• IT BEGINS: Texas Senate is Voting on a REFERENDUM on INDEPENDENCE from the United States today.
    351 replies, posted
I thought it wasnt actually possible to secede from the union? Oh I see, its this specific type of secession that was ruled unconstitutional in Texas v. White, the kind where one side wants to secede. Apparently if its a revolution or there is the consent of the states it is legal. Although maybe you could argue that the precedent is over a century old so it isnt relevant anymore.
[QUOTE=Sableye;49254033]not to mention work out how to supply themselves with power once the coal trains and oil pipelines stop[/QUOTE] We have 200 years worth of coal within our borders and we are the number 1 producer, refiner, and exporter of Oil in the U.S., so what the fuck are you even trying to say?
[QUOTE=Sableye;49254033]Dude, it doesn't matter if Texas doesn't have a Syria next to it, they'd have to effectively rebuild their military, their police forces, secure the boarder, establish trade treaties, not to mention work out how to supply themselves with power once the coal trains and oil pipelines stop, and then workout how to pay for all of that without the massive amounts of federal aid they get. Plus an independent Texas would have the cartels invading the next day because they could takeover half of Texas without the threat of the US military or the US police forces Also I remind you those oil refineries don't belong to Texas, they belong to bp, she'll, Exxon and are not run by texans There are plenty of refineries on the west coast and around Texas. Holding that up as the Trump card is as stupid as when the snp was saying they'd own all of Britain's oil fields if they went independent, it isn't going to work out in texas's favor[/QUOTE] You're completely underestimating the importance of the Texas refineries in the global oil market. Why would the pipelines stop? It would be best for everyone if everyone cooperated. It doesn't matter if the refineries are owned by big corporations. They're not going to move them or stop production just because Texas secedes. Exxons HQ is in Irving, Texas (Dallas) and Shell Oil Company is HQ is in Houston. [Quote]The economy of Houston is primarily based on the energy industry (particularly oil); however, biomedical research and aerospace also constitute large sectors of the city's economy. The Houston–The Woodlands–Sugar Land MSA's gross domestic product (GDP) in 2012 was $449 billion, the fourth-largest of any metropolitan area in the United States.[1] The Houston metropolitan area comprises the largest petrochemical manufacturing area in the world, including for synthetic rubber, insecticides, and fertilizers. The area is the world's leading center for building oilfield equipment. The city is home to more than 3,000 energy-related establishments, including many of the top oil and gas exploration and production firms and petroleum pipeline operators.[2] As of 2011, 23 companies on the Fortune 500 list have their headquarters in Houston or the surrounding metropolitan region.[3][/quote]
[QUOTE=Broseph_;49253968]Because California is to indebted and their budget is too fucked, so they're trying to balkanize it by trying every two years to split it up into up to 6 states, and there's a secession movement in Nothern California right now where 8 counties voted to secede from the state.[/QUOTE] Those are fringe movements nobody takes seriously. The "6 state" solution was just a crackpot suggestion by some silicon valley tech giant. The Texan independence movement is a thing only because the state's conservatives are selfish crybabies mad about the fact that the president is a democrat.
[QUOTE=1nfiniteseed;49254222]Those are fringe movements nobody takes seriously. The "6 state" solution was just a crackpot suggestion by some silicon valley tech giant. The Texan independence movement is a thing only because the state's conservatives are selfish crybabies mad about the fact that the president is a democrat.[/QUOTE] The Texas secession thing has been around longer than Obama. It's more to do with Texan pride/ego and independent, do it yourself lifestyle.
the last time a country tried to secede from the USA it collapsed under the weight of its own incompetence and their economy imploded
I've said it once and i'll say it again- California would be the only state to survive a secession, mostly because we'd do it for economic and other reasons, and have a good relationship with the federal government already. I'd actually support a independent California, over any other independent state. It's highly unlikely to ever happen, though, and i realize that. Texas on the other hand, steps on too many toes in the union. Has too many issues with government and like as evidenced in the thread, delusional people.
[QUOTE=TheDestroyerOfall;49254304]I've said it once and i'll say it again- California would be the only state to survive a secession, mostly because we'd do it for economic and other reasons, and have a good relationship with the federal government already. I'd actually support a independent California, over any other independent state. It's highly unlikely to ever happen, though, and i realize that. Texas on the other hand, steps on too many toes in the union. Has too many issues with government and like as evidenced in the thread, delusional people.[/QUOTE] California would be too dependant on others. [editline]5th December 2015[/editline] The biggest problem for Texas would be down the road when oil stops its strangle hold on the world economy.
[QUOTE=OvB;49254269]The Texas secession thing has been around longer than Obama. It's more to do with Texan pride/ego and independent, do it yourself lifestyle.[/QUOTE] Yes, but it was never a serious thing up until 2009, which happened to be the year Obama took office. Prior to then, Texan secession was limited to tourism ads and your occasional fringe movement like Richard Mclaren's.
The argument about the merits and cons of Texas seceding "peacefully" is academic. The Federal government would never allow Texas to leave the union, it would simply represent too much of an economic loss for the States. The only way Texas could even try would be through violence, and against the vastly superior US Military, they'd fail horribly.
[QUOTE=Xubs;49252323]We're debating with Broseph_, not all of Texas. And yes, I have friends in Austin and my cousins live there.[/QUOTE] Austin is not Texas.
[QUOTE=1nfiniteseed;49254524]Yes, but it was never a serious thing up until 2009, which happened to be the year Obama took office. Prior to then, Texan secession was limited to tourism ads and your occasional fringe movement like Richard Mclaren's.[/QUOTE] What are you talking about, it was big in the 1990s then 9/11 happened plus Dubya the Texan being president. It became big in 2009 because Rick Perry made a off handed reference to secession at a speech when Obama rammed through Healthcare saying if he did anything radical it'll make his opposition even more extreme to the point of attempting secession, which the media blew the fuck up as Perry endorsing and even supporting secession which threw it into the mainstream discussion. Regardless "Secede" bumper stickers have been in style for years and most people I talk to are ether indifferent about secession or they think it's a insteresting prospect since why not. Meanwhile people call me delusional yet you guys are saying the United States would act like the Soviet Union or Yugoslavia did in 1990 and destroy the state using military force which is a batshit response; Or nonsense about how somehow people are going to lose their homes and jobs if Texas secedes; Or how the US is going to launch a full embargo against Texas eventhough that's going to effectively be a redux of the 1973 oil crisis and fuck up the US economy far more and position China as Texas' main partner. Meanwhile I find it amusing people are talking about how the cartels are going to flood into Texas like raiders in Fallout eventhough the last time they tried that they got destroyed by our police.
there isn't even that many texans who want independence, it's a fringe political movement consigned to weirdoes
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;49254881]there isn't even that many texans who want independence, it's a fringe political movement consigned to weirdoes[/QUOTE] and we have a weirdo right here
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;49254881]there isn't even that many texans who want independence, it's a fringe political movement consigned to weirdoes[/QUOTE] As someone who actually lives in Texas, I can confirm this. People may not be happy with the U.S. gov. but the only people wanting to secede are the vocal minority. Prepare to receive a lot of funny looks if you actually support secession here. It's a stupid idea to secede, Texas would be burning a bridge with a world superpower.
[QUOTE=RichyZ;49254854]ok i live in texas, and i know people from every major city worth giving a fuck about austin, dallas, houston, fort worth, and any large city in between have a lot of left minded youth with a large percentage of minorities the problem is that a shitload of farmland full of racist rednecks get a majority of the voting power and thus creates the situation we see today[/QUOTE] Yet a majority of Texans live in cities. [Img]http://www.dailyyonder.com/files/imagecache/story_default/imagefield/RuralStates528.jpg[/img]
[QUOTE=Broseph_;49254861]What are you talking about, it was big in the 1990s then 9/11 happened plus Dubya the Texan being president. It became big in 2009 because Rick Perry made a off handed reference to secession at a speech when Obama rammed through Healthcare saying if he did anything radical it'll make his opposition even more extreme to the point of attempting secession, which the media blew the fuck up as Perry endorsing and even supporting secession which threw it into the mainstream discussion. Regardless "Secede" bumper stickers have been in style for years and most people I talk to are ether indifferent about secession or they think it's a insteresting prospect since why not. Meanwhile people call me delusional yet you guys are saying the United States would act like the Soviet Union or Yugoslavia did in 1990 and destroy the state using military force which is a batshit response; Or nonsense about how somehow people are going to lose their homes and jobs if Texas secedes; Or how the US is going to launch a full embargo against Texas eventhough that's going to effectively be a redux of the 1973 oil crisis and fuck up the US economy far more and position China as Texas' main partner. Meanwhile I find it amusing people are talking about how the cartels are going to flood into Texas like raiders in Fallout eventhough the last time they tried that they got destroyed by our police.[/QUOTE] You never responded to me about this though. I pointed out how and why those people have to leave. You made it fucking clear in your own arguments. Here. I will break it down extremely SIMPLY. The move to secede is a minority movement. If the movement passed with a 51% referendum, just under half the new nation of texas MIGHT not want to stay there. Guess what? They have to leave. They have to leave their homes, who knows how hard it is to sell a home in a state that ISN'T a state? Who knows about those loopholes and how exactly is Texas or the US Government going to compensate them in that time of turmoil? Those people have to leave their homes. They have to leave their jobs. Their jobs do not come with them, they're not as mobile as your mentality seems to insist they are. The FACT of the matter is, a vast minority of people suffer because you want to secede. Do you see how the logic works out yet?
[QUOTE=WitheredGryphon;49254914]As someone who actually lives in Texas, I can confirm this. People may not be happy with the U.S. gov. but the only people wanting to secede are the vocal minority. Prepare to receive a lot of funny looks if you actually support secession here. It's a stupid idea to secede, Texas would be burning a bridge with a world superpower.[/QUOTE] I dunno here in Houston people seem to be open to it or just indifferent, that said I just support it when it comes up, beyond that it's a non-issue
[QUOTE=Broseph_;49254920]Yet a majority of Texans live in cities. [Img]http://www.dailyyonder.com/files/imagecache/story_default/imagefield/RuralStates528.jpg[/img][/QUOTE] You don't seem to understand what he means when he talks about voting power as population distribution is not the same as voting power. Do you know how that works?
Lmao my state puts out some great comedy material occasionally. I miss rick perry for that reason, every so often he'd do something great in the news. Also 1. this is[URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_v._White"] illegal as fuck[/URL] if they did it. If they actually do then the rest of the US would have something to say about it. Even if it was like a super majority that said yes, the US would probably still not let Texas go. 2. they arent going to do it. Most Texans find it stupid (both anecdotal and statistics-wise), there's just a couple people who find the idea to be great fap material. The kind that tailgate you in huge trucks with confederate/texas flags waving out the back.
[QUOTE=mecaguy03;49254120]I thought it wasnt actually possible to secede from the union?[/QUOTE] Andrew Jackson and the American Civil War established that.
[QUOTE=Broseph_;49254940]I dunno here in Houston people seem to be open to it or just indifferent, that said I just support it when it comes up, beyond that it's a non-issue[/QUOTE] I also live in Houston and almost everyone I know thinks it's a batshit crazy idea. See, I can provide anecdotal evidence too.
For the record, I think Texas could manage on their own(after the war and economic turmoil of one of the world's oil giants seceding their country) but don't think we should. Just because you can doesn't mean you should. I do love Texas ,though.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;49254938]You never responded to me about this though. I pointed out how and why those people have to leave. You made it fucking clear in your own arguments. Here. I will break it down extremely SIMPLY. The move to secede is a minority movement. If the movement passed with a 51% referendum, just under half the new nation of texas MIGHT not want to stay there. Guess what? They have to leave. They have to leave their homes, who knows how hard it is to sell a home in a state that ISN'T a state? Who knows about those loopholes and how exactly is Texas or the US Government going to compensate them in that time of turmoil? Those people have to leave their homes. They have to leave their jobs. Their jobs do not come with them, they're not as mobile as your mentality seems to insist they are. The FACT of the matter is, a vast minority of people suffer because you want to secede. Do you see how the logic works out yet?[/QUOTE] Okay and what's the point, that's an insane outlook because not much would change with the federal government gone, all the jobs will still be here because majority of the jobs are services, everyone will still have access to their bank accounts, and hell if we go to the extreme of a trade embargo gasoline and food will probably become very cheap due to over supply. Anyway everyone will keep their US Citizenship so what exactly are they losing that would drive them to start a civil war other than 'I want to be American but I want to force Texas be american instead of moving to america :,(' Seriously it's as stupid as the people who threaten to move to Canada everytime a new president is elected, most Texans have an immense amount of pride in the state and the only people who I can think of who would chimp out like that are out of state transplants who couldn't give less of a fuck about Texas. Meanwhile I'm always confused how people love to complain about the United States and federal government, but as soon aa secession comes up they're turned into blind patriots with an American pride penis harder than most republicans when we bomb brown people.
[QUOTE=RichyZ;49255100]you dont know how gerrymandering works yet you think we should succeed ahahahahahahahahahahahahhahAAAAA get me out of this state[/QUOTE] take me with you
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;49254948]You don't seem to understand what he means when he talks about voting power as population distribution is not the same as voting power. Do you know how that works?[/QUOTE] [IMG]http://www.hardhatters.com/hh-media/uploads/2014/11/2014-texas-governor-results-by-county.jpg[/IMG] Wow Austin and Dallas (Not even Fort Worth) are Democrat while the vast majority of the state is Republican except in the Valley and El Paso. [editline]5th December 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=RichyZ;49255100]you dont know how gerrymandering works yet you think we should succeed ahahahahahahahahahahahahhahAAAAA get me out of this state[/QUOTE] Even the cities are republican.
glasscock county lol and you got reagan county
[QUOTE=Megadave;49255171]glasscock county lol and you got reagan county[/QUOTE] What I don't get is why we have counties and major cities hundreds of miles apart named after the same person, only El Paso and Dallas are in counties that have the same name.
[QUOTE=Broseph_;49255164][IMG]http://www.hardhatters.com/hh-media/uploads/2014/11/2014-texas-governor-results-by-county.jpg[/IMG] Wow Austin and Dallas (Not even Fort Worth) are Democrat while the vast majority of the state is Republican except in the Valley and El Paso. [editline]5th December 2015[/editline] Even the cities are republican.[/QUOTE] those are not congressional districts, those are local districts [t]http://bdistricting.com/2010/TX_Congress/TX.png[/t] these are congressional districts, notice how the blue zones on the other map are usually deep withing large districts
[QUOTE=RichyZ;49255234]excuse the liberal bias but the pictures and stats don't lie [url]http://www.chron.com/news/politics/texas/article/This-is-how-badly-Republicans-have-gerrymandered-6246509.php#photo-7107637[/url] the houston ones are hilarious[/QUOTE] I really wish there was a rule the geographical center of these districts had to fall within its boundaries, that would seriously stop a lot of this shit. Fuck I really wish we had a parliamentary system instead of this shit, that way we might have more than two political parties.
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