Police shoot crazy guy waving a knife in the middle of times square, all of it was caught on film
282 replies, posted
[QUOTE=SEKCobra;37201040]Bullshit, multiple officers on the scene, there could always have been one to jsut shoot him if he acts up, LTL is an easy option here, people are just disregarding human life with such ease nowadays, as long as it's not yours, eh?
But no, you would never get in such a situation so it's ok for people who do to jsut be shot with better solutions available and even trained.
A Tazer would be extremely easy to deploy here, if it fails no harm is done, if he charges anyone there's always the option to shoot. And no one stands after being hit by 10 beanbags in a row, which by the way every squad has in the trunk or front.
[editline]12th August 2012[/editline]
OH NOW THE GUN IS PHYSICALLY UNABLE TO HIT THE TARGET? Jesus christ fire a gun before you even try arguing, this isn't sharpshooting, sharpshooting is when you have to consider wind and drop, this is just aim and fire, anyone with the most basic experience could do it.[/QUOTE]
[I]if it fails no harm done?[/I] listen to yourself, if it fails, he's weaponless, mere feet from a target [I]fucking charging him with a butchers knife.[/I] And no, police don't carry shotguns filled with beanbag shells everywhere, they carry them with buckshot.
[editline]12th August 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Zeemlapje;37201068]terrible police teamwork, they had like 5+ officers aiming for the suspect, was it really that hard to at least TRY non-lethal force?? a bullet is much faster than a person charging in
triggerhappy cops should be sacked ASAP for the protection of society[/QUOTE]
I'm not even going to start, go back and read the thread, dumbass.
[QUOTE=Morris Vander;37201087][I]if it fails no harm done?[/I] listen to yourself, if it fails, he's weaponless, mere feet from a target [I]fucking charging him with a butchers knife.[/I] And no, police don't carry shotguns filled with beanbag shells everywhere, they carry them with buckshot.
[/QUOTE]
Last time I read their policies, every NYPD car had a clearly marked (blue) shotgun in the trunk ready to deploy LTL rounds. And no one would be defenseless, there were multiple officers.
News flash
Hit the leg in the wrong spot the guy is still going to bleed to death.
News flash
If you were in the same situation you wouldn't be trying to save the life of someone who might end yours
News flash
Cops are trained to neutralize a threat as swiftly and effectively as possible.
News flash
Less than lethal options were already used to no success on the suspect.
[QUOTE=SEKCobra;37201132]Last time I read their policies, every NYPD car had a clearly marked (blue) shotgun in the trunk ready to deploy LTL rounds. And no one would be defenseless, there were multiple officers.[/QUOTE]
Read this very carefully. there is a man, most likely high, who previously shrugged off pepper spray without faltering, and is wielding a large knife. What do you do?
A. Try to take him down non-lethally, however your very close range to him, so he has a chance of hurting or killing you, and it might not have an effect on him at all.
B. Shoot him and kill him to make sure he can't harm any police or civilians.
You're basically saying right now that you'd rather a cop die and a criminal live so that he can be sent to jail, over the criminal dying and the police living.
I don't understand the need to shoot him as many times as they did. People usually drop after the first shot to the chest.
OC is ineffective on about 10 % of the people it's used on, it works with pain and pain alone, a Tazer actually neutralises your muscles, the reasons for shrugging off a taser are completely different. Ending a life should always be a last resort.
Also yes I am saying we should rather have children raped than not screen the whole internet traffic- I mena we should rather have a cop killed because that's the likeliest case and all~~~ :))))
[QUOTE=Mr. Smartass;37201240]I don't understand the need to shoot him as many times as they did. People usually drop after the first shot to the chest.[/QUOTE]
Not really.
[QUOTE=G3rman;37201277]Not really.[/QUOTE]
Uhm, yes, yes they do. And they don't keep running after being shot. There's no shrugging off a police bullet to the chest.
[QUOTE=Mr. Smartass;37201240]I don't understand the need to shoot him as many times as they did. People usually drop after the first shot to the chest.[/QUOTE]
When they're on drugs, no.
[QUOTE=Mr. Smartass;37201240]I don't understand the need to shoot him as many times as they did. People usually drop after the first shot to the chest.[/QUOTE]
The reason they shot him more the once was to make sure he absolutely did go down, instead of just maybe going down. It's surprising how people can shrug off a bullet wound while they're hyped up on adrenaline.
I think you guys have absolutely no idea what you are talking about, you can't shrug off a chest wound like a flesh wound. Please come back after you have actually seen people with these kinda injuries.
[QUOTE=SEKCobra;37201335]I think you guys have absolutely no idea what you are talking about, you can't shrug off a chest wound like a flesh wound. Please come back after you have actually seen people with these kinda injuries.[/QUOTE]
...
You're joking right?
[QUOTE=CAPSMAN!;37190703]We need to ban Rambo-type assault knives.[/QUOTE]
brb buying rambo knife
Uhm, no?
[QUOTE=SEKCobra;37201335]I think you guys have absolutely no idea what you are talking about, you can't shrug off a chest wound like a flesh wound. Please come back after you have actually seen people with these kinda injuries.[/QUOTE]
Have you ever been shot? Have you ever been on drugs while being shot? Have you ever shot someone? Have you ever shot someone on drugs? No? Well then you don't know what the fuck you are talking about. I refer you to my long ass post.
[QUOTE=SEKCobra;37201362]Uhm, no?[/QUOTE]
[video=youtube;o4t1a_v9sG4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4t1a_v9sG4&feature=related[/video]
[video=youtube;GGOmtyTJ2f0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGOmtyTJ2f0&feature=related[/video]
Not on drugs, ran away after being shot point blank.
This guy, has a knife, and please tell me that in a situation like this you would want to use less than lethal means
[video=youtube;J6gcFPjdwiI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6gcFPjdwiI&feature=related[/video]
Your post wasn't long. Your post didn't have guns.
I haven't been shot myself, and I haven't been forced to shoot a person either, but I regularly treat gunshot victims and even more see them in the OR, so I definitely think I have a hell of a lot better idea about that crap than you.
[editline]12th August 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Resfan;37201581][video=youtube;o4t1a_v9sG4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4t1a_v9sG4&feature=related[/video]
[video=youtube;GGOmtyTJ2f0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGOmtyTJ2f0&feature=related[/video]
Not on drugs, ran away after being shot point blank.
This guy, has a knife, and please tell me that in a situation like this you would want to use less than lethal means
[video=youtube;J6gcFPjdwiI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6gcFPjdwiI&feature=related[/video][/QUOTE]
Different kind of ammunition and calibre. And those shots were completely unaimed.
[QUOTE=SEKCobra;37201594]Your post wasn't long. Your post didn't have guns.
I haven't been shot myself, and I haven't been forced to shoot a person either, but I regularly treat gunshot victims and even more see them in the OR, so I definitely think I have a hell of a lot better idea about that crap than you.[/QUOTE]
You've treated people after the fact.
While they are being shot at, anything could happen.
They could go down, they could run, they could surrender willfully (without going down), they could attack their shooter, anything can happen when you have adrenaline pumping through your body.
After the adrenaline is gone, well yeah, they're going to give up. That's not counting what people do while on drugs and how it affect their nervous system.
[QUOTE=SEKCobra;37201594] Different kind of ammunition and calibre. And those shots were completely unaimed.[/QUOTE]
Umm... all but one of the people in those videos died from the gunshots.
So aimed or unaimed, they still hit, they still killed the target, and the targets STILL ran away/returned fire.
No, that's physically wrong.
[QUOTE=SEKCobra;37201656]No, that's physically wrong.[/QUOTE]
That doesnt matter, it happened and does happen whether you are willing to admit it or not.
Yes my admittance will suddenly change human physiology, I can't believe how much you guys pull out of your ass to try and make an argument that shouldn't exist. Have a good one circlejerking about how necessary this killing was.
[QUOTE=SEKCobra;37201701]Yes my admittance will suddenly change human physiology, I can't believe how much you guys pull out of your ass to try and make an argument that shouldn't exist. Have a good one circlejerking about how necessary this killing was.[/QUOTE]
Well by all means become a cop and then in every situation where you need to neutralize a person wielding a weapon you must take them down LTL.
Get back with us on how that goes if you live every encounter.
Why all the hate? He just thought the Police officers faces were too pretty. So he had to take a knife to it, and slice it.
[QUOTE=SEKCobra;37201701]Yes my admittance will suddenly change human physiology, I can't believe how much you guys pull out of your ass to try and make an argument that shouldn't exist. Have a good one circlejerking about how necessary this killing was.[/QUOTE]
Now I'm sad. Also no your admittance does not change human physiology that was never stated, but evidence was presented showing on occasion that things can defy what we know and hold as truth. Whether the killing was necessary or not is in some ways a circle jerk but not for the "everyone deserves to live stance you take." (which is an assumption not fact) we can look on from the sidelines and try and make our opinions sound better than the other whether it's from me knowing a cop, or you treating people after the fact, or just evidence all amounts to shit. The facts are, none of us were there, we don't the events leading up to this, what happened and why in the end the officers decided to shoot, they did what they did in what they believed to be the best for all. The man made his choice and the police made theirs, short of inventing a time machine nothing is going to change that.
Be happy that no-body else had to die.
[QUOTE=Mr. Smartass;37201240]I don't understand the need to shoot him as many times as they did. People usually drop after the first shot to the chest.[/QUOTE]
First of, no, it doesn't. If you're lucky enough to hit the heart (aka a relatively small organ compared to the size of a human chest that's hidden behind a pair of lungs and ribs and muscle), then yeah you'll get a one hit kill, but shooting virtually everywhere else in the chest will not stop someone, let alone an adrenaline rushed, crazed individual that already resisted the use of several non lethal weapons. Adrenaline is spectacularly good at inhibiting pain and a lot of people who have been engaged in firefights and who have taken several bullets have later explained than in the heat of the moment, you won't feel an intense pain that will run you to the ground defenseless.
Second, it was shoot to kill. You can't be sure with a single bullet. They are trained to fire unless the target is no longer a threat.
Last but not least, discharging your firearm once in such a situation is something that only an incredibly calm person or a very good weapon expert (or both) could accomplish. Because firearms like the pistols the police is issued with only operates in semi-automatic doesn't mean you can't pull the trigger several time in a row because of panicking, pressure or once again adrenaline. Triggers are extremely sensitive and there isn't all that much room before or after reaching the point where the gun discharges : you can very easily ease off for a millisecond and pull the trigger again, which is very likely to happen in a situation where you have to take out a direct threat to your life.
[editline]13th August 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=SEKCobra;37201701]Yes my admittance will suddenly change human physiology, I can't believe how much you guys pull out of your ass to try and make an argument that shouldn't exist. Have a good one circlejerking about how necessary this killing was.[/QUOTE]
Quite honestly it's not much about how necessary the killing was and more about how there was no better thing to do. There is no pride to have in killing someone, even if that person is actively trying to kill you or others, but if that is the only way to stop the threat without causing more harm, then it shall be done.
We're not even talking about some sort of lesser evil here, the guy was an immediate threat, the use of non lethal weapons had failed, and they could not afford diplomacy. Killing him was the most efficient way to neutralize the threat.
[editline]13th August 2012[/editline]
Oh and before you go on about how they should have used a tazer, read about the 21 feet rule.
[editline]13th August 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=SEKCobra;37201335]I think you guys have absolutely no idea what you are talking about, you can't shrug off a chest wound like a flesh wound. Please come back after you have actually seen people with these kinda injuries.[/QUOTE]
I have not personally taken any sort of bullet to the chest, so I can't explain how it feels and how much it actually hurts.
But I believe you have not personally taken any sort of bullet to the chest either, so as far as I know you can't explain either, so I suggest you do as we do and base yourself on the testimony and expertise of people who either know their shit or did get shot to the chest.
[QUOTE=SEKCobra;37201335]I think you guys have absolutely no idea what you are talking about, you can't shrug off a chest wound like a flesh wound. Please come back after you have actually seen people with these kinda injuries.[/QUOTE]
You really have no idea. Your brain isn't perfect. Muscles will keep moving until they tear and collapse in the heat of the moment, when you are trying to survive. You can stand with a hole in your chest, you just can't breathe if your lungs have taken damage and you might not have more than 8 seconds of futility if your heart's been hit.
Some people have been stabbed or shot many times and only realized after escaping that they were grievously injured. You only really have a sense of surface damage, not internal. A gunshot wound feels like torn skin and broken bones, not a lot more. The shock that sets in also tends to aid in the tolerance for movement as a biological mechanism.
It's nothing like your video games.
Also - if you've seen nothing of the like, what business do you have thinking you have the authority to dismiss all evidence and claims as misconstrued and that you are the only right person here? Those are videos where people get shot, and then run - yet you dismiss them as if they were fabricated for the sole purpose of debasing your completely unreasonable argument. They were shot in vital areas, ran, and did not 'drop' until they later died due to blood loss or shock.
[editline]12th August 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=SEKCobra;37201040]Bullshit, multiple officers on the scene, there could always have been one to jsut shoot him if he acts up, LTL is an easy option here, people are just disregarding human life with such ease nowadays, as long as it's not yours, eh?
But no, you would never get in such a situation so it's ok for people who do to jsut be shot with better solutions available and even trained.
A Tazer would be extremely easy to deploy here, if it fails no harm is done, if he charges anyone there's always the option to shoot. And no one stands after being hit by 10 beanbags in a row, which by the way every squad has in the trunk or front.
[editline]12th August 2012[/editline]
OH NOW THE GUN IS PHYSICALLY UNABLE TO HIT THE TARGET? Jesus christ fire a gun before you even try arguing, this isn't sharpshooting, sharpshooting is when you have to consider wind and drop, this is just aim and fire, anyone with the most basic experience could do it.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=FreakyMe;37191216]So everybody should fire in different directions, hoping to hit after the taser fails, sending slugs flying every which way until they embed in a person or thing?
I totally see your logic. They shouldn't take the prepared, safe approach which is a concentrated fire grouping in one direction, and instead should continuously attempt to save the assailant, expending whatever lead is necessary when that fails. I don't know if you know this, but large knives maul people - they don't just cut them. 4 or 5 successful strikes can take a person from fully capable to dead before the ambulance gets there. One hit from a sharp knife can mean full separation for whatever muscle gets between it and bone, fully or nearly disabling the limb.You seem to think that knife wounds are something minor - which is ridiculous considering the size of the blade. It's very hard to stop someone from swinging a knife that large, as it makes their reach longer than yours, and ensures that you have to go through 10 inches of blade before you can get a hold of anything.
If he got on top of a cop, they would be helpless to stop the man as he flailed at the poor officer who attracted his attention.
I'd really recommend you watch some actual videos where the cops try and non-lethally take a drugged man with a knife down. It usually involves a lot of improvisation - like pinning him with a ladder while simultaneously spraying him with a fire-hose. When someone is non-compliant to pain then there isn't a lot you can do unfortunately except try and keep them from hurting others.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;37190788]Tasers can also miss easily and its not like its impossible to resist their effects. It has been done many times before.[/QUOTE]
Then where you have more than one cop in any assistance, one has a tazer and is the first to fire, if the target is still a threat then the others can open fire with their sidearms. I'm not sure about the price difference between a taser and a firearm but it'd be good if there was one taser for every 2 cops. It means a lethal solution is already to hand where less-than-lethal action is not viable. If it's a cop on his own it'd probably be standard procedure to only be armed with a handgun since drawing the taser instead might be fatal when the assailant's not being covered with a lethal weapon
Other than that, I'd say it was completely justified. How often do shootings or major crimes take place in Times Square?
[QUOTE=Morbo!!!;37206137]Then where you have more than one cop in any assistance, one has a tazer and is the first to fire, if the target is still a threat then the others can open fire with their sidearms. I'm not sure about the price difference between a taser and a firearm but it'd be good if there was one taser for every 2 cops. It means a lethal solution is already to hand where less-than-lethal action is not viable. If it's a cop on his own it'd probably be standard procedure to only be armed with a handgun since drawing the taser instead might be fatal when the assailant's not being covered with a lethal weapon
Other than that, I'd say it was completely justified. How often do shootings or major crimes take place in Times Square?[/QUOTE]
How do you safely shoot some one who is sprinting at some one.
[QUOTE=ThePinkPanzer;37206191]How do you safely shoot some one who is sprinting at some one.[/QUOTE]
With the taser? You don't, you shoot them with the gun. Unless you mean someone sprinting at someone else. Then the guy with taser shoots him, depending on the situation. If a cop is on his own in such a situation, the pistol would be the only good solution because if the threat isn't put down it can cause more damage than the potential collateral damage. While the taser might have much lower chances of killing the target, they sometimes don't work at all, a lone policeman may get killed making the wrong choice. If 2 or more cops have a taser between them, then the lethal solution is instantly applicable if its necessity is apparent. The US and other countries all give police the responsibility and power of firearms, but having a non-lethal solution available without majorly compromising their safety is just common sense if you ask me. I've not really explored the lethal vs. LTLa rgument, so again I don't know about things like the price of a taser vs that of a hand-gun. It'd be nice if there was a taser attachment to pistols.
[QUOTE=SEKCobra;37201300]Uhm, yes, yes they do. And they don't keep running after being shot. There's no shrugging off a police bullet to the chest.[/QUOTE]
I don't mean to come in here and start arguments, but you are entirely correct. You would be surprised what adrenaline does to the human body. Shooting someone doesn't instantly make them go down. Especially if it is a 9mm. A strong .45 would indeed do a hell of a job dropping someone, but again it isn't a textbook thing. A .45 might drop some people, but some people might have the ability to shrug it off and use that extra adrenaline boost to carry out their plan.
I just noticed your post saying post when you have seen this.
Unfortunately I have seen these kinds of injuries. I have seen them go both ways as well. I have seen someone shot with a .22 and drop instantly in pain. I have also seen someone who had 3 .45 rounds in their chest and were standing and was kind of resisting aid from medical personnel. It all depends on the person and what is going on with their body and brain chemistry plays a huge role in this as well.
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