• France's premier warns of new attacks, 15 000 people on police radar
    120 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Grenadiac;51034134]What do you think happens when you marginalize an entire religion and treat its already stressed members like criminals? Hint: it's this.[/quote] Good job justifying unspeakable acts by saying its unfair they're held to the same standards as everyone else.
[QUOTE=Trebgarta;51038810]Same standards my ass. Marginalization is that they are explicitly [B][I]not[/I][/B] held to the same standards.[/QUOTE] I wasn't debating the definition of marginalisation, I was saying they're not marginalised.
[QUOTE=Saints;51039064]I wasn't debating the definition of marginalisation, I was saying they're not marginalised.[/QUOTE] Then you're wrong Don't really know how else to say it
[QUOTE=Grenadiac;51039069]Then you're wrong Don't really know how else to say it[/QUOTE] Alright, thanks mr. american. So good you're here to explain Europe to Europeans. They are not marginalized. An educated, well-spoken and respectful muslim will have just as many opportunities as a native of the same caliber. If you have no qualities catering to the western job market however, you are fucked. Again, like a native of the same caliber.
[QUOTE=Sprockethead;51039295]Alright, thanks mr. american. So good you're here to explain Europe to Europeans. They are not marginalized. An educated, well-spoken and respectful muslim will have just as many opportunities as a native of the same caliber. If you have no qualities catering to the western job market however, you are fucked. Again, like a native of the same caliber.[/QUOTE] Fucking Americans not being bigots.
[QUOTE=Grenadiac;51039069]Then you're wrong Don't really know how else to say it[/QUOTE] Oh fucking please. They are the complete opposite of marginalised in the UK. I've never seen a group so pandered to and so appeased.
[QUOTE=Sprockethead;51039295]Alright, thanks mr. american. So good you're here to explain Europe to Europeans. They are not marginalized. An educated, well-spoken and respectful muslim will have just as many opportunities as a native of the same caliber. If you have no qualities catering to the western job market however, you are fucked. Again, like a native of the same caliber.[/QUOTE] [B]Marginalization has nothing to do with legal inhibitions[/B], like being disbarred from applying to a job because of your religion, that stuff is gone in most developed country's constitutions. marginalization in this context is basically social pressure. bigots say "Muslims are bad," Muslims feel left out politicians appeal to aforementioned bigots with "I call for a complete ban of Muslims entering the United States," Muslims feel marginalized. Muslim communities become an echo chamber of "they hate us, they don't want to live with us, their politicians want to ban us," Muslims feel hatred towards "the west" Opportunistic religious and political figures use this hatred to radicalize them into fighters for their religion. None of this is helped by the fact that they receive worse education than we whiteys do (shitty education in their countries of origin, shitty learning conditions in western countries where they're concentrated into places resembling ghettos). Also no this aint "cuck white guilt" shit, it's just how things are right now. Indeed, in an ideal world a Muslim with equal credentials will receive the same treatment as a Christian, but we do not live in an ideal world. Study after study shows that skin color and religion does have a significant impact on job acquisition and social acceptance.
[QUOTE=sgman91;51036111] Where Irish immigrants known for blowing up innocent people? [/QUOTE] fucking lol when your point is "ONLY MUSLIMS BLOW PEOPLE UP" and then you say that radical terrorism isn't a response to marginalisation why do you think that the UK has pretty damn good experience with terrorism, and why other european nations might be having a harder time with it than us? [I]hint, it's not because muslims invented blowing people up[/I]
[QUOTE=Saints;51039451]Oh fucking please. They are the complete opposite of marginalised in the UK. I've never seen a group so pandered to and so appeased.[/QUOTE] [quote=Telegraph] Muslim women who wear headscarves are routinely being passed over for jobs and sidelined in the workplace because of what is seen as one of the last forms of “acceptable” discrimination, MPs have warned. [/quote] [url] http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/08/11/hijab-wearing-muslim-women-being-passed-over-for-jobs-in-last-fo/ [/url] [quote=BBC] One of the areas of concern the report highlights is how well these qualifications turn into employment, particularly for females. 29% of Muslim women between the ages of 16 and 24 are in employment, compared to approximately half the general population. For the ages group 25 - 49 the numbers show 57% of Muslim women in employment compared with 80% of women overall. [/quote] [url] http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-31435929 [/url] Jesus Christ look at that pandering!
So let's grant all you bleeding hearts that muslims are being marginalized in that other, more 'socially accepted people' are being favored in society over them. Which doesn't appear to be the case to me, in fact i feel people have gone out of their way to try and include them wherever they can. Historically they have still received a fucking kingly treatment, compared to any migrations that have occurred in the past. They go from oppressive theocracies that are basically smoldering holes in the ground, into western societies that have (until now) welcomed them at least legally, pretty much universally. So now that they are here, they got what i assume they wanted, (a life where they don't have to worry about bombings, until islam really took roots huh huh.) and now we have to expend MORE effort to make them feel just snug, dandy and welcome? How about fuck you, how about we place the same demands on them like everyone else, that they act responsibly and manage their lives properly. If they become radicalized extremists bent on hurting the nations that accepted them in, after all they've been given; they are respect-less bastards.
[QUOTE=Saints;51039451]Oh fucking please. They are the complete opposite of marginalised in the UK. I've never seen a group so pandered to and so appeased.[/QUOTE] Which is why there is frequent protests demanding they be forced out, complete lies to make them look bad on television all the time (BIRMINGHAM IS LITERALLY A SHARIA ZONE), misinterpretation and fabrications of their views which are believed in every level of society (Moon God, Muhammed the pedophile, no woman chooses the hijab/burka/nijab, killing apostates is mandatory, etc.), and the largest movement in the country in the last ten years (Brexit) which WON pushed "keep them out of England!" as one of its biggest points. [editline]12th September 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Sprockethead;51039658]So let's grant all you bleeding hearts that muslims are being marginalized in that other, more 'socially accepted people' are being favored in society over them. Which doesn't appear to be the case to me, in fact i feel people have gone out of their way to try and include them wherever they can. Historically they have still received a fucking kingly treatment, compared to any migrations that have occurred in the past. They go from oppressive theocracies that are basically smoldering holes in the ground, into western societies that have (until now) welcomed them at least legally, pretty much universally. So now that they are here, they got what i assume they wanted, (a life where they don't have to worry about bombings, until islam really took roots huh huh.) and now we have to expend MORE effort to make them feel just snug, dandy and welcome? How about fuck you, how about we place the same demands on them like everyone else, that they act responsibly and manage their lives properly. If they become radicalized extremists bent on hurting the nations that accepted them in, after all they've been given; they are respect-less bastards.[/QUOTE] A good thing that literally all sources prove you utterly and completely wrong. Just because you don't like brown people isn't a justification for a belief that they're somehow pampered and favored in your society. You don't know what being marginalized in a society is. You're not giving them some big favor by letting them enter your country and then having them face discrimination on most levels, awful living conditions and bigots telling them they should just stop whining and blaming them for terrorism.
[QUOTE=Sprockethead;51039658]So let's grant all you bleeding hearts that muslims are being marginalized in that other, more 'socially accepted people' are being favored in society over them. Which doesn't appear to be the case to me, in fact i feel people have gone out of their way to try and include them wherever they can. Historically they have still received a fucking kingly treatment, compared to any migrations that have occurred in the past. They go from oppressive theocracies that are basically smoldering holes in the ground, into western societies that have (until now) welcomed them at least legally, pretty much universally. So now that they are here, they got what i assume they wanted, (a life where they don't have to worry about bombings, until islam really took roots huh huh.) and now we have to expend MORE effort to make them feel just snug, dandy and welcome? How about fuck you, how about we place the same demands on them like everyone else, that they act responsibly and manage their lives properly. If they become radicalized extremists bent on hurting the nations that accepted them in, after all they've been given; they are respect-less bastards.[/QUOTE] Either you can't read or you're the most obvious troll ever because this page has posts explaining how Muslims aren't given "fucking kingly treatment".
[QUOTE=TheBloodyNine;51039669]You're not giving them some big favor by letting them enter your country[/QUOTE] Why yes. In fact.
[QUOTE=Sprockethead;51039658]So let's grant all you bleeding hearts that muslims are being marginalized in that other, more 'socially accepted people' are being favored in society over them. Which doesn't appear to be the case to me, in fact i feel people have gone out of their way to try and include them wherever they can. Historically they have still received a fucking kingly treatment, compared to any migrations that have occurred in the past. They go from oppressive theocracies that are basically smoldering holes in the ground, into western societies that have (until now) welcomed them at least legally, pretty much universally. So now that they are here, they got what i assume they wanted, (a life where they don't have to worry about bombings, until islam really took roots huh huh.) and now we have to expend MORE effort to make them feel just snug, dandy and welcome? How about fuck you, how about we place the same demands on them like everyone else, that they act responsibly and manage their lives properly. If they become radicalized extremists bent on hurting the nations that accepted them in, after all they've been given; they are respect-less bastards.[/QUOTE] Unfortunately that's not how the world works. Marginalization, like I said, is nothing to do with legal opportunities (only legal prohibition and official segregation is what fucks with marginalization) It's about cultural and social attitudes, while you can open your borders to them, if your society itself can be said to hate Muslims, then marginalization will follow. Like I said (which you ignored), they don't have the same opportunities that you or I do, and they largely don't have the same educational foundation that you or I do. Instead what they have is being cordoned off into ghettos, hearing nothing but hate from the country they're in and an echo chamber which just further radicalizes them. [editline]12th September 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Sprockethead;51039694]Why yes. In fact.[/QUOTE] It's not a favor, it's what should be expected of decent human beings. Unfortunately we only went halfway because there's way too many racists and bigots for proper integration to happen. They're all human, dude. Treat them how you would want them to treat you.
[QUOTE=Legel;51035520]you say "well, they marginalized them, they deserve death"[/QUOTE] farming simulator 2016 now with 2 times more strawmen
[QUOTE=EcksDee;51039746] Like I said (which you ignored), they don't have the same opportunities that you or I do, and they largely don't have the same educational foundation that you or I do. Instead what they have is being cordoned off into ghettos, hearing nothing but hate from the country they're in and an echo chamber which just further radicalizes them. They're all human, dude. Treat them how you would want them to treat you.[/QUOTE] In Sweden immigrants naturally congregate to Muslim-heavy areas. They're not being forced to move into areas where Muslims are in a majority, but most of them choose to do so. While I don't believe in discrimination or marginalization of Muslims, I am also strongly opposed to any affirmative action or any special treatment. Why should Muslims get free apartments when swedes have to take loans? Why should Muslims get more money from the government than senior citizens? Why should a workplace hire a Muslim who speaks poor Swedish over a native speaker? Why should they hire unqualified personnel? The problem with integrating refugees into western societies is that we have moved away from unqualified work towards service industries where education is necessary, beyond speaking the language of course. There really aren't a lot of jobs to go around even for uneducated native speakers, and the ones that the typical immigrant qualifies for are not exactly in overabundance. I can't see immigrant unemployment being solved for countries without English* as their national language being solved by anything other than re-industrialization and factories where they work for salaries well below the living standard. *This is not saying it would be easy in English speaking countries, but since many western nations require employees to speak both the native language fluently and English to some degree this creates additional need for education.
[QUOTE=da space core;51034856]I will say the refugee situation is a complex problem with no simple solutions. I understand why refugee camps occurred, no one expects Europe to magically build housing, infrastructure, and economy ready to support millions of people practically overnight. But, what I know is that pushing Muslims out of society will not end well. Not a single instance of a majority treating a minority group poorly/subhuman ended well. And we see it happening it today, whether it be banning the burka/burkini, talking down on them, calling them all terrorists, etc. I don't believe this situation can be all "love and roses", but going about it xenaphobically will CERTAINLY not help,[/QUOTE] True, hate for them won't help, truly. But you must set boundaries, if there is shit going on more often you need to do something right? (I don't know what, don't ask me). But if you don't do something - be passive, you can expect shit to continue and get even more intense. Also economy thing: EU host nations were in bad economic situation already, lots of poor people, lots of unhealthy people, law/hospital/police systems not working correctly/corrupt.. Helping refugees means giving your own standards, at least for a while. You can't deny that, money has to come from somewhere. EU can print new money yes but this means devaluing what natives already have. Or we pay with taxes, which are already too high for shit services. I think natives are mad at refugees because of rape incidents, Islam values, and they are also mad because government is helping them but there exist natives starving. [QUOTE=Trebgarta;51034868]WOW. They are refugees because Merkel invited them? I dont follow.[/QUOTE] I don't follow either, never said that. But I can rationalize that too.. : Lots of refugees that came were not Syrian - fake or missing ID; still accepted as refugee. Also Merkels message was broadcasted everywhere. Of course non-Syrians (in shit life situation) wanted to risk trip to EU, when they got the offer or saw other people doing it. They also have internet you know where lots of guides exist "how to bypass EU and go to germany/france". They aren't stupid.
[QUOTE=Zonesylvania;51034394]On the flip side let's be real, the existing nascent extremist movement in the East was helped along by the Pakistanis funding the mujahideen, but where did this funding come from? under the auspices of the CIA, who, under the Reagan administration, deemed it expedient to organize an army of over a billion Muslims against the 'evil communists', or in Reagan's own words, the 'evil Empire.' Salafism remained weak and isolated until the Western powers saw the movement as an opportunity to provide a bulwark against what they perceived was the threat of communism, as part of the grand strategy of the Cold War.[/QUOTE] America DID MORE TO HELP THE WORLD THAN THE URSS in the PAST, THE URSS WERE INDEED AN EVIL EMPIRE THAT SHAT ON EVERY COUNTRY IT POSSESSED, SEE : Eastern Europe. It was a god damn tyrannical government that BLOCKED AN COUNTRY (germany) FOR THEIR OWN CONQUEST INTEREST with a WALL that separated their people. YES the US did overthrown the Iran coup, Yes they funded the terrorist, yes they invaded Irak on a lie, but every country did something like this and i should say that THIS IS THE PAST. The US don't censors their fucking citizen, the US certainly do not execute them without justice, so yes, the USA was the reason that middle east is unstable, i can see it and i agree with it, they makes some so called --error-- killing hundred of innocent citizen -for 1 terrorist killed,10 innocent die-. but they certainly do not do it on purpose just to kill the innocent citizen of those country. And there is a REASON about WHY they became a superpower and won the cold war, it's because people preferred the US. The URSS didn't stand a SINGLE chance if you ask me, democracy is not perfect but it's also one of the best regime in the world for the human. I sound very pro american but i'm very tired of hearing the same bullshit about hating the west (generally the USA) Correct me if i sound wrong, or just disagree with me and explains why i am wrong. I am not narrow minded. [editline]13th September 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Fourier;51041011]Good paragraph[/QUOTE] One of the reason i think people dislike refugee is how entitled they are. God fucking damn it it's also one of my big problems with accepting them When i see those video of them rioting, hurting innocent people and cops that try to defend the territory.. it's making me angrier. Why? you are in a peaceful zone, everyone cares for you, you are in safety, you don't have to hears the bomb everytime, you got a bed, water, food, INTERNET, why the fuck would you try and eat the hands who give you the food?
[QUOTE=DogGunn;51034160]Awwww, those poor extremists. Poor them.[/QUOTE] This is [I]creating[/I] extremists, not offending them. France's policies of persecuting and alienating Muslims at every possible turn is feeding into the recruitment and propaganda networks of extremist organizations. How can people not be fucking seeing this? The feel-good bullshit being pulled with things like Burkini bans are only making the problem [I]worse,[/I] because you're routinely treating regular goddamn people like second class citizens. [editline]14th September 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=King Tiger;51034167]No, you don't understand. Muslims are children/animals/inanimate automatons who have no control over their actions. Everything that they do is a result of the West, like a logical computer program. They have no will or power of their own![/QUOTE] This is so inane it barely deserves a response. Newsflash: actions have reactions. Persecuting entire religious groups results in alienation, which results in resentment, which can eventually result in outright hostility. France, and the West in general, [I]is creating its own enemies through ignorant, reactionary outrage that unfairly demonizes Muslims as a whole.[/I] [editline]14th September 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=sgman91;51036111]Where gays known for blowing up innocent people? Where Chinese immigrants known for blowing up innocent people? Where Irish immigrants known for blowing up innocent people? Are eastern European "Gypsies" known for blowing up innocent people? How about Jews? Etc. I'm sorry, but radical terrorism is not a normal response to racism or marginalization within a society. Protests? Sure. Disorderly conduct? Possibly. Radical terrorism through killing innocent people including children? No.[/QUOTE] Do any of those groups hail from active warzones where large and deeply entrenched extremist networks are ready and waiting to bombard them with religious and social propaganda to the purpose of violently radicalizing the alienated masses to expand their own power and influence? I'm not telling you that religious persecution is the original cause for this shit, I'm telling you that [I]it's making it worse,[/I] and by a huge degree. Intelligence reports show that only 1-in-15000 Muslims are actively radicalized, yet approximately 1% of Muslims are [B]at risk[/B] of becoming radicalized [I]under the right condition[/I]s, and that is no small figure. That is terrifying. The fucking rhetoric you fools are preaching is what is pushing that 1-in-15000 closer to 1-in-100 [I]every day.[/I] Yet, you still feign ignorance. You use the escalation of tensions that you've helped instigate as proof of your righteousness. We're happily marching to the beat of extremism's drum, towards the global religious war between Muslims and the West that groups like ISIS have been calling for. All we would have to do to take the steam out of the sails is to [I]stop playing their game,[/I] and yet when faced with the facts of the situation, we are instead [B]doubling down[/B].
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