-compliant to pain then there isn't a lot you can do unfortunately except try and keep them from hurting others.
[QUOTE=Kopimi;37191209]if the taser doesn't work then aight go and shoot the guy i'm just saying you should at least give it a shot?[/QUOTE]
No?
Because if it didnt work he could have attacked the officer? And because [b]THEY ALREADY USED NON LETHAL FORCE AND IT DIDNT WORK[/b]
Look, I've been shot with a tazer before. It hurts like hell, but I can promise you that if you REALLY don't want to go down, you won't. It's painful, but it's not hard to resist.
And considering he'd already been hit with the spray and didn't go down, all a tazer would do is get an officer within stabbing distance.
Basically: No, they already tried non lethal/less than lethal force, and no, tazers are not a good god damn idea for this situation.
[QUOTE=Kopimi;37191197]idk dude, if 10.6 meteres (according to Lonestriper) is the max range that seems pretty reasonable
i'm not gonna say the cops were being brutal or anything because i can understand the dude is armed and he won't drop the weapon, but i feel like of all the times to use a taser, this is probably the most legitimate and basically textbook time to do it[/QUOTE]
If I remember correctly, tasers have the capability to hit at that range for because from that distance a policeman will have just enough time to draw and fire it if the person were to rush at them full speed. If the taser fails because the guy is on some kind of drug(this seems likely since he shrugged off pepperspray) you're asking the other officers to react and accurately fire in an extremely small window to prevent injury to another officer.
[editline]12th August 2012[/editline]
Adding to my point, trying to hit a moving target in a crowded environment puts everyone in the area at risk.
[QUOTE=Kopimi;37191197]idk dude, if 10.6 meteres (according to Lonestriper) is the max range that seems pretty reasonable
i'm not gonna say the cops were being brutal or anything because i can understand the dude is armed and he won't drop the weapon, but i feel like of all the times to use a taser, this is probably the most legitimate and basically textbook time to do it[/QUOTE]
Might want to remember that those ten meters is as far as it will go. It wont HIT at the point of aim at ten meters, and the guy wasn't exactly standing still.
[QUOTE=Kopimi;37191209]if the taser doesn't work then aight go and shoot the guy i'm just saying you should at least give it a shot?[/QUOTE]
When someone is threatening random bystanders with a lethal weapon, you're not supposed to worry about HIS life, but everyone around him. If an officer went forwards and tased the guy, running so close to his knife for such an asinine reason, he'd get in shit for risking his life without a proper reason.
[QUOTE=AaronM202;37191219]No?
Because if it didnt work he could have attacked the officer? And because [b]THEY ALREADY USED NON LETHAL FORCE AND IT DIDNT WORK[/b][/QUOTE]
eh yeah i guess. like i said i'm not blaming the cops and i totally understand what they did i was just thinking maybe it'd have been a good idea to try the taser but whatever
[QUOTE=CAPSMAN!;37191214]Again, Non-lethal force was the part where they yelled at him. Less lethal was the part where they sprayed him with mace. He refused to drop the knife, and was shot.
Please, tell me what the police should have done. And take everything you have been informed of in this thread into consideration.[/QUOTE]
yelling at someone isn't a "non lethal" takedown, it's a verbal warning like seriously this is the dumbest shit ever
Tasers require two projectiles to hit, not one. They can be dodged much more easily than bullets. They have a far more limited range. The taser's two electrical pins create a charge that causes the shock, and it becomes more painful the grater the distance between the pins. The pain of tasers can be shaken off.
Bullets on the other hand are far faster, far more accurate, and although they aren't guaranteed to incapacitate they will at least cause large amount of pain.
Imagine if you're in the cops position: a man with a knife has already slashes a civillian, meaning he's agressve and fully willing to hurt people. He has shrugged off the effects of pepper spray (which fucking sucks to be sprayed with btw, don't assume it's insignificant), ignored the calls by police to drop his weapon, and he's backpedaling. He's not running away, hoping not to be hurt. He's backpedaling, looking for confrontation so he can possibly slash who comes at him next. You have no idea what his motives are, but since you know he already hurt someone and is not running away, you can probably assume they aren't good.
Now, that consdered, do you use a taser, which is liable to miss and possibly cause you or someone else to be stabbed? Or do you use a gun, which let's you fight from a safer distance and is more likely to incap the knife user?
[QUOTE=Kopimi;37191278]eh yeah i guess. like i said i'm not blaming the cops and i totally understand what they did i was just thinking maybe it'd have been a good idea to try the taser but whatever
[/QUOTE]
You dont "try something" when the result would most likely be you getting horrifically mauled by a bigass knife, or innocent bystanders around you.
[QUOTE=Lonestriper;37191099]Police wear stab vests, they maintain a perimeter in which bystanders are not allowed to enter and they have guns.
Isn't it worth a go to use a taser when you have ample backup to protect you?[/QUOTE]
I suppose that you are more qualified to tell police how to do their jobs based upon 5 seconds of footage, in which a man scrambles up a road.
Lest we forget, he had already slashed an innocent person across the face, and was generally nutty. If tasers were an option, they would have implemented them.
Disregard the fact that there were twelve police officers, they aren't paid to jump on the knife just so they don't have to kill someone who has clearly proven himself a threat. They are paid (and trained) to protect those who are innocent, not the criminals.
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