• France's premier warns of new attacks, 15 000 people on police radar
    120 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Trebgarta;51034904][IMG]https://d.europe.newsweek.com/en/full/14065/refugees-germany.jpg?w=704[/IMG] Yes they have bunkbeds, how dare you grenadiac deny these people have free housing and subsidies, bunkbeds prove both[/QUOTE] The point is that he is intentionally being dishonest when posting those pictures, of course we aren't giving houses and apartments to a million fucking people who came here
[QUOTE=da space core;51034908]here is the point you miss. in a predominantly christian society, for example, all gay people would be stoned. but my response isn't "screw all christians" What I want is a secular society, where everyone can coexist. the way many middle eastern countries are going about it, turning religion into law, I believe is wrong. What I argue for is to allow the vast vast majority of muslims who do no wrong to exist peacefully without any prejustices against them. if one were to harm someone else, they would go under our court of law to fair trial just like anyone else. Is that really so insane?[/QUOTE] Now what happens if the costs of harboring people of a certain religion go through the roof? If those people *NOT ALL OF THEM, BUT MORE THAN ENOUGH* harbor vastly disproportionate numbers of violent criminals, sex-criminals, etc. And critique of them were stifled on religious and racial grounds?
[QUOTE=Trebgarta;51034934]Bunkbed hangars are free housing, then yes they do get it. Bring sources on government buying flats with ca$h then it is ok, not flats govt already owns, yknow, like in Germany. .[/QUOTE] Here's one article: [url]http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/samhalle/article23398633.ab[/url] I'm not going to link you every single occurrence of this, and I do not know what the situation is like outside of Sweden. But Germany is not the only country in Europe that has accepted refugees.
[QUOTE=momoiro;51034901]And those people are the ones that come to the west. What's your point? That he's right and the middle eastern muslims don't fit into western society?[/QUOTE] most muslims are conservative in the sense that "women cover up with a veil" or "men don't shave." these are cultural ideals that fade as you become integrated and exposed to other cultures (and if some folks keep those things, whats wrong with that? it causes no harm). yeah there are the more extremist ones, but we can target and punish those guys without persecuting the rest of the population who hasn't done anything wrong, yes? [QUOTE=momoiro;51034901]Why you even bring Maryam Mirzakhani into the discussion is beyond me, I don't want to say that you're projecting, but he never said all muslims were bad. In fact, if you had kept reading after the text you bolded, you'd have seen that he consented to the fact that not all muslims are child rapists or homicidal thugs.[/QUOTE] I brought her into the argument because it's a relatively unknown fact that casts doubt on the perspective "Muslims are uneducated people who..." And although I did specifically choose that bolded segment, it did not change the fact that he was generalizing in earlier posts, and you can't suddenly change your position to "well I don't think they are all bad." If he truly believes that, then why does he think it is fair to persecute the entire group for the actions of a minority?
This reminds me of how everybody used to despise Gypsies until Muslims became the new group we could all hate on and somehow feel justified. "They choose to live in ghettos!" "We give them so many handouts!" "They're naturally criminals!" "We should just kick them out!" "Why won't they just assimilate?!"
[QUOTE=Trebgarta;51034934] The thing is it is not [B][I]vastly [/I][/B]disproportionate, the disproportion is easily explained with socioeconomics and background.[/QUOTE] It is, just look at cologne for one example. [QUOTE=TheBloodyNine;51035029]This reminds me of how everybody used to despise Gypsies until Muslims became the new group we could all hate on and somehow feel justified. "They choose to live in ghettos!" "We give them so many handouts!" "They're naturally criminals!" "We should just kick them out!" "Why won't they just assimilate?!"[/QUOTE] Why is it always Americans who are the most ignorant in these threads I wonder. You always oversimplify these topics immensely.
[QUOTE=TheBloodyNine;51035029]This reminds me of how everybody used to despise Gypsies until Muslims became the new group we could all hate on and somehow feel justified. "They choose to live in ghettos!" "We give them so many handouts!" "They're naturally criminals!" "We should just kick them out!" "Why won't they just assimilate?!"[/QUOTE] Before them it was Black people and Irish people.
[QUOTE=Niklas;51035099]Why is it always Americans who are the most ignorant in these threads I wonder. You always oversimplify these topics immensely.[/QUOTE] First you generalize Muslims and now you're generalizing Americans good job I can't tell you much about the economy of my country, just because you live somewhere doesn't mean you know every single thing about it. Clearly you're clueless on the finer points of Islam and the migrant situation, despite being German. And yeah, good job not actually talking about my point. The same bigoted speech being thrown at Muslims is the exact same shit that was used against Gypsies for the past twenty years.
[QUOTE=TheBloodyNine;51035130]now you're generalizing Americans good job[/QUOTE] Because it is true, there is always some smartass american coming into these topics going "It's all the europeans fault!" [QUOTE=TheBloodyNine;51035130] And yeah, good job not actually talking about my point. The same bigoted speech being thrown at Muslims is the exact same shit that was used against Gypsies for the past twenty years.[/QUOTE] But it is true, many muslims simply don't want to integrate. Many projects for integration simply are refused.
[QUOTE=Niklas;51035225]Because it is true, there is always some smartass american coming into these topics going "It's all the europeans fault!"[/QUOTE] You should probably stop getting so offended that anyone would DARE accuse anyone but Muslims of wrongdoing. Especially since I never mentioned anything about Europeans, I just said you're being a bigot. Really, the only way you can get offended at what I originally said is if you either think I'm lying about Gypsies or if you hated them too. [QUOTE=Niklas;51035225]But it is true, many muslims simply don't want to integrate. Many projects for integration simply are refused.[/QUOTE] [CITATION NEEDED]
[QUOTE=Trebgarta;51035234]"Because it is true" "but it is true" You are a parody of yourself, good job[/QUOTE] Sorry that I don't have english sources for things that are not covered by international media :^) Still would love to see some sources on grenadiacs claims that police ignore violence against refugees, or that they receive second class healthcare refugees refuse to work "we are merkels guests" [url]http://www.compact-online.de/asylanten-verweigern-arbeit-wir-sind-merkels-gaeste/[/url] articles about law that forces refugees to attend integration courses, because, believe it or not, it is a problem [url]http://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/fluechtlinge-csu-fordert-integrationspflicht-fuer-migranten-a-1069762.html[/url] [url]http://www.faz.net/aktuell/wirtschaft/wirtschaftspolitik/arbeitgeber-fordern-integrationspflicht-fuer-fluechtlinge-14115356.html[/url] [url]https://www.cdu.de/artikel/integrationspflicht-wird-gesetz[/url]
[QUOTE=Grenadiac;51034134]What do you think happens when you marginalize an entire religion and treat its already stressed members like criminals? Hint: it's this.[/QUOTE] Fuck you. The French populace deserves none of the effects of the Islamic holy war. They're doing this for their religion and for their factions, not because whites "marginalized" them. People are dying over the Islamic ideology and you have the balls to sit back and say "well, they marginalized them, they deserve death" [highlight](User was banned for this post ("chill" - Craptasket))[/highlight]
[QUOTE=Niklas;51035225]But it is true, many muslims simply don't want to integrate. Many projects for integration simply are refused.[/QUOTE] Yeah all these dirty muslims invading my university trying to get diplomas and education to apply for high ranking jobs that don't pay minimal wage Bunch of scumbags who won't assimilate, that's why they're going to the same school as everyone else, because they're so inclined on isolating themselves. Yep, totally. That's why there's a North African woman teaching Arab at our university, because they're so seclusive and refuse to assimilate. Yep. That's why my French teacher was Muslim and born in Maghreb. That's why she volunteered to teach French to immigrants. Because they're all so seclusive. Yep.
[QUOTE=Legel;51035520]Fuck you. The French populace deserves none of the effects of the Islamic holy war. They're doing this for their religion and for their factions, not because whites "marginalized" them. People are dying over the Islamic ideology and you have the balls to sit back and say "well, they marginalized them, they deserve death"[/QUOTE] LMfao I didn't say anything like that I said this is what happens when you do that. You know what happens when you play on train tracks? You get hit by a train. That doesn't mean you deserve to get hit by a train, you just get hit by a train because that's the obvious result of playing on train tracks. The obvious result of marginalizing a billion people is backlash from marginalized people who are tired of being marginalized.
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;51035523]Yeah all these dirty muslims invading my university trying to get diplomas and education to apply for high ranking jobs that don't pay minimal wage Bunch of scumbags who won't assimilate, that's why they're going to the same school as everyone else, because they're so inclined on isolating themselves. Yep, totally. That's why there's a North African woman teaching Arab at our university, because they're so seclusive and refuse to assimilate. Yep. That's why my French teacher was Muslim and born in Maghreb. That's why she volunteered to teach French to immigrants. Because they're all so seclusive. Yep.[/QUOTE] I'm glad it's going really well for you over there considering here in the west I live a completely different experience every day.
[QUOTE=Anthracite;51035592]I'm glad it's going really well for you [B]over there[/B] considering here in the west I live a completely different experience every day.[/QUOTE] [img]https://i.gyazo.com/5abc91103e13115390742bc664769018.png[/img] [img]https://i.gyazo.com/ecda9e1c859913d018baac7a02abf206.png[/img] ???
[QUOTE=Grenadiac;51035628] ???[/QUOTE] He's in the south of france, I'm in the west of france.
[QUOTE=Anthracite;51035675]He's in the south of france, I'm in the west of france.[/QUOTE] Oh, sorry. I thought you thought he was in a different country. My bad.
I think this thread has devolved into a bunch of people asserting their own opinion on the extreme end of supporting the radical section of Islam (Or Arab/etc, whatever you want to define them as) by creating the picture that they're victims on the levels of an Apartheid. Meanwhile a lot of you folks also ignore sourced arguements, intentionally mislead with pictures and shout down the people who're against a potential boiling kettle to French society. No one was arguing that all Muslims/Arabs/Islam is evil. There's good and bad people no matter what ideology they cling to and who they are. But there's a considerable problem when you advocate for the migrants who come to Germany, Scandinavia and France to receive equal if not better housing and subsidies just for their long trek. There's considerable problems when you ignore that a lot of Islam-influenced ghettos swing to the extreme right and hold backwards ideology, feeling it better to create a parallel society instead of adapting to the norms of the host country. A lot of you have unrealistic expectations of all the countries of the West and how easily the people from the Middle East will assimilate, what's worse with this is that you're advocating the idea that the Government and societies of Europe should acquiesce to things that weren't originally apart of them as countries, usually with the sacrifice of their own wealth and culture. There is actually a very big problem that's been taking root within European countries and it's going to reach a boiling point soon if one side doesn't compromise. And the problem is is that not looking at the problems with an unbiased mind will lead to only letting it fester, this includes taking anecdotes of the very good people who happen to be Muslim and then making it a generalization. I know that a lot of people are going to reach around and say that, "Oh, you hate X!" or other variations of it and I don't -- At least, not people, Islam is another story (And no, following Islam doesn't make me hate the person.). Even then I don't agree, support or encourage the eradication of it as I would believe it would be in the better sense that people support the Muslim groups who advocate for Islam to undergo it's own Enlightenment period.
[QUOTE=Trebgarta;51035524]Are you against integration courses? and that compact-online, Magazine for Sovereignty. Front page: "No satire - British police considers Burka-Uniforms" "Heil Hillary - the candidate of USA Fascism" Is this the German Daily Express or InfoWars?[/QUOTE] Of course I'm not against integration courses, but a fraction of our refugees will never want to be part of our society, which doesn't help considering integrating a million people from the most religiously conservative part of the world is already impossible considering we are far over our own capacity.With such a large minority and such poor conditions extremism breeds easily, true, but you can't blame western governments for this. It is largely arab muslim culture that is to blame, you don't see christian refugees turning to extremism. As Keyblockor said, some here pretend as if refugees or muslims in general were in some kind of apartheid state, posting out of context images to fit that narrative, which is ridicilous The source originally was from a local newspaper and no major site covered it, so I posted what I could find.
[QUOTE=Grenadiac;51035527]LMfao I didn't say anything like that I said this is what happens when you do that. You know what happens when you play on train tracks? You get hit by a train. That doesn't mean you deserve to get hit by a train, you just get hit by a train because that's the obvious result of playing on train tracks. The obvious result of marginalizing a billion people is backlash from marginalized people who are tired of being marginalized.[/QUOTE] Where gays known for blowing up innocent people? Where Chinese immigrants known for blowing up innocent people? Where Irish immigrants known for blowing up innocent people? Are eastern European "Gypsies" known for blowing up innocent people? How about Jews? Etc. I'm sorry, but radical terrorism is not a normal response to racism or marginalization within a society. Protests? Sure. Disorderly conduct? Possibly. Radical terrorism through killing innocent people including children? No.
[QUOTE=sgman91;51036111] Where Chinese immigrants known for blowing up innocent people? Where Irish immigrants known for blowing up innocent people?[/QUOTE] Yes
Chinese and Irish caused shite loads of crime back in the day due to being marginalized. Natives committed various violent acts against Americans due to being marginalized. Marginalizing a group does cause that group to feel hostile against the majority. Just because they aren't planting bombs doesn't mean they aren't doing really bad shit in other ways. Also the Irish did bombed the shit out of people dude.
Marginalized groups generally go for the closest form of opposition they can. Historically in America that led to most of the immigrant groups (Jews, Chinese, Italians, Russians, the Irish) forming large scale mobs and crime syndicates whose crimes most people today would call terrorism. In Ireland that leads to people joining groups of the IRA. Muslim's don't have large crime networks of their race to fall into. They have radical cells.
I do wonder, does anyone remember Lebanon and it's civil war ? (aka the jihad on nonbelievers and the massacres on them) seems like nobody learned the lesson about 'peaceful immigration of religion fanatics' e.g. what's happening in Bosnia and Herzegovina is more and more muslim arabs settling in there ... and don't get started about the majority being 'peaceful' ... it's majority which does nothing when genocides and massacres are in progress, the silent majority closing eyes ... just ask rhetorical question, how many countries with rule of 'religion of peace' are stomping w/o mercy over fanatics ...
[QUOTE=Grenadiac;51034134]What do you think happens when you marginalize an entire religion and treat its already stressed members like criminals? Hint: it's this.[/QUOTE] I don't understand, what justification is there for radicalization? None, right? So why are we pretending that a stupid burkini ban is enough to warrant radicalization? What exactly is France doing that is so abhorrent and abusive to Muslims other than that? If you want to talk about social stigmas, can you really blame the French people for being apprehensive about Islamic culture considering.. You know, all the Muslims killing French people for no good reason? Obviously we'd all be better off if there were no bigots in the world and everyone in France was wise and compassionate enough to understand that most Muslims just want to live life like anybody else, but making excuses for radicalization is totally ridiculous. If you turn to radical Islam you're a piece of shit, end of conversation.
let me remind you that Lebanon was republic, with Maronites as the leading party (as it was agreed by France for help in WW2) do you even know the country had local Christans in majority until the immigration tipped the point ? but the Palestians kicked off the Jordan decided Lebanon is perfect ground to start operations vs Israel irony is Lebanon was anti-Israel oriented supporting Arab countries but first they decided to get rid of the local Christians, so the ~15 years of civil war killed around 100k Christians (out of around 150k dead total) ... this is what happens when fanatics form 'liberating army' and start to stops citizens on the road checkpoints to see theirs 'documents' and kill if there is 'Christian' as religion or ask to quote some parts of certain holy book ... if you with the wrong papers or answer, you and all passengers the car end dead in the narrow ditch next to the road sounds surreal, maybe ... but it's sad fact which repeated way too many times p.s. ask those who survived the cleansings , how they were shocked why the 'former peaceful neighbors were slaughtering them or just doing nothing' it happened before Lebanon and after and will happen again ... and the brutality of things, is just getting worse
[QUOTE=Grenadiac;51034134]What do you think happens when you marginalize an entire religion and treat its already stressed members like criminals? Hint: it's this.[/QUOTE] And what happens when religious extremists murder lots of innocent people? More and more people end up being bigoted and marginalizing people from said religion. I really don't understand posts like this which try to put the blame entirely on western nations. Neither is justifiable, it's a loop. A vicious circle.
[QUOTE=Glamour;51034196]why do you think they BECAME extremists?[/QUOTE] By not being expected to asymilate into western culture and being under a goverment and society so terriffied of being called oppressive/racist that they're immune to critisism, allowing extremist mosques and community figures to rise unabated and create leigons of fundie fantatics, that's how. 95% of muslim terrorists/extremists/etc come from muslim majority areas like Paris or Birmingham's muslim no go zones. do you think they're being oppressed there? How else do you think this works?
I hope all the people in France stay safe. It is really frighting to see that article and imagine the type of climate France is going to be in.
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