Pope Francis: It's 'terrible' children taught they can choose gender
123 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Turnips5;50818755]current best practice for trans kids is counselling, let them go through a tiny bit of puberty, see if they are okay with or hate the changes, then if they hate the changes, let them go on puberty blockers (GnRH agonists, which have been used for decades in the treatment of precocious puberty, and entirely reversible) until they're ready to make a decision, then go forward with hormone therapy (again, at any point, they can stop without consequence.) it's a sensible treatment plan.
and yet you hear about kids "getting sex changes" as if anyone has ever advocated performing sexual reassignment surgery on a minor. well, they used to do it on intersex infants without their consent, which was a fucking insane idea, but society never got up in arms about that[/QUOTE]
Intersex infants are often still operated on in various parts of the world. I can't imagine what it would be like to have my genitals intentionally fucked up to conform to some typical ideal of male or female. Before someone says "oh but transsexual people do that too!!" 1. they do it with their consent (which they can give, because they're not minors by the point they can get SRS) 2. SRS/gender affirmation surgery is radically different from the techniques used for intersex "corrective" surgery; the genitals, being undeveloped, will still grow as hormone balance dictates later in life, needing things like further surgery or painful vaginal wall stretching - done [i]to kids[/i].
Also I don't understand the hate towards nonbinary people that I've read in this thread so far? The word used was "genderfluid" but then the poster went on to say people are only male or female, which is, fact of the matter, untrue. All current research supports the possibility of hybrid brainsex, which would lead to nonbinary gender identity. But like, I really shouldn't need to use reasoning when there are already so many nonbinary people that anyone could find dozens of profiles online if they want to - the proof is already there, guys.
At least Skate is wise enough to not hang around this time.
Somehow, I feel like he's trying to say that we shouldn't push children to be trans at a young age because of stupid things, like what movies they watch, what colors they like, etc.
I think he's advocating concern over parents who overthink small details that children overlook, because they're children.
He's urging caution against making choices for children about their child's gender.
But that's just my interpretation.
pope says something nice: "what an amazing person and good advocate best pope ever!!!"
pope says something horrific and completely unacceptable by modern standards: "well nobody's perfect"
[QUOTE=Judas;50818868]pope says something nice: "what an amazing person and good advocate best pope ever!!!"
pope says something horrific and completely unacceptable by modern standards: "well nobody's perfect"[/QUOTE]
Unfortunately that's the way it is with the Church. Obviously I think it's a terrible thing to say but it's not unexpected. He's certainly more liberal I think than past Popes so it gives me hope there might finally be progress, but who knows.
On the plus most Catholics only look on him as a figurehead and don't follow his words 100% to the letter, at-least in Ireland. Thank the heavens for the Late Late Show introducing sex to Ireland. :V
Yeah, its kinda really fucked up.
[QUOTE=Aztec;50818586]I dunno I've been to gender counseling for years and I go through periods of multiple months where I feel intense crippling gender dysphoria that eventually goes away and I feel "non-trans" again. Which is why I've never bothered transitioning and why I pretty much can't treat my issues beyond counseling.
Things aren't just bullshit because you haven't experienced them.[/QUOTE]
That doesn't sound healthy. Do you do anything for those periods beyond going to see a counselor? I myself would recommend you try presenting yourself how you feel. You may be right, and it may just be something you swing between, but that might also [I]not[/I] be the case. Hell, even if you just dress how you're feeling, that might help, or even just help you reach a more permanent decision. There are steps you can take that aren't permanent body/life-altering transitions.
[QUOTE=Judas;50818868]pope says something nice: "what an amazing person and good advocate best pope ever!!!"
pope says something horrific and completely unacceptable by modern standards: "well nobody's perfect"[/QUOTE]
I don't know, I'd rather have a Pope like Francis, over a Pope like all the other ones.
And besides, it's part of his Religion, you can't really do much about it Religion wise.
[QUOTE=Judas;50818868]pope says something nice: "what an amazing person and good advocate best pope ever!!!"
pope says something horrific and completely unacceptable by modern standards: "well nobody's perfect"[/QUOTE]
And the issue with this is..?
[QUOTE=Canuhearme?;50818553]He's right though.
The whole concept of genderfluid is bullshit; you're either male or female, but sometimes during development your mind doesn't exactly get the memo with your body.
Implying gender is a choice only gives ammunition to the people that think you can "fix" transgenderism.[/QUOTE]
Sadly, this is just an issue of semantics. We know that's true, but we also know that that's not what he means, rather, he's decrying that we're teaching children that it's possible/acceptable for people to transition genders.
For those who have a different opinion, you guys sure ar a load of shit towards it.
I wouldn't want my children growing up knowing that it's selectable, I want them growing up knowing it's possible.
[QUOTE=Arctic-Zone;50818842]Also I don't understand the hate towards nonbinary people that I've read in this thread so far? The word used was "genderfluid" but then the poster went on to say people are only male or female, which is, fact of the matter, untrue. All current research supports the possibility of hybrid brainsex, which would lead to nonbinary gender identity. But like, I really shouldn't need to use reasoning when there are already so many nonbinary people that anyone could find dozens of profiles online if they want to - the proof is already there, guys.
At least Skate is wise enough to not hang around this time.[/QUOTE]
could you post some studies that support the existence of nonbinary genders being a biological phenomenon and not a cultural one?
i would caution against using people's self describing profiles as indicators of how prevalent hybrid brainsexes are. there are far more factors in how someone may feel in that field than biological reasons. psychologically, a man may prefer the traditional roles, iconography, and aesthetics associated with women but not experience any of the biological dysphoria. they may identify more with the sociological idea of a woman but feel perfectly comfortable in their skin. or, perhaps they are like me, where they find themselves associating with others who are wrestling with their gender identity and start finding themselves questioning their own when they hadn't before due to that association. it is a complicated subject and we have only barely scratched the surface of it. it would be prudent to allow people to do what makes them comfortable without making statements of absolutes in either direction.
[QUOTE=Judas;50818868]pope says something nice: "what an amazing person and good advocate best pope ever!!!"
pope says something horrific and completely unacceptable by modern standards: "well nobody's perfect"[/QUOTE]
Yeah it's completely unacceptable by modern standards and I get what you're saying, but you can't discredit everything the man has done solely for this comment
I don't think even most middle-aged people are accepting of transpeople, so I'm not particularly surprised that an elderly man isn't.
It's not to excuse transphobia but I doubt many of us here have or had eldelery parents, or grandparents, who were okay with the idea of transgender people. He's still very progressive in other areas, or at least for the Catholic Church.
Plus, he's not going hardline and saying all transpeople are going to burn in Hell or anything.
[QUOTE=Judas;50818868]pope says something nice: "what an amazing person and good advocate best pope ever!!!"
pope says something horrific and completely unacceptable by modern standards: "well nobody's perfect"[/QUOTE]
I think half of it is people genuinely being ignorant about transgender/genderfluid/gender concepts as a whole (I know I am) and people willing to compromise. If Pope Francis was generally just a shitty person people would just say "No surprise there, dudes a dick" and move on.
[QUOTE=Judas;50818868]pope says something nice: "what an amazing person and good advocate best pope ever!!!"
pope says something horrific and completely unacceptable by modern standards: "well nobody's perfect"[/QUOTE]
are we supposed to bitch about him for not being an utterly perfect person?
where are the dishonest posters who usually claim that the "popes word is the infallible word of god" whenever what he says aligns with their leftist beliefs?
[highlight](User was banned for this post ("Why reply" - Craptasket))[/highlight]
[QUOTE=mr kjerr;50819447]where are the dishonest posters who usually claim that the "popes word is the infallible word of god" whenever what he says aligns with their leftist beliefs?[/QUOTE]
I don't think I've ever heard somebody say that on this website..
[QUOTE=mr kjerr;50819447]where are the dishonest posters who usually claim that the "popes word is the infallible word of god" whenever what he says aligns with their leftist beliefs?[/QUOTE]
nice of you to come and ejaculate out this post without any examples to back up your hate for the left
I mean, the whole concept of transition goes against the idea of "God's perfect, everything he does is working as intended", because if one is to disagree with that most basic of dogma, that's a huge crack in primary concept of the religion. So, even if he knows that he's wrong, th best thing he can do is hold an idiotic opinion, so he doesn't actually have to speak the truth, least the dogma of all positive god gets fucked up even further.
[editline]3rd August 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=mr kjerr;50819447]where are the dishonest posters who usually claim that the "popes word is the infallible word of god" whenever what he says aligns with their leftist beliefs?[/QUOTE]
Oh man, not the terrible left! I gotta warn the Sheeple of FP about them once more!
[editline]3rd August 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE]" The pope blamed what he called "ideological colonizing" backed by "very influential countries"[/QUOTE]
So is Russia or Saudi Arabia trying to turn us all gay or something? This is almost Trump-level speech, to be honest.
Well it definitely is a good thing that few people think it's a choice, then.
[QUOTE=skatehawk11;50818447]I agree but not for religious reasons. (This is all i'm posting)
[highlight](User was banned for this post ("Why reply" - Novangel))[/highlight][/QUOTE]
I don't really get the reason for this ban?
The guy just stated his opinion but just stated that he wouldn't proceed so that it won't turn into a shitshow.
Honestly I am inclined to agree after seeing all the bullshit that the concept of "gender fluid" spawned. You have these people insulting parents because they let their male kids play with "boy toys" and female kids with "girl toys". You have people who unironically ask "DID YOU JUST ASSUME MY GENDER?". You get these parents making their otherwise normal male kids wear skirts and headbands and shit to ingrain the concept of being gender fluid in their minds from a young age(where they're most likely not thinking about that shit yet). It might specifically be the combination of the concept and tumblr SJWs but those people are getting more and more prominent today it seems.
[highlight](User was banned for this post ("Derailinh" - Big Dumb American))[/highlight]
[QUOTE=srobins;50819498]I don't think I've ever heard somebody say that on this website..[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Dr.C;50808740]Pffft, what the fuck does the Pope, the infallible mouth piece of God, know?[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Rainboo;50819551]I don't really get the reason for this ban?
The guy just stated his opinion but just stated that he wouldn't proceed so that it won't turn into a shitshow.[/QUOTE]
The last time he said he wouldn't post again he ended up threadshitting for like 20 pages.
A comment like that is just incendiary, what's the point in expressing your opinion on a forum if you aren't willing to back it up or explain yourself? The only reason I can think of is to make people mad.
[highlight](User was banned for this post ("Derailing" - Big Dumb American))[/highlight]
well he's not wrong that some people are using textbooks to indoctrinate children on fundamentally wrong ideas...
[t]http://www.11points.com/images/bobjonesscience/science4cover.jpg[/t]
[t]http://www.11points.com/images/bobjonesscience/theories.jpg[/t]
[QUOTE=Sableye;50819574]well he's not wrong that some people are using textbooks to indoctrinate children on fundamentally wrong ideas...
[t]http://www.11points.com/images/bobjonesscience/science4cover.jpg[/t]
[t]http://www.11points.com/images/bobjonesscience/theories.jpg[/t][/QUOTE]
That's not really indoctrinating children, though.
That text is basically just giving the two leading beliefs in American society without really taking a stance.
[editline]2nd August 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=Judas;50818868]pope says something horrific and completely unacceptable by modern standards: "well nobody's perfect"[/QUOTE]
If this is "horrific and completely unacceptable by modern standards", then discrimination against trans people wouldn't be so widespread.
And I'd hardly call this "horrific". "Horrific" would be encouraging straight up lynching trans people.
[QUOTE=skatehawk11;50818447]I agree but not for religious reasons. (This is all i'm posting)
[highlight](User was banned for this post ("Why reply" - Novangel))[/highlight][/QUOTE]
Bullshit ban reason.
That said, I agree because it feels like a fucking fad or some shit.
[highlight](User was banned for this post ("Derailing" - Big Dumb American))[/highlight]
[QUOTE=LTJGPliskin;50819635]That's not really indoctrinating children, though.
That text is basically just giving the two leading beliefs in American society without really taking a stance.[/QUOTE]
That's simply not true. There are a lot of issues with that text book.
1. Religion should absolutely not be in science textbooks to begin with
2. They use negative language to make the scientists appear in the wrong: "Disregard the bible", "Everything got here by itself" "guess", etc.
3. They use the term "evolutionists" to imply that evolution is a belief
[QUOTE=Rainboo;50819551]I don't really get the reason for this ban?
The guy just stated his opinion but just stated that he wouldn't proceed so that it won't turn into a shitshow.
Honestly I am inclined to agree after seeing all the bullshit that the concept of "gender fluid" spawned. You have these people insulting parents because they let their male kids play with "boy toys" and female kids with "girl toys". You have people who unironically ask "DID YOU JUST ASSUME MY GENDER?". You get these parents making their otherwise normal male kids wear skirts and headbands and shit to ingrain the concept of being gender fluid in their minds from a young age(where they're most likely not thinking about that shit yet). It might specifically be the combination of the concept and tumblr SJWs but those people are getting more and more prominent today it seems.[/QUOTE]
he was banned because his post contributed nothing to the thread or discussion of the topic at hand
Are kids actually taught they can choose their gender? I'm just wondering, living on a fairly isolated and backwards island when it comes to this sort of stuff.
[QUOTE=Scorpo;50819780]Are kids actually taught they can choose their gender? I'm just wondering, living on a fairly isolated and backwards island when it comes to this sort of stuff.[/QUOTE]
no
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