• Just when Justin Bieber thinks he out of trouble: Justin Bieber post photo of himself at Japanese WW
    156 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Kyle902;44626924]Its called a comparison. Also you're the who spouted so its your job to back up this claim.[/QUOTE] Okay, yeah, it was too general for me to say that, but if a significant portion of something is one thing, it's sure as hell fair to generalise. And there's nowhere that a comparison is necessary. I was explaining part of the problem with this shrine. You're choosing to indulge in your ignorance. How could you even compare the US military to the Japanese military? Atrocities committed by militaries are separate from the others. Why would you compare the US military's atrocities to those of Japan's? Would you compare Germany's to Japan's? I surely hope not because the war crimes committed by those two during WWII are both huge and completely different in their own rights. There is no room for comparing here.
[QUOTE=Kyle902;44626950]That's a pretty bad comparison. Theres a difference between a memorial dedicated to all members of ones armed services and a memorial specific to a few war criminals.[/QUOTE] That's not the point. The point is that would people be fine if say a war memorial dedicated to those who served Germany was set up by the Kaiser, had later the names of notorious war criminals such as Hitler, Himmler, Goebbels, etc been added to it? Or say those in the SS?
[QUOTE=Kyle902;44626924] [editline]23rd April 2014[/editline] I'm refuting his statement of[/QUOTE] Her*
[QUOTE=Phi7788;44626959]We aren't talking about a few war criminals.[/quote] Yet again ignoring the point that I was refuting a specific statement someone made saying the entirety of the Japanese armed forces participated in war crimes. [quote] The Imperial Japanese Army and Japan's war crimes were systemic.[/quote] Still doesn't mean the majority of the Japanese army participated in war crimes or indeed that ALL of them participated in war crimes since the Meiji Restoration. (Including post WWII) [quote] Two Japanese officers had a competition on who could be the first to kill 100 people with a sword and Japanese newspapers reported it like a sporting event. [/quote] Any quotes to back up this anecdote? [quote] The Japanese Army was sick and twisted in every way.[/QUOTE] I didn't know the entire Japanese military from the Meiji Restoration to present and literally anyone who "died protecting Japan" where sick and twisted in every way. Thanks for that information
[QUOTE=Kyle902;44626950]That's a pretty bad comparison.[/QUOTE] I'm laughing so hard; how is that comparison "pretty bad" and yours isn't??? I'm so confused and worried as to how someone could be this hard-headed. You don't know what you're talking about, so you need to just step down.
[QUOTE=witchgirls;44627012]I'm laughing so hard; how is that comparison "pretty bad" and yours isn't??? I'm so confused and worried as to how someone could be this hard-headed. You don't know what you're talking about, so you need to just step down.[/QUOTE] I'm not the one making unsubstantiated claims like [quote]It's fair to say everyone in the Japanese military were murders, so yes, that graveyard sure as hell is bad.[/quote] and you still have yet to refute anything I've said in a meaningful manner.
[QUOTE=Kyle902;44627037]I'm not the one making unsubstantiated claims like and you still have yet to refute anything I've said in a meaningful manner.[/QUOTE] Holy shit there's no point because even the most simple minded person could see your points are 100% moot.
[QUOTE=J!NX;44624081] but soldiers are still human beings too, even the Nazi's had its fair share of good people, and the Japanese are no nazi's[/QUOTE] Japanese Fascism was just as bad?
[QUOTE=witchgirls;44627055]I have no coherent argument to make so I'll resort to ad hominem.[/QUOTE] I think this is what you meant to say right?
[QUOTE=Kyle902;44627003]Any quotes to back up this anecdote?[/QUOTE] [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contest_to_kill_100_people_using_a_sword[/url]
[QUOTE=Kyle902;44627003]Yet again ignoring the point that I was refuting a specific statement someone made saying the entirety of the Japanese armed forces participated in war crimes. Still doesn't mean the majority of the Japanese army participated in war crimes or indeed that ALL of them participated in war crimes since the Meiji Restoration. (Including post WWII) Any quotes to back up this anecdote? I didn't know the entire Japanese military from the Meiji Restoration to present and literally anyone who "died protecting Japan" where sick and twisted in every way. Thanks for that information[/QUOTE] The problem here is that the Japanese have specifically made a point adding pretty much every war criminal from WW2 there. There would be no problem had they not specifically made a point of adding these people. You're defending something worse than the Nazis. Japanese war crimes were supported by the government 100%. They even used tons of chemical weapons on Chinese cities just to kill everyone quickly. [QUOTE=Kyle902;44627083]Okay then. But again this doesn't take away from the fact that the shrine is dedicated to all of Japans military, good and bad, since the Meiji restoration.[/QUOTE] Germany has monuments dedicated to their soldiers from WW2 but they didn't plaster Hitler's face on there as well. The Japanese specifically added a ton of war criminals to the shrine.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;44627069][url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contest_to_kill_100_people_using_a_sword[/url][/QUOTE] Okay then. But again this doesn't take away from the fact that the shrine is dedicated to all of Japans military, good and bad, since the Meiji restoration. [editline]23rd April 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=galenmarek;44627079]The problem here is that the Japanese have specifically made a point adding pretty much every war criminal from WW2 there. There would be no problem had they not specifically made a point of adding these people. also [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contest_To_Cut_Down_100_People[/url][/QUOTE] And I agree that it is a problem. It however should not detract from the other people memorialized in the shrine who didn't perpetrate these crimes.
What makes things worse is that Japan refuses to acknowledge the fucking brutal war crimes that they committed, to the point of even suppressing them. Japanese kids nowadays don't know about The Rape of Nanking. The Japanese see WW2 as a point of pride but they should see it as a point of national shame like Germany does. If Germany did anything right about WW2 it was making sure to recognize their crimes, honor the victims, and make sure they never forgot.
[QUOTE=galenmarek;44627079]The problem here is that the Japanese have specifically made a point adding pretty much every war criminal from WW2 there. There would be no problem had they not specifically made a point of adding these people. You're defending something worse than the Nazis. Japanese war crimes were supported by the government 100%. They even used tons of chemical weapons on Chinese cities just to kill everyone quickly.[/QUOTE] I'm afraid this guy just won't get it. This is what we've been trying to convey and he won't refute anything or even acknowledge the real arguments. He just goes in and adds bad comparisons and acts "holier-than-thou." Maybe it's all a ruse so that he can attack the US military in a place where people'll actually read it because honestly his only points have been opinions about the US military.
*snip* redundant
[QUOTE=J!NX;44623623][t]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bl5Vx3fCEAArIdV.jpg:large[/t] he looks like such a wannabe in this image :U[/QUOTE] Is that a hoodie or a dress
[QUOTE=Kyle902;44627083]Okay then. But again this doesn't take away from the fact that the shrine is dedicated to all of Japans military, good and bad, since the Meiji restoration. [editline]23rd April 2014[/editline] And I agree that it is a problem. It however should not detract from the other people memorialized in the shrine who didn't perpetrate these crimes.[/QUOTE] Oh, really? [url]http://www.china.org.cn/english/features/135371.htm[/url]
[QUOTE=Kyle902;44627083]Okay then. But again this doesn't take away from the fact that the shrine is dedicated to all of Japans military, good and bad, since the Meiji restoration. [editline]23rd April 2014[/editline] And I agree that it is a problem. It however should not detract from the other people memorialized in the shrine who didn't perpetrate these crimes.[/QUOTE] The problem is the crimes committed were too numerous and too systemic/condoned that honoring the military is in bad taste since the military was fucking insane at the time. Japan is too nationalist to accept the crimes they committed. Japan's politicians today deny and downplay the war crimes. They honor war criminals.
[QUOTE=Kyle902;44627083]Okay then. But again this doesn't take away from the fact that the shrine is dedicated to all of Japans military, good and bad, since the Meiji restoration. [editline]23rd April 2014[/editline] And I agree that it is a problem. It however should not detract from the other people memorialized in the shrine who didn't perpetrate these crimes.[/QUOTE] Not helping when they added pretty much every war criminal they could think of. [url]http://www.china.org.cn/english/features/135371.htm[/url]
[QUOTE=Kyle902;44627083]Okay then. But again this doesn't take away from the fact that the shrine is dedicated to all of Japans military, good and bad, since the Meiji restoration. [editline]23rd April 2014[/editline] And I agree that it is a problem. It however should not detract from the other people memorialized in the shrine who didn't perpetrate these crimes.[/QUOTE] Then remove those names from the shrine and apologize, and Japan shall be forgiven.
[QUOTE=Phi7788;44627107]What makes things worse is that Japan refuses to acknowledge the fucking brutal war crimes that they committed, to the point of even suppressing them. Japanese kids nowadays don't know about The Rape of Nanking. The Japanese see WW2 as a point of pride but they should see it as a point of national shame like Germany does. If Germany did anything right about WW2 it was making sure to recognize their crimes, honor the victims, and make sure they never forgot.[/QUOTE] Every country belittles and suppresses the horrible things it did in the past. Most kids in the US don't know that we interned most of the Japanese Americans in WWII and sold their lands. Or that we purposely infected an entire population of African-Americans with syphilis and refused them treatment. Or that we tested LSD on prisoners. etc. While I'm not saying that the behavior is correct I believe that its rather hypocritical to make a point of it when pretty much every country does the same exact thing. [editline]23rd April 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=galenmarek;44627124]Oh, really? [url]http://www.china.org.cn/english/features/135371.htm[/url][/QUOTE] I dont really see how that refutes what I said at all? Its literally just a list of war criminals with names on the shrine. I said that the names shouldn't detract from the rest of the people on the shrine... [editline]23rd April 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Sobotnik;44627146]Then remove those names from the shrine and apologize, and Japan shall be forgiven.[/QUOTE] And I never said that they shouldnt do that. I am saying that the shrine is a memorial to the people who died fighting for Japan and should be treated as such.
Are you seriously conflating Japanese internment, Tuskeegee and MK Ultra with literally raping 20,000 women and killing and mutilating 300,000 people with bayonets and swords
[QUOTE=Kyle902;44627147]Every country belittles and suppresses the horrible things it did in the past. Most kids in the US don't know that we interned most of the Japanese Americans in WWII and sold their lands. Or that we purposely infected an entire population of African-Americans with syphilis and refused them treatment. Or that we tested LSD on prisoners. etc. While I'm not saying that the behavior is correct I believe that its rather hypocritical to make a point of it when pretty much every country does the same exact thing.[/QUOTE] America did not use a ton of chemical weapons to kill millions and pursue a policy of literally killing people in every way imaginable for their research. Most kids in the US DO know that Japanese were interned seeing how it's mandatory education for every school in America. The Japanese however continue to gloss over their many war crimes committed during the time of the Imperial Japan. The names of war criminals added to the shrine detracts from what it stands for by a great deal. As I said before, Germany does not add the likes of Hitler and friends to their monuments for a good reason. They were the definition of human scum and having their names added to something that's suppossed to honor the lives of a ton of people who fought for japan completely destroys any point of it being there. This could have been solved by simply removing their names.
[QUOTE=galenmarek;44627182]America did not use a ton of chemical weapons to kill millions and pursue a policy of literally killing people in every way imaginable for their research. Most kids in the US DO know that Japanese were interned seeing how it's mandatory education for every school in America. The Japanese however continue to gloss over their many war crimes committed during the time of the Imperial Japan.[/QUOTE] When did japan use chemical weapons to kill millions of people? [editline]23rd April 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Phi7788;44627181]Are you seriously conflating Japanese internment, Tuskeegee and MK Ultra with literally raping 20,000 women and killing and mutilating 300,000 people with bayonets and swords[/QUOTE] No I wasn't equating them. I was saying that suppressing the skeletons in a nations closet is something EVERY country does.
[QUOTE=Kyle902;44627147]Every country belittles and suppresses the horrible things it did in the past. Most kids in the US don't know that we interned most of the Japanese Americans in WWII and sold their lands. Or that we purposely infected an entire population of African-Americans with syphilis and refused them treatment. Or that we tested LSD on prisoners. etc. While I'm not saying that the behavior is correct I believe that its rather hypocritical to make a point of it when pretty much every country does the same exact thing.[/quote] Most kids DO know about the Japanese internment camp. I know for a fact in my state, it's a requirement for history teachers to teach it. I've learned about it since elementary school. Are you talking about this? [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuskegee_syphilis_experiment[/url] This article states that those who had syphilis in this experiment already had contracted it PRIOR to the experiment. The problem with this experiment was that those with syphilis were not treated (though that was the variable being tested), and even after penicillin had become the norm for treatment, doctors didn't treat those with it. Where's the source for your last "point?" And why do you keep bringing the US into this argument? You're being incredibly dense.
Kyle here, educate yourself [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_war_crimes[/url] bit of a long read
[QUOTE=witchgirls;44627209]Most kids DO know about the Japanese internment camp. I know for a fact in my state, it's a requirement for history teachers to teach it. I've learned about it since elementary school. Are you talking about this? [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuskegee_syphilis_experiment[/url] This article states that those who had syphilis in this experiment already had contracted it PRIOR to the experiment. The problem with this experiment was that those with syphilis were not treated (though that was the variable being tested), and even after penicillin had become the norm for treatment, doctors didn't treat those with it. Where's the source for your last "point?" And why do you keep bringing the US into this argument? You're being incredibly dense.[/QUOTE] [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mk_ultra[/url] And I'm not specifically bringing up the US, I was using it as an example to show that every country tends to gloss over the bad things its government/military has done. [editline]23rd April 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Phi7788;44627219]Kyle here, educate yourself [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_war_crimes[/url] bit of a long read[/QUOTE] Please show me exactly where I said japan never committed war crimes. You people seem to be missing my point entirely. I am saying that the shrine is a memorial to japans MILITARY. Not Japans WAR CRIMES. Thus is should be held in the same regard as every war memorial in every country.
[QUOTE=Kyle902;44627190]When did japan use chemical weapons to kill millions of people? [editline]23rd April 2014[/editline] No I wasn't equating them. I was saying that suppressing the skeletons in a nations closet is something EVERY country does.[/QUOTE] on 375 occasions... [img]http://pietistschoolman.files.wordpress.com/2013/08/japanese-gas-attack-1941.jpg[/img] [IMG]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/39/Japanese_Special_Naval_Landing_Forces_in_Battle_of_Shanghai_1937.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/ae/Changde_battle_2.jpg/800px-Changde_battle_2.jpg[/IMG] Conducted with the offical approval of Emporer Hirohito himself no less. The Japanese were savage monsters during the war and pursued a horrid policy of complete extermination in many places. Aren't you Japanese American as well? I'd assume you of all people would be well versed in this sort of stuff.
[QUOTE=Kyle902;44627190]When did japan use chemical weapons to kill millions of people? [/QUOTE] They literally used them in battle and against cities.
[QUOTE=Kyle902;44627231][url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mk_ultra[/url] And I'm not specifically bringing up the US, I was using it as an example to show that every country tends to gloss over the bad things its government/military has done.[/QUOTE] Holy shit you're truly a lost cause. You keep specifically bringing up the US, so don't try to lie about that. You seriously cannot compare what you've been trying to compare to the war crimes committed by the Japanese. You cannot compare the US's "glossing over" of these "bad things" to Japan's complete glorification of their military history. You don't understand this. Stop arguing it. You don't know about this. You won't attempt to learn about any of this. Just stop, please.
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