Police shoot crazy guy waving a knife in the middle of times square, all of it was caught on film
282 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;37190823]Because its not what one would call an "effective" option. It is much more preferable to use real bullets guaranteed to neutralize the threat. They do not shoot to wound, they do not shoot to incapacitate, they do not shoot to hinder. They shoot to kill. In fact, many police departments punish officers who shoot to wound. The point is to eliminate the threat, and the only truly effective way to insure that is to kill the one who poses a threat.[/QUOTE]
Well, I think there were more than 2 officers, and in these situations one could be prepared to shoot lethal bullets while the other could shoot rubber, if the rubber bullets fail then the officer armed with lethal bullets would completely neutralize the threat.
Might be too much work and I have no idea if there was time for that since a maniac with a knife is quite dangerous but it could have saved a life.
Although I am not sure that life was worth saving but hey.
[QUOTE=Marbalo;37195013]there is no way you would be standing. [/QUOTE]
[url=http://www.break.com/index/man-unfazed-by-cops-taser-2315322]Here[/url]
I think this video is relevant.
[video=youtube;g5opC2WeIoI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5opC2WeIoI[/video]
[QUOTE=Fhux;37193812]Can someone explain to me why they didn't just shoot him in the leg or something along those lines? Maybe I missed something in the article, or maybe I'm just stupid, but that's the only thing I don't get.[/QUOTE]
Because that's a seriously hard thing to do to someone who's moving around, and your legs have a lot of major blood vessels in them, getting shot in the thigh is pretty likely to kill you anyway.
Right, I understand. Just me being stupid, sorry about that.
They honestly could have atleast tried harder to stop him.
Non lethal suggestion #2:
Fire scarecrows and frankfurters at him through a giant cannon.
[QUOTE=xxncxx;37190797]it looks like they had more than enough to surround him and get in close enough to tase and neutralize him. shooting him multiple times seems a bit unnecessary
[editline]11th August 2012[/editline]
if one didnt work then another one could have tried, if that still didnt work then shoot him in the knee and tackle him.[/QUOTE]
Because cops are sharpshooters of course.
[QUOTE=ThePinkPanzer;37197428]Because cops are sharpshooters of course.[/QUOTE]
We are talking about really short distances without any rush,
[QUOTE=SEKCobra;37197520]We are talking about really short distances without any rush,[/QUOTE]
Even then their chances of actually hitting the knee cap and missing a major artery is extremely low.
[QUOTE=SEKCobra;37197520]We are talking about really short distances without any rush,[/QUOTE]
while he's moving around, which you kinda need to move your legs a lot to do.
Basically, everyone here who says they should have used tazers or shot his leg dont know shit about how bullet wounds work or how the police operate.
1. They are trained to shoot until the target is no longer a thread.
2. Shooting someone in the leg can easily be as fatal as shooting them in the chest or stomach, more so even depending on where you hit.
3. Tazers are fired from 10 feet away and have been known [b] NOT TO WORK, AND CAN BE SHRUGGED OFF, AND BOTH TONGS MUST HIT THE TARGET FOR IT TO EVEN DO ANYTHING[/b]
4. He already shrugged off Mace/Pepper Spray, less than lethal force was already tried on him.
5. He was already slashing at civilians and hit someone in the face.
So no, they couldnt have brought him in alive unless he cooperated, and since he was very willing to harm people, if the tazer missed, and even if it hit, it probably wouldnt have worked on him, he could easily have charged and stabbed an officer or a civilian.
God Damn.
[QUOTE=Tudd;37197321]They honestly could have atleast tried harder to stop him.[/QUOTE]
They shot him dead, I think that's about as stopped as people get.
Totally justifiable in my opinion.
[editline]12th August 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=AaronM202;37199222]1. They are trained to shoot until the target is no longer a threat.[/QUOTE]
Even regardless of their training, it's virtually impossible to fire a gun only once when under pressure (especially when in front of a threat to your very life).
Also it didn't take long for people to go "they should have used a tazer/they should have shot the weapon off his hand/they should have shot his leg/they should have only fired once/they should have triple karate chopped the knife off his hand".
[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;37190779]Tasers also aren't the most accurate weapons and they can and have caused fatal electrocutions. Point of fact, police are trained to neutralize a threat completely, and take any all all measures to protect their lives and those of bystanders. Tasers do not garuntee a threat will be neutralized, a firearm is far more likely to do so.[/QUOTE]
You are still talking about someone's life.
I am not saying the police did a wrong thing; there were also other people at risk, but I wouldn't diss the idea of tazing him just from principle.
You can always have one guy who tries tazer and if he fails, two other people with actual guns who open fire as last resort.
[QUOTE=Awesomecaek;37200002]You are still talking about someone's life.
I am not saying the police did a wrong thing; there were also other people at risk, but I wouldn't diss the idea of tazing him just from principle.
You can always have one guy who tries tazer and if he fails, two other people with actual guns who open fire as last resort.[/QUOTE]
If we lived in a perfect world, sure.
Ask yourself, how would you operate knowing you might have to kill a guy and that the guy might kill you?
[QUOTE=Awesomecaek;37200002]You are still talking about someone's life.
I am not saying the police did a wrong thing; there were also other people at risk, but I wouldn't diss the idea of tazing him just from principle.
You can always have one guy who tries tazer and if he fails, two other people with actual guns who open fire as last resort.[/QUOTE]
You don't act on principle when pepper spray didn't work and the guy is acting like he might charge you if you try anything.
[QUOTE=Awesomecaek;37200002]You are still talking about someone's life.
I am not saying the police did a wrong thing; there were also other people at risk, but I wouldn't diss the idea of tazing him just from principle.
You can always have one guy who tries tazer and if he fails, two other people with actual guns who open fire as last resort.[/QUOTE]
You're not understanding. By the time he had turned on the taser and gotten close enough to fire it (already extremely dangerous), the man already could've hurt or killed an officer or civilian, and also, adding onto that, they're trained not to react to lethal force with less-then-lethal force.
ITT: learn the 21-foot rule
[QUOTE=AaronM202;37190734][b]TAZERS ARE USED UP CLOSE, HE HAD A KNIFE.[/b]
Seriously dude.[/QUOTE]
Tasers have farther range than a fuckin knife...
[QUOTE=Jurikuer;37200449]Tasers have farther range than a fuckin knife...[/QUOTE]
What if the guy is running towards him at the same time? Not forgetting the same guy also shrugged off pepper spray, meaning there's a good chance that the taser would be ineffective against him or miss entirely.
[QUOTE=Jurikuer;37200449]Tasers have farther range than a fuckin knife...[/QUOTE]
Knives also have a range too.
[QUOTE=Jurikuer;37200449]Tasers have farther range than a fuckin knife...[/QUOTE]
I dont know about you, but I wouldn't want to get close to a guy with a fucking knife. Distance is a force multiplier.
So I spoke with one of my folks who was a police officer (in the UK, so some things could be different.) I was told that when a suspect uses a certain amount of force you are authorised to use that amount of force back, so if they punched you, you can punch them sort of thing. When a weapon becomes involved things get dangerous (goes without saying) because then the clock begins ticking. If you don't take down the subject then you ae giving him more time to hurt civilians or an officer and if that happens you could be looking at the death of 2 people not 1 because you waited.
You also got to take into account if he is a drug user? If so then what kind of drug could he be on? It may affect his nerve system and cause him to keep on coming when you shoot him. Contrary to movies pistols don't blow people away and sometimes they don't stop them. Sometimes they just keep on coming no matter what you do then that's an officers life gone because you waited, because you wanted him to live. An innocents life will always rank above a criminals life in these situations. Cops may be trained but they are also innocents who have the means of protection.
So you could use a water canon, but then that's time being wasted and the man might snap and be a quicker sprinter than they thought, then again a dead officer. A tazor? Well you used pepper spray and that didn't stop him so what makes you think a tazor will work, even with its low chance of success, and what if you fire and he is on some drug which takes a few seconds for his body to register that he has been shot, seconds you do not have.
My mother nearly died because of a men like him, her partner saved her but he ended up becomming injured. (no guns in the uk for cops like her) so when I see stories like this and people defending the suspect, it gets me mad because while they may have opinions, unless they are a cop or someone along those lines, they don't know what the fuck they are talking about.
Sorry for the long read. Had to do it on my iPad so expect errors.
(also I realise the irony, I'm not a cop but I'm preaching this.)
[QUOTE=Jurikuer;37200449]Tasers have farther range than a fuckin knife...[/QUOTE]
Lean forwards until you're nearly off balance, hold your arm out and then add ten inches. Does moving closer to that guy still seem like a good idea to you?
[QUOTE=Morris Vander;37198030]while he's moving around, which you kinda need to move your legs a lot to do.[/QUOTE]
Have you ever fired a gun? I don't know if you watch too much FPSRussia or something, but most people who went to a range a few times can hit a target like this with ease.
Hell, birds are harder targets than this.
[QUOTE=SEKCobra;37200957]Have you ever fired a gun? I don't know if you watch too much FPSRussia or something, but most people who went to a range a few times can hit a target like this with ease.
Hell, birds are harder targets than this.[/QUOTE]
Yes, smartass, anyone who goes to a gun range is automatically a sharpshooter and can hit a bird right out of the air with a fucking 9mm. do you understand how guns work?
[QUOTE=Morris Vander;37200433]You're not understanding. By the time he had turned on the taser and gotten close enough to fire it (already extremely dangerous), the man already could've hurt or killed an officer or civilian, and also, adding onto that, they're trained not to react to lethal force with less-then-lethal force.[/QUOTE]
Bullshit, multiple officers on the scene, there could always have been one to jsut shoot him if he acts up, LTL is an easy option here, people are just disregarding human life with such ease nowadays, as long as it's not yours, eh?
But no, you would never get in such a situation so it's ok for people who do to jsut be shot with better solutions available and even trained.
A Tazer would be extremely easy to deploy here, if it fails no harm is done, if he charges anyone there's always the option to shoot. And no one stands after being hit by 10 beanbags in a row, which by the way every squad has in the trunk or front.
[editline]12th August 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Morris Vander;37201039]Yes, smartass, anyone who goes to a gun range is automatically a sharpshooter and can hit a bird right out of the air with a fucking 9mm. do you understand how guns work?[/QUOTE]
OH NOW THE GUN IS PHYSICALLY UNABLE TO HIT THE TARGET? Jesus christ fire a gun before you even try arguing, this isn't sharpshooting, sharpshooting is when you have to consider wind and drop, this is just aim and fire, anyone with the most basic experience could do it.
terrible police teamwork, they had like 5+ officers aiming for the suspect, was it really that hard to at least TRY non-lethal force?? a bullet is much faster than a person charging in
triggerhappy cops should be sacked ASAP for the protection of society
[QUOTE=SEKCobra;37200957]Have you ever fired a gun? I don't know if you watch too much FPSRussia or something, but most people who went to a range a few times can hit a target like this with ease.
Hell, birds are harder targets than this.[/QUOTE]
I think it's more of a case of, if they miss, could they potentially injure an innocent. No matter how confident you are at shooting,you don't want to take that risk.
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