Just when Justin Bieber thinks he out of trouble: Justin Bieber post photo of himself at Japanese WW
156 replies, posted
[QUOTE=RosettaStoned;44623719]tbh It looks like he's being respectful. It would grind my gears if he was standing there doing something like this -
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/IqucYcI.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
when going to a foreign country, one should dress like a normal human being.
I wasn't talking about his manners, but his general appearance.
he's going to a memorial dressed in a shitty manner too one could argue. That doesn't seem that respectful to me if he can't dress like an actual person.
[QUOTE=J!NX;44623818]when going to a foreign country, one should dress like a normal human being.
I wasn't talking about his manners, but his general appearance.[/QUOTE]
People have different definitions of normal you know.
[QUOTE=RustledJimmys;44623862]People have different definitions of normal you know.[/QUOTE]
I'd pull out an example but he's already dressed in a bad one
besides that, he's wearing a baseball cap and a hoodie to a memorial/shrine, that just doesn't seem right to me. Unless he was just passing by and saw it or something.
[QUOTE=J!NX;44623885] Unless he was just passing by and saw it or something.[/QUOTE]
Thats exactly what supposedly happened.
[QUOTE=Allah;44623571]From Wikipedia:
"(Former bekkaku-kanpeisha)
Dedicated to Those who lost their lives while serving Japan"
All soldiers deserve respect. Bieber didn't do anything wrong, he just paid his respect to the dead soldiers.[/QUOTE]
By all soldiers I hope you don't mean the ones who also committed horrendous war crimes.
[QUOTE=J!NX;44623885]Unless he was just passing by and saw it or something.[/QUOTE]
[quote]"While in Japan I asked my driver to pull over for which I saw a beautiful shrine," he wrote on Instagram. [/quote]
bad reading x1
[QUOTE=Complifused;44623921]By all soldiers I hope you don't mean the ones who also committed horrendous war crimes.[/QUOTE]
Yeah. I've meant all soldiers as in all nations' soldiers deserve respect.
I don't see why soldiers who've committed war crimes are deserving of respect.
The Japanese shrine would be like if Kaiser Wilhelm set up a shrine for soldiers who died in the service of Germany, and half of the SS got buried there.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;44624041]I don't see why soldiers who've committed war crimes are deserving of respect.
The Japanese shrine would be like if Kaiser Wilhelm set up a shrine for soldiers who died in the service of Germany, and half of the SS got buried there.[/QUOTE]
Justin Bieber is doing it out of not understanding what was going on, made more apparent by above posts
but soldiers are still human beings too, even the Nazi's had its fair share of good people, and the Japanese are no nazi's
[URL="http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1071838/"]If you want to really understand what I'm talking about [/URL] go find this on netflix and watch it. It's an amazing documentary of a Vietnam photographer. Sure they are from Americans perspective horrible people but they're more human than people seem to care to understand.
The only reason this is offensive and news worthy is because Justin Bieber is in it
The thing that really gets me about all of this is that [i]he's actually apologizing.[/i]
I didn't even think that was possible.
[QUOTE=J!NX;44624081]Justin Bieber is doing it out of not understanding what was going on, made more apparent by above posts
but soldiers are still human beings too, even the Nazi's had its fair share of good people, and the Japanese are no nazi's[/QUOTE]
The Nazis weren't good people though. We shouldn't be enshrining those guilty of war crimes.
The Japanese military in the Second World War were responsible for some of the most barbaric and atrocious violations of human rights in history.
In fact quite a few Japanese men escaped responsibility. The guy who headed unit 731 escaped being prosecuted and died at an old age many years after the war.
[QUOTE=Allah;44623974]Yeah. I've meant all soldiers as in all nations' soldiers deserve respect.[/QUOTE]
So you respect Shiro Ishii and his crew, who was pretty much a mini Mengele?
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;44624136]The Nazis weren't good people though. We shouldn't be enshrining those guilty of war crimes.
The Japanese military in the Second World War were responsible for some of the most barbaric and atrocious violations of human rights in history.[/QUOTE]
The nazi's were the most terrible people you can get and have done the worst things man has ever seen, but you're not getting the point, they are STILL human beings
I'm not saying they're good people but they still had people who didn't wish to be nazi's but were forced, are those people bad because of that?
of course, actually going and paying respects to then and the japanese soldiers would be crazy but it's not unthinkable, just ignorant
It would be the same as if he went to a memorial for WW2 German soldiers
Except worse because the Japanese probably directly killed more civilians than the Nazis did
The Chinese civilian death toll rivals the holocaust
[QUOTE=J!NX;44624081]Justin Bieber is doing it out of not understanding what was going on, made more apparent by above posts
but soldiers are still human beings too, even the Nazi's had its fair share of good people, and the Japanese are no nazi's
[URL="http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1071838/"]If you want to really understand what I'm talking about [/URL] go find this on netflix and watch it. It's an amazing documentary of a Vietnam photographer. Sure they are from Americans perspective horrible people but they're more human than people seem to care to understand.[/QUOTE]
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_of_Nanking[/url]
that's why the Chinese don't like the Japanese, and that's why this shrine is controversial. Wide spread rape and baby killing and mass murder
[QUOTE=strayebyrd;44624173][url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_of_Nanking[/url]
that's why the Chinese don't like the Japanese, and that's why this shrine is controversial. Wide spread rape and baby killing and mass murder[/QUOTE]
Also this:
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_731[/url]
[QUOTE=strayebyrd;44624173][url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_of_Nanking[/url]
that's why the Chinese don't like the Japanese, and that's why this shrine is controversial. Wide spread rape and baby killing and mass murder[/QUOTE]
and this is why Justin Biebers paying respect is ignorant and he's stupid
but I mean, I'm just saying, you know, they were still human beings.
[QUOTE=J!NX;44624155]The nazi's were the most terrible people you can get and have done the worst things man has ever seen, but you're not getting the point, they are STILL human beings
I'm not saying they're good people but they still had people who didn't wish to be nazi's but were forced, are those people bad because of that?[/QUOTE]
The Nuremberg defence hasn't worked since 1946.
Even then, why should commanding officers be exempt? What about soldiers who raped and murdered women? Are they to be buried in a war shrine?
[QUOTE=Venezuelan;44624163]It would be the same as if he went to a memorial for WW2 German soldiers
Except worse because the Japanese probably directly killed more civilians than the Nazis did[/QUOTE]
German soldier =/= Nazi.
A lot of those guys were conscripts who simply did what they were asked to do, and got killed for their trouble.
[QUOTE=Psychokitten;44624200]German soldier =/= Nazi.
A lot of those guys were conscripts who simply did what they were asked to do, and got killed for their trouble.[/QUOTE]
That's why I specifically avoided using the word Nazi until I was talking about the people in charge
But I don't think being a henchman is much better tbh
[QUOTE=J!NX;44624190]and this is why Justin Biebers paying respect is ignorant and he's stupid
but I mean, I'm just saying, you know, they were still human beings.[/QUOTE]
I'm confused at what your argument is
I'm not saying they aren't human beings. I'm saying they're human beings who en masse engaged in rape and torture and murder. They forced fathers to have sex with daughters, they impaled babies on bayonets. It goes a bit further than them just being on the wrong team.
I don't like the kid as much as the next guy, but it's clear he didn't do this to be offensive on purpose. He was ignorant to its status. He thought he was being respectful, and picked the wrong fucking shrine. That's it.
[QUOTE=Glitchbunny;44624220]I don't like the kid as much as the next guy, but it's clear he didn't do this to be offensive on purpose. He was ignorant to its status. He thought he was being respectful, and picked the wrong fucking shrine. That's it.[/QUOTE]
this I agree with. Hanlon's razor. A lot of people are unaware of the atrocities Japan committed in WW2, because Japan has done such a good job of sweeping it under the rug
[QUOTE=J!NX;44623818]when going to a foreign country, one should dress like a normal human being.
I wasn't talking about his manners, but his general appearance.
he's going to a memorial dressed in a shitty manner too one could argue. That doesn't seem that respectful to me if he can't dress like an actual person.[/QUOTE]
Well he said they stopped there when he saw it on the way somewhere. And besides it isn't up to you to judge fashion nor decide what an "actual person" is. In fact he probably didn't look that out of place there, after all he went to Japan.
Don't get me wrong, I don't like Bieber, his music or his sense of fashion but in this case, no one has the privilege of judging him considering he seems to have accidentally stumbled upon the place and wasn't even aware it was a memorial of some sort, just a beautiful temple. Please tell me how you carry a suit around with you just in case you run into some temple just to look respectable.
So no, one couldn't argue anything here, he was just an easy target.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;44624194]The Nuremberg defence hasn't worked since 1946.
Even then, why should commanding officers be exempt? What about soldiers who raped and murdered women? Are they to be buried in a war shrine?[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=strayebyrd;44624217]I'm confused at what your argument is
I'm not saying they aren't human beings. I'm saying they're human beings who en masse engaged in rape and torture and murder. They forced fathers to have sex with daughters, they impaled babies on bayonets. It goes a bit further than them just being on the wrong team.[/QUOTE]
There are a few who still chose not to rape and murder, even a few who wished not to kill, but help jews / etc
the shrine should exist for the families of the soldiers and only for the families. Paying respects to same random nazi's/japs who killed and raped the shit out of women is fucking terrible
but the families who disagree with what their great grandfathers did in ww2 can still pay respects to their memory as a human being, it's not unforgivable, hell, you could even pay respect to ONLY your family member and your family member could have just been one of those who didn't wish to hurt anyone but was in the wrong place at the wrong time. But if you're someone like Justin Bieber who is "Just passing by" you should fuck off.
Of course he picked the wrong shrine.
The real question is why the Japanese have over a thousand war criminals there. These aren't simply men who happened to be on the wrong side, but commanding officers who deliberately went out of their way to commit atrocities, many of them not being punished in the process or escaping justice.
[QUOTE=J!NX;44624271]There are a few who still chose not to rape and murder, even a few who wished not to kill, but help jews / etc
the shrine should exist for the families of the soldiers and only for the families. Paying respects to same random nazi's/japs who killed and raped the shit out of women is fucking terrible
but the families who disagree with what their great grandfathers did in ww2 can still pay respects to their memory as a human being, it's not unforgivable, hell, you could even pay respect to ONLY your family member and your family member could have just been one of those who didn't wish to hurt anyone but was in the wrong place at the wrong time. But if you're someone like Justin Bieber who is "Just passing by" you should fuck off.[/QUOTE]
The war shrine specifically holds individuals there who died in the service of Japan. Putting known war criminals there implicitly suggests the Japanese government does not recognize or care about their actions in wartime, and that these war crimes did not harm the reputations of these men.
[QUOTE=draugur;44623515]It's a shrine dedicated to war crimes. It'd be like praying at Hitler's grave or something.[/QUOTE]
I dunno the shrine feels like it's more dedicated to the innocent people forced into fighting in a war rather than their actions.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;44624277]Of course he picked the wrong shrine.
The real question is why the Japanese have over a thousand war criminals there. These aren't simply men who happened to be on the wrong side, but commanding officers who deliberately went out of their way to commit atrocities, many of them not being punished in the process or escaping justice.[/QUOTE]
because they are terrible human beings but those soldiers (war criminals) still have families that are alive today and exist because of those people.
what are they going to do? Burn the bodies and dump them into a lake "Because they were terrible people"?
[QUOTE=J!NX;44624190]and this is why Justin Biebers paying respect is ignorant and he's stupid
but I mean, I'm just saying, you know, they were still human beings.[/QUOTE]
How is it ignorant and stupid if he didn't know the significance.
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