• House GOP leaders add rape exception to abortion bill
    59 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Van-man;41081479]Kinda hard to have a intelligent debate with someone that isn't. I might as well have a conversation with my bathroom door than you.[/QUOTE] Very intelligent response. Why are you so afraid to PM me?
[QUOTE=Aurastorm;41082460]Very intelligent response. Why are you so afraid to PM me?[/QUOTE] Why are you so afraid of a public discussion?
[QUOTE=Hatley;41080105]Why is the subject of abortion a controversy in the first place? America's supposed to be the land of the free.[/QUOTE] The bigger question is, why is a rape exception so hard to pass.
[QUOTE=Van-man;41082477]Why are you so afraid of a public discussion?[/QUOTE] Are you starting a public discussion? I didn't realise [quote]Kinda hard to have a intelligent debate with someone that isn't. I might as well have a conversation with my bathroom door than you.[/quote] was a public discussion. Is it that important for you to perpetuate a facade of intelligence?
Why the fuck are worrying about abortion when we have over a 17 trillion dollar debt? Bless science... I need to move out of this country.
[QUOTE=Aurastorm;41082516]Are you starting a public discussion? I didn't realise was a public discussion. Is it that important for you to perpetuate a facade of intelligence?[/QUOTE] Cute :allears: Remember this? [QUOTE=Crazy Ivan;41080369]Please, describe your perfect non-democratic system in a brief thesis. You lose points every time you refer to a republic, Plato, anything Ayn Rand might have said, corporatism, citizenship-by-contribution, and Pre-Modern Senate. Begin![/QUOTE] You know he nailed it head-on, yet you're trying to pull out a guise of [I]"lol educated"[/I] to cover your massive flaws that were evident even at get-go
[QUOTE=Crazy Ivan;41080198]The idea extends that these free people are able to make laws and rules in their free society which make them happy and at peace. There is a lot of charged belief on both sides, which often relies on some form of fundamental misunderstanding of facts or a deeply seated emotional/faith based energy about abortion. So, some groups of people, in their happy autonomous little states, want to ban abortion. Some groups of people, in their happy autonomous little states, want to make it legal perhaps even superlegal. Because these happy little autonomous states often have a lot of pull on one another and usually have to work together, Federal laws are created. One such law was created because there was a very big fight between the two groups of happy people about where they can get abortions. After all, you wouldn't want to move across country to have a tooth pulled! But you wouldn't want Doctor Mengle performing vivisections down the street! Since one group looks at it like the former, and another group thinks of it like the latter, the Supreme Court had to walk in and make a Federal law. Of course, all that law did was make the [I]practice[/I] of Abortion legal, and only under certain circumstances. It made both groups sad, but also made both groups happy. Arguably though it made one group happier than the other group. Now we're talking about all sorts of medical laws and health care provided by the government and stuff and the two groups are all itchy about the Abortion thing. One group thinks it's a medical right, just like, well, that tooth pulling! The other thinks it's a frivolous evil practice that's pretty much just a luxury. Since the tax dollars of both happy little groups go into paying for whatever those government subsidized doctors do, they're both very interested in making sure their opinion is louder. So it's very free, people on both sides just want what we all want at the end of the day. The ability to look out the window and say "I built that, and I like it." It also happens that one happy little group is fucking retarded.[/QUOTE] You're right, pro-abortionists are pretty silly
[QUOTE=Van-man;41082557]Cute :allears: Remember this? You know he nailed it head-on, yet you're trying to pull out a guise of [I]"lol educated"[/I] to cover your massive flaws that were evident even at get-go[/QUOTE] i'm not here to discuss ' the perfect system ' because quite frankly, it doesn't exist. The perfect system is the one that can change autonomously in accordance to empirical data that benefits humanity as a whole. Happy now? And there wasn't even any Ayn Rand.
[QUOTE=Aurastorm;41083191]i'm not here to discuss ' the perfect system ' because quite frankly, it doesn't exist. The perfect system is the one that can change autonomously in accordance to empirical data that benefits humanity as a whole.[/QUOTE] There are issues of morality and principle that have nothing to do with statistics and facts. Abortion for example is one of them.
[QUOTE=Aurastorm;41083191]i'm not here to discuss ' the perfect system ' because quite frankly, it doesn't exist. The perfect system is the one that can change autonomously in accordance to empirical data that benefits humanity as a whole. Happy now? And there wasn't even any Ayn Rand.[/QUOTE] Good enough, [I]BUT NEXT TIME...[/I]
[QUOTE=Rangergxi;41083388]There are issues of morality and principle that have nothing to do with statistics and facts. Abortion for example is one of them.[/QUOTE] But there [i]is[/i] empirical data that can be applied in such situations. I.E, deaths from illegal abortions, overpopulation or negative social aspects that occur as a result of abortion being outlawed. Statistically, legalising abortion is the choice that would yield the highest amounts of happiness per capita. To what extent is unknown, but that's why researching it is important.
exception of rape... controversial to abortion? what the fuck? Allowing rape abortions, theres tons of pseudo-moral-shit spewing reasons to be against at, and one too many
[QUOTE=Aurastorm;41080245]democracy is dumb[/QUOTE] Churchill has put it in the best way possible. "Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time."
[QUOTE=Hatley;41080105]Why is the subject of abortion a controversy in the first place? America's supposed to be the land of the free.[/QUOTE] But babies in the womb don't have the freedom to stay alive if the mother chooses to have an abortion.
[QUOTE=Aurastorm;41080245]democracy is dumb[/QUOTE] It's only dumb when you're living in a country filled with uneducated evangelist halfwits that don't know what's good for them.
[QUOTE=cqbcat;41084931]But babies in the womb don't have the freedom to stay alive if the mother chooses to have an abortion.[/QUOTE] The babies are literally leeching off their mother. And if the mother doesn't want to give birth to them, well too bad for babby.
This just shows that they don't actually care about the baby's life, they just don't like women. If it was because of the baby, the method of impregnation wouldn't matter.
guys, this is about LATE term abortion, like 22 weeks. normally i'm pro-choice but late second trimester stuff is extremely gruesome and very hazy legally. at that point of gestation the organs are mostly developed and the baby is gaining its sense of touch and even hair. at this point the baby can actually FEEL pain for real, it can't at earlier stages so thats kind of okay but jesus guys. here's an illustration: [img]http://content.everydayhealth.com/wte3.0/gcms/yourbaby_week22.jpg[/img]
Doesn't this have the potential to cause women who are desperate for an abortion to call rape?
[QUOTE=Aurastorm;41080302]but that's a false dichotomy. autocracy is not the only alternative to democracy.[/QUOTE] Free-market representative democracy and dictatorships certainly aren't the only forms of government, but I can't think of one that isn't either autocratic or democratic, what else is there? Unless you count having no government.
[QUOTE=deltasquid;41080262]Democracy is a shit system, but it's a hell of a lot less shitty than being stuck under the whims of an autocrat who does as he pleases[/QUOTE] Unless he is a good autocrat.
[QUOTE=n0cturni;41085990]Doesn't this have the potential to cause women who are desperate for an abortion to call rape?[/QUOTE] Yeah those crazy women, lying all the time, clearly this means that this massively beneficial law shouldn't be passed because of the [i]chance[/i] a woman [i]might[/i] lie to get an abortion.
[QUOTE=hoodoo456;41088628]Yeah those crazy women, lying all the time, clearly this means that this massively beneficial law shouldn't be passed because of the [i]chance[/i] a woman [i]might[/i] lie to get an abortion.[/QUOTE] I'm not saying they're crazy nor am I saying they lie all the time. It's a serious question - I'm asking if it's something that could potentially happen due to how it's written. I personally find the fact that it's an exception to be stupid, is a aborting a life-threatening child birth illegal where aborting a rape child is legal?
[QUOTE=n0cturni;41088652]I'm not saying they're crazy nor am I saying they lie all the time. It's a serious question - I'm asking if it's something that could potentially happen.[/QUOTE] It is, but that's absolutely no reason to not pass a law like this. We don't legalize rape on the chance a woman lied about it, we don't illegalize abortions on the chance a woman lied she got raped to get an abortion.
[QUOTE=hoodoo456;41088674]It is, but that's absolutely no reason to not pass a law like this. We don't legalize rape on the chance a woman lied about it, we don't illegalize abortions on the chance a woman lied she got raped to get an abortion.[/QUOTE] Please tell me where I said they shouldn't pass this law or where rape should be legalized. I don't even know what point you're trying to argue with me.
[QUOTE=n0cturni;41088689]Please tell me where I said they shouldn't pass this law or where rape should be legalized. I don't even know what point you're trying to argue with me.[/QUOTE] I never intended to imply that you said rape should be legalized. Sorry, I think I've entirely misunderstood your post. I thought you were arguing against this law being passed because women might lie to get abortions, and you just said that isn't the case. Sorry.
[QUOTE=n0cturni;41085990]Doesn't this have the potential to cause women who are desperate for an abortion to call rape?[/QUOTE] Which is why, actually pretty reasonably, the moderates in the GOP called for the exception to be re-added with the stipulation that it must be a reported crime so people can't just claim rape to get by it. Of course that places a burden on the mother but it's not exactly a winning situation in the first place and the idea is to make people lose the least, to which I think this is a reasonable idea
[QUOTE=Van-man;41085603][B]The babies are literally leeching off their mother.[/B] And if the mother doesn't want to give birth to them, well too bad for babby.[/QUOTE] You say that like it's a bad think. It's a natural biological process. It's how our species produces new members. Why should we let the weakest and most incapable human beings just be destroyed? That's just cold murder. People have a right to life.
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