• 4-year-old boy dies after being mauled by pit bulls in Detroit
    193 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Gary D;49272540]Imo Pitbulls should be banned.[/QUOTE] What happens to domestic dogs when they can no longer be owned domestically?
[QUOTE=Raidyr;49272494]But the statistics are easily skewed by dog demographics and human influence, as I posted earlier. Of course even with these deviances they are still the most violent breed (in terms of rates of attack) but the numbers are still a drop in the bucket compared to the overall population of pit bulls.[/QUOTE] They're animals that were specifically bred for centuries to be violent. The comparisons that people are making with black people are absurd. Were black people bred for for something? [QUOTE]Pit bulls make up only 6% of the dog population, but they’re responsible for 68% of dog attacks and 52% of dog-related deaths since 1982, according to research compiled by Merritt Clifton, editor of Animals 24-7, an animal-news organization that focuses on humane work and animal-cruelty prevention.[[URL="http://time.com/2891180/kfc-and-the-pit-bull-attack-of-a-little-girl/"]x[/URL]][/QUOTE] The statistics are pretty obvious and its fair to call these dogs that are so violent and deadly monsters.
We also have to look at WHY dogs attack. Not always is it "just because". [QUOTE]Major co-occurrent factors for the 256 DBRFs included absence of an able-bodied person to intervene, incidental or no familiar relationship of victims with dogs, owner failure to neuter dogs, compromised ability of victims to interact appropriately with dogs, dogs kept isolated from regular positive human interactions versus family dogs, owners' prior mismanagement of dogs, and owners' history of abuse or neglect of dogs. Four or more of these factors co-occurred in 206 (80.5%) deaths. For 401 dogs described in various media accounts, reported breed differed for 124 (30.9%); for 346 dogs with both media and animal control breed reports, breed differed for 139 (40.2%). Valid breed determination was possible for only 45 (17.6%) DBRFs; 20 breeds, including 2 known mixes, were identified.[/QUOTE] [[URL="https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24299544"]x[/URL]] You gotta remember that a lot of these situations are very preventable and the media is very responsible for furthering the stigma against bully breeds.
[QUOTE=Raidyr;49272544]What happens to domestic dogs when they can no longer be owned domestically?[/QUOTE] Just like guns, they cease to be an issue and bad people can never get their hands on them and use them for bad things oh wait
[QUOTE=aznz888;49272519]personally i think pit bulls are fine, its just that we really need an owner quality check lets be real, this guy was living in detroit, he was probably pretty shitty to his dogs. [I]any[/I] owner that treats their dog like trash raises it with a ton of behavioral problems and instinct issues, but its also prevalent in hood culture to own a "hood" dog, which tends to be pit bulls[/QUOTE] Any dog raised in a bad environment by a lazy owner will have a bad temperament. Now make the dog the most sensitive dog breed you can imagine. Now consider that the owner specifically got this breed for it's reputation for viciousness. Then realize why statistics can come across as unfair.
[QUOTE=Rangergxi;49272547]They're animals that were specifically bred for centuries to be violent. The comparisons that people are making with black people are absurd. Were black people bred for for something? The statistics are pretty obvious and its fair to call these dogs that are so violent and deadly monsters.[/QUOTE] No, Grenadiac's not comparing the pit situation to black people He's talking about the way you only picked out one part of his post to make him seem like a bad person and he did the same to your post to show you why that's not a good thing
Another thing is, Golden Retrievers and Labs actually bite more than pitbulls, but pitbull attacks have a much much higher chance of being fatal. Basically pitbulls are expert level dog ownership so don't fuck up or someone could die
[QUOTE=Raidyr;49272544]What happens to domestic dogs when they can no longer be owned domestically?[/QUOTE] Ban them and grandfather the current generation of dogs so that we don't have to have some kind of dog genocide.
[QUOTE=Rangergxi;49272591]Ban them and grandfather the current generation of dogs so that we don't have to have some kind of dog genocide.[/QUOTE] If you ban them then what the fuck is gonna happen. To all the ones currently being owned? Take them away? Good fucking luck.
[QUOTE=Rangergxi;49272591]Ban them and grandfather the current generation of dogs so that we don't have to have some kind of dog genocide.[/QUOTE] Not gonna work, they're here now and they aren't going away.
[QUOTE=Rangergxi;49272547]They're animals that were specifically bred for centuries to be violent. The comparisons that people are making with black people are absurd. Were black people bred for for something? The statistics are pretty obvious and its fair to call these dogs that are so violent and deadly monsters.[/QUOTE] They were bred to be fast yet strong. You can't breed a dog for violence. What you can do is breed a dog with optimal abilities in a dogfight then train it to attack other dogs. Also, they were bred for fighting for a few decades then used as driving dogs and general companions. Come on man this is basic wikipedia stuff. Stop resorting to namecalling and do a little research. [QUOTE=Pascall;49272555]We also have to look at WHY dogs attack. Not always is it "just because". [[URL="https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24299544"]x[/URL]] You gotta remember that a lot of these situations are very preventable and the media is very responsible for furthering the stigma against bully breeds.[/QUOTE] Amazing. Any one of those factors [I]alone [/I]is a big no no in dog training but the fact that the vast majority of pit bull attacks included [B]four [/B]of them is astounding and a look into the conditions that create these examples. [QUOTE=Rangergxi;49272591]Ban them and grandfather the current generation of dogs so that we don't have to have some kind of dog genocide.[/QUOTE] That would just delay a dog genocide one generation though. The result is the same: An entire breed of dog rendered extinct because the tiny minority of them are violent.
[QUOTE=ghghop;49272623]If you ban them then what the fuck is gonna happen. To all the ones currently being owned? Take them away? Good fucking luck.[/QUOTE] Didn't ranger just say "grandfather the current generation"? That doesn't sound like "taking them away".
[QUOTE=Rangergxi;49272468]But statistically they're the most violent and most deadly breed.[/QUOTE] Most statistics I've seen have been extremely to the contrary to that, could you please post your sources? The AMVA originally thought that pitbulls were a more dangerous breed because of the number of attacks but under controlled studies they found no link between breed and aggression. [QUOTE=AMVA]Breed is a poor sole predictor of dog bites. Controlled studies reveal no increased risk for the group blamed most often for dog bites, ‘pit bull-type’ dogs. Accordingly, targeting this breed or any another as a basis for dog bite prevention is unfounded. As stated by the National Animal Control Association: “Dangerous and/or vicious animals should be labeled as such as a result of their actions or behavior and not because of their breed.[/QUOTE] [url]https://www.avma.org/KB/Resources/LiteratureReviews/Pages/The-Role-of-Breed-in-Dog-Bite-Risk-and-Prevention.aspx[/url] Instead, many different researches have all found that the stronger link between dog bites was to the owner, and there was an extreme corellation between "dangerous" dog breeds and owners, hard to find a source for this that isn't behind a paywall but there's many that exist. Basically the end result of banning pitbulls or some stupid shit like that would probably just be shitty people buying dogs that could do even more damage. Instead, I'd say we should be treating people as severe criminals. You could also pass legislation related to check-ups on dogs, saying that in the case that someone reports a dog as being dangerous and off leash to the police they should have to allow the police to look into it. All of this would require extension investigation into effectiveness but honestly just shouting "BAN THE PITBULLS" is likely to help no one.
You will never be able to fully ban a dog breed. What about mixes? What about shelter dogs? Are they to all be euthanized? Are mixes subject to being killed off too? What about no-kill shelters who refuse to go against their policy? Are they just going to start shipping mixes off to kill shelters? What about illegal breeding that happens [I]anyway[/I] and will only be more rampant and more monetized with the banning of a breed? Banning a breed does not solve the problem. It'll only create more.
[QUOTE=Snickerdoodle;49272635]Didn't ranger just say "grandfather the current generation"? That doesn't sound like "taking them away".[/QUOTE] He said ban them and simultaneously grandfather the breed out, but the breed isn't gonna go away with one generation and if there is a ban that implies it's illegal to own a pit bull and that would also happen to include legal removal of the dogs. As Raidyr said, it'd only deter a genocide by a generation
[QUOTE=Elspin;49272642]You could also pass legislation related to check-ups on dogs, saying that in the case that someone reports a dog as being dangerous and off leash to the police they should have to allow the police to look into it. All of this would require extension investigation into effectiveness but honestly just shouting "BAN THE PITBULLS" is likely to help no one.[/QUOTE] This needs to happen regardless of breed. I don't know what it's like where you live but everywhere I've lived in the states leash laws have been utterly unenforced and complaints from neighbors ignored. They are seen as "blue laws"; on the book regulations that no one really enforces. As long as police here have that attitude attacks will continue to happen.
It's a better idea to enforce muzzles when in public and fining people for not restraining their animals properly, it's a problem inherent to any large and strong breed. Banning a breed isn't going to do shit and is a knee-jerk reaction.
[QUOTE=Raidyr;49272672]This needs to happen regardless of breed. I don't know what it's like where you live but everywhere I've lived in the states leash laws have been utterly unenforced and complaints from neighbors ignored. They are seen as "blue laws"; on the book regulations that no one really enforces. As long as police here have that attitude attacks will continue to happen.[/QUOTE] Pretty much the same here, there's even a place in Vancouver where dogs keep hurting themselves or even dying because they jump off an 11m ledge and 100% of those dogs are off-leash, of course. Never any punishments of course for irresponsible ownership, and in fact the media mostly just gets angry at the park for not putting huge fences everywhere. [QUOTE=wheel_user;49272683]It's a better idea to enforce muzzles when in public and fining people for not restraining their animals properly, it's a problem inherent to any large and strong breed. Banning a breed isn't going to do shit and is a knee-jerk reaction.[/QUOTE] I agree that banning the breed isn't going to do shit but muzzles won't help too much either, a lot of attacks occur near the place of residence (including this one) and you can't expect them to be muzzled 24/7.
[QUOTE=wheel_user;49272683]It's a better idea to enforce muzzles when in public and fining people for not restraining their animals properly, it's a problem inherent to any large and strong breed. Banning a breed isn't going to do shit and is a knee-jerk reaction.[/QUOTE] tbh good muzzles (ones that don't restrict the dog's jaw movement) isn't a bad idea.
[QUOTE=Buck.;49271500]You don't need a license to become a parent. Somehow I doubt they will put a system like that in place for pitbulls.[/QUOTE] The solution is to ban children obviously.
[QUOTE=Zang-Pog;49273017]Do you really think a properly trained and raised dog would even think about mauling somebody all of a sudden even when it's "[I]a terrible breed just created to murder innocent childern and every thing that is innocent and holy [/I]"[/QUOTE] Yes. [url]http://blog.dogsbite.org/2011/08/2011-fatality-pregnant-pacifica-woman.html[/url]
[QUOTE=HybridTheroy;49271423]You should have to earn a certificate/license to own a pit bull.[/QUOTE] This is a real post from a real person holy shit hahahahahahahaha [highlight](User was permabanned for this post ("Bad post, bad poster" - postal))[/highlight]
[QUOTE=Lium;49273160]Yes. [URL]http://blog.dogsbite.org/2011/08/2011-fatality-pregnant-pacifica-woman.html[/URL][/QUOTE] While it's obvious that the dog, in this case, is responsible, we still don't know specifics. Using stories like this don't prove a whole lot because we have no idea what could have possibly happened. Any dog is capable of attacking, biting, and even mauling a person, but more often than not, it's something the human did that they didn't mean to that triggered it. Getting too close to a dog when it's scared or feeling trapped, could be that the person was in between the dog and something it wanted, could be that the dog legitimately had something wrong with it besides just a predisposition to violence. Just don't really know.
Are there any training or education programs that teach people how to handle large dog breeds or what to do in the event of an attack? If not, I think that's something pitbull advocates may want to jump onto. Education/familiarity will help fight the fear of pitbulls and help to prevent or lessen future incidents.
[QUOTE=Zang-Pog;49273206]How can you be so sure the dogs had a good home, because I'm pretty sure no animal does something like that unless there is some weird stuff going on in either the household or the way the dog is raised[/QUOTE] She was a pitbull advocate, what more do you want? Hell, her husband is so deluded he actually didn't even blame the dog and fucking had its ashes buried with her.
[QUOTE=HybridTheroy;49271510] You don't buy children capable of ripping out the esophogas of other children on instinct.[/QUOTE] Kids can become adults that do way worse shit if you don't parent them right. Some will still do bad things even if they had perfect upbringing. Same goes for dogs, some pit bulls attack people because their owner is a shit, and some attack their own perfect owners. I don't think that a mandatory training course on being a responsible pet owner would be a bad idea. My point is we don't have anything like that for children, who are unarguably more important to raise right.
[QUOTE=maddogsamurai;49271583]Look I get that pit bulls are the center of this aggressive problem, but with [I]normal training and care [/I]they can be sweet and lovable as any other dog breed. We honestly can't do jack shit about "measures". Vets, mills, or whoever would have tabs on too many people that could be a mess. The best we could do for pit bull owners is give them 1/2 off lessons with adopting them. Their fault if they don't attend and it turns out that they don't know how to raise a dog.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=ghghop;49271714]Fuck off, there are millions of pit bulls and you're condemning the whole breed because you read about one mauling every 3 months or so. If the trainer isn't a dipshit then they're more friendly than a lot of common breeds, even for children.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=ghghop;49271714]They aren't ferocious by default, that's something they're taught. You choose a pitbull because they are deathly loyal, friendly beyond compare and compassionate more so than a lot of other dog breeds.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=ghghop;49271757]This whole thread is just gonna become a shit show of people screaming to either make it impossible to own a perfectly safe animal or cull the entire breed from existence while the people who have spent time alongside these amazing creatures and understand them (I mean more than a few pit bulls not someone who knows of just 1) defend them to the death because they aren't fucking monsters and the lack of understanding shouldn't be reason to kill them all[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Lunik;49271782]Pit Bulls are some of the nicest dog breeds, seriously. But the prevailing idea of them being monsters leads terrible assholes to buy them, and it's those assholes who raise them to be fierce monsters. If you treat them like any other pet dog you're basically going to have a dog that will never think about mauling people to death. Pit Bulls in general were bred to do blood sports, yes. But people somehow think that all that murderous instinct is physically bred into the dog and not taught to the puppies at a young age. Even now when dog fighting is deemed illegal, people still only see these breeds as being capable of violence and nothing more. And in case you haven't noticed, living beings are capable of more than one thing, especially when that one thing is some weird unnatural purpose like being forced to fight your own kind constantly.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Snickerdoodle;49271902]Can we agree that "this lady was attacked by a pit" and "my pit never attacked anyone" aren't valid criticisms/support of the entire breed?[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Snickerdoodle;49271919]A cherry picked event isn't evidence against a cherry picked situation. It just means both were shit arguments.[/QUOTE] These are just a handful of comments, only from the first page of the thread. Could you guys explain this for us? A 'sweet and lovable' dog brutally mauling a man, leaving him dying in a massive pool of his own blood: [url]http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=69f_1327285704[/url] Here's another 'friendly' dog doing the same to a 58 year old woman: [url]http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=096_1382129917[/url] Here's another 'perfectly safe' dog brutalising 9 people at a gas station: [url]http://greece.greekreporter.com/2015/05/24/crazed-pit-bull-attacks-and-injures-9-people-in-thessaloniki-video/[/url] Here's a 'nice' dog brutalising another dog while a group of people kick the shit out of it and fail to remove it: [url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBCSLWIeexU[/url] Here's a 'playful' dog mauling a child: [url]http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=dfb_1409100560&comments=1[/url] Here's a 'deathly loyal' dog mauling a cat to death: [url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znUBNtHrJnY[/url] Here's a 'misunderstood' dog mauling a 4 year old boy: [url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOmW4BBdi1s[/url] Here's two 'friendly beyond compare and compassionate' dogs mauling a 6 year old girl: [url]http://www.wcpo.com/news/local-news/hamilton-county/cincinnati/westwood/pit-bulls-mauling-6-year-old-girl-caught-on-cruiser-cam-video[/url] And of course, the case I've posted in the OP. [QUOTE=Zezibesh;49271751]quickly googled some stats, 25-33 (???) pit bull fatalities this year. considering at least a million pit bull type dogs are put down in shelters every year, it's a very popular breed. you could probably extrapolate that into a rough estimate of how many dogs of this type there are in the US altogether somehow. the point is, it's a type of dog that's extremely popular. even if they make up the majority of dog attacks nowadays (p sure rottweilers held that statistic some time back) saying "a few" are sweet family dogs implies there's millions of baby killing assault dogs scattered throughout the country which is simply not true.[/QUOTE] Let's add to this. [b]Dog Attack Fatalities in the U.S.[/b] [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatal_dog_attacks_in_the_United_States#Fatalities_reported_in_2015[/url] Look at that list. American Kennel club recognises 157 dog breeds 2015 - 5 reported U.S. fatalities 2 by Pit Bulls: [quote]The man died after suffering bites to his head and left arm from his son's dog. He was taking down a Christmas tree when the dog attacked him. This man was killed while trying to resuscitate the dog's owner from a heart attack. The pit bull was not registered with the city, despite ordinance requiring all pit bulls in the city be registered. Both men were pronounced dead at a local hospital[/quote] 1 by Rottweiler, 1 by 'Pack of wild dogs', and 1 unknown. [quote]- 2014 – 32 reported U.S. fatalities – 20 (62%) were Pit Bulls – all other by 6 breeds - 2013 – 32 Reported – 26 (81%) were Pit Bulls – all other by 5 breeds - 2012 – 35 reported – 19 (54%) were Pit Bulls – all other by 5 breeds - 2011 – 33 reported – 20 (60%) were Pit bulls – all other by 4 breeds - A nine-year (1979–88) study of fatal dog attacks in the United States found that dogs characterized as pit bulls were implicated in 42 of the 101 attacks where the breed was known - A 1991 study found that 94% of attacks on children by pit bulls were unprovoked, compared to 43% for other breeds. - A 5-year (1989–94) review of fatal dog attacks in the U.S. determined that pit bulls and pit bull mixed breeds were implicated in 24 (29%) of the 84 deaths in which breed was recorded.[/quote] And let's not forget the legality of owning one. [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breed-specific_legislation#Worldwide[/url] [quote]- Australia: ban against importation - Brazil: Banned for importation, commercialization, breeding and unauthorized creation - Bermuda: Banned - Denmark: Banned - Ecuador: Banned - France: Restricted, non-pure breeds must be spayed/neutured - Germany: Restricted importation - ROI: Restricted - must be muzzled in public, can be destroyed if not controlled by owner - Malaysia: Pure PB Banned/some breeds allowed - Malta: Banned from importation - New Zealand: It is illegal to import them alive or as semen, ova, or embryos, must be chipped and spayed, must be muzzled in public - Norway: Banned - Poland: restricted (must display clear signs of ownership at home)[/quote] But by all means, do go on keep telling us how 'misunderstood' and 'lovable' puppies they are, while the rest of us are wary of anyone with a pitbull.
lmao I'm not even arguing for or against them and you seem to think that just because I'm not saying they're vicious murdering machines that my comment about using decent argumentation is relevant to any of that but hey fuck me for wanting a thread with better arguments from either side right?
[QUOTE=Billy-Bobfred;49271636]Yet another mauling by a pit bull Oh I'm sure a few of them are such [I]sweeties ans totes nice guies[/I] Useless fucking dog breed kills another kid[/QUOTE] what got in your bed and shat in it?
You're still not looking at the causation of these incidents. Dogs are animals. They're gonna do some fucked up shit sometimes because of circumstances that are due to their instincts or because of a mistranslation in human-to-dog communication. Especially dogs that are just feral??? They are gonna do even more fucked up shit because they're not being trained? Also some of those dogs may not even be Pitbull Terriers. They could be a breed that just looks similar. As I posted earlier, people misidentify "pitbulls" all the time. No one can really say that the breed itself can be absolved of ALL fault because they ARE predispositioned to respond more extremely to certain stimuli but more often than not it's an outside stimuli that they are responding to that has triggered or provoked an aggressive response. Dogs don't attack "just because".
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