• IT BEGINS: Texas Senate is Voting on a REFERENDUM on INDEPENDENCE from the United States today.
    351 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Cypher_09;49251686]A size comparison of Texas: [img]http://www.texasmonthly.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2015/01/germany.png[/img][/QUOTE] keep in mind you are comparing one of the most densely populated areas of the world with one of the most spread out populations of the world.
[QUOTE=Shibbey;49251553]Isn't it illegal on a federal level for a state to secede? I remember being told that[/QUOTE] I don't believe there's a specific law that states states can't leave; it's considered illegal through the law of "might makes right" in that the Union won the War Between the States. If Texas legitimately tried to secede, they would be invaded and seized by the federal military under the implication that they a "domestic threat" - or at worse, terrorists. [editline]It's fuck a duck day[/editline] That was a poor choice of words in my first sentence :v:
Let them do it, but dig up austin, and put it somewhere else. Fuck the rest of this state
:snip:
[QUOTE=Demolitions2;49251730]Let them do it, but dig up austin, and put it somewhere else. Fuck the rest of this state[/QUOTE] Someone's salty. Texas is great idk about the rest of you guys but to be quite honest I feel at home whenever I visit family down south.
[QUOTE=Shibbey;49251553]Isn't it illegal on a federal level for a state to secede? I remember being told that[/QUOTE] The Constitution provides processes for [URL="https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/articleiv"]new states to enter the union[/URL] but does not have a provision for states to leave the union. [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_secession_movements#Idea_of_secession_in_the_United_States"]This was was even debated and decided by the supreme court.[/URL] You really can't leave.
[QUOTE=Broseph_;49251558]Texas would net over 17 billion dollars a year by leaving the US, and it'll benefit a majority of people because then we'll no longer have to pay income tax which accounts to 20% of my paycheck.[/QUOTE] You're a retard if you think that Texas would be able to survive outside of the union, and you're even dumber if you think taxes will disappear if Texas secedes. [editline]5th December 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Broseph_;49251581] What good does being apart of the US do for Texas? There's nothing made in America I can't find made in Texas apart from shitty cars.[/QUOTE] Thats because American manufacturing is complete garbage. I would buy a Chinese made anything before I buy an American made anything. From cars to guns to toys to clothing, American manufacturing is second to everyone.
[QUOTE=Cyke Lon bee;49251737]You're a retard if you think that Texas would be able to survive outside of the union, and you're even dumber if you think taxes will disappear if Texas secedes.[/QUOTE] Also, I highly doubt the US is just going to turn a blind eye to this as well, while they might not engage Texas in a war they will absolutely do everything in their power to bring Texas to its knees.
[QUOTE=Cypher_09;49251686]A size comparison of Texas: [img]http://www.texasmonthly.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2015/01/germany.png[/img][/QUOTE] Texas has about 30 million people living in it. Germany alone has over 80 million. Size is irrelevant.
[QUOTE=MR-X;49251724]Texas does not have a income tax.[/QUOTE] And you're sure it won't have one if it leaves? Like every country in the world these days is heavily dependent upon some form of income tax to draw enough revenue to sustain the machinery of civilization.
[QUOTE=Cypher_09;49251686]A size comparison of Texas: [img]http://www.texasmonthly.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2015/01/germany.png[/img][/QUOTE] Texas has 27 million people, in that land space in Europe you are probably looking at 120 - 150 million people.
[QUOTE=Megadave;49251725]keep in mind you are comparing one of the most densely populated areas of the world with one of the most spread out populations of the world.[/QUOTE] Interesting, yeah fair enough. [editline]5th December 2015[/editline] same to above, I just thought it looked cool.
[QUOTE=Shibbey;49251553]Isn't it illegal on a federal level for a state to secede? I remember being told that[/QUOTE] There was a Supreme Court ruling shortly after the Civil War that ruled it unconstitutional (big surprise right?) but that doesn't necessarily mean they couldn't get away with it if the population [I]really[/I] wanted to. [QUOTE=Cypher_09;49251686]A size comparison of Texas: [img]http://www.texasmonthly.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2015/01/germany.png[/img][/QUOTE] Not to mention Texas alone has a gdp on par with the entirety of Spain with only about 2/3rds the population, there's not really any reason that it couldn't function on its own. Whether independence would be better or worse for Texas economically is a different question, and if its worse you'd have to question how much national sovereignty is worth.
[QUOTE=Broseph_;49251558]because then we'll no longer have to pay income tax.[/QUOTE] How long do you think Texas would last alone as its own country? Seceding from the US, as illegal as that is, isn't easy as you imagine it. First, I doubt the US dollar would continue to be the form of currency in Texas. Unless Texas becomes another Puerto Rico and becomes a territory, Texas would have to form its own currency if it becomes its own entity/country/whatever. And guess what? That currency will be dogshit compared to other countries. Second, there are too many government establishments in Texas that'd have to pull out. You've got NASA near Houston, you have the DEA branches, you have the individual FBI branches, you also have US military installments. Please tell me what will happen to those? Will Texas just automatically seize them? I doubt it, there goes your defense. Your only defense would be State Troopers and other law enforcement, and I guess National Guard, but since there has never been a state alone who left the union in modern day America I have no clue how the National Guard will still work in Texas. Texas just won't last on its own, I don't get why people in Texas want it to happen because it's not an easy process. You can't just make magic money, it costs to do this. So unless Texas manages to pull that money out of its ass, if you guys somehow manage to secede by some odd occurrence, living in Texas won't be particularly easy for a while.
[QUOTE=KOS-MOS;49251736] [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_secession_movements#Idea_of_secession_in_the_United_States"]This was was even debated and decided by the supreme court.[/URL][/QUOTE] "If there was any constitutional issue resolved by the Civil War, it is that there is no right to secede." To me, that's a stupid mentality to follow because the issue wasn't resolved through law-binding legislation but by the reasoning that the Union, in 1860-1864 had bigger guns. That doesn't make them right, it makes them more powerful - which is an international level of argumentum ab auctoritate.
[QUOTE=Broseph_;49251558]Texas would net over 17 billion dollars a year by leaving the US, and it'll benefit a majority of people because then we'll no longer have to pay income tax which accounts to 20% of my paycheck.[/QUOTE] Yup. That's lovely. Now enjoy [i]needing[/i] all those trucks to get anywhere because the state won't be able to afford to fix the freeways anymore. [QUOTE=Broseph_;49251581]Also it'll be nice if we lost a lot of the idiotic import regulations so we could get neat European cars here.[/quote] It isn't the import regulations. It's demand. Specifically, the lack thereof. Not enough people in America want those tiny little gokarts to warrant either loosening the regs or changing the cars to sell them here. Renault's to thank for that one. They tried it in the 80s and the spectacular unreliability pretty much ruined Europe's chances of selling their cars over here. The only ones that can pull it off are really high end stuff and VAG. FIAT.....Fiat's not really selling anything here. One model, that they're piggybacking off their ownership of Chrysler, and it isn't selling all that well either. But, hey, you could totes have a 500 if you want a car so small it can't really do much besides get you places and costs a fortune to service. [quote]There's nothing made in America I can't find made in Texas apart from shitty cars.[/QUOTE] You're aware that 95% of the cars you see wearing foreign badges in this country were made domestically, right? Nissans? Yup. Huge plant in Smyrna, TN. I've driven right past it, my dad delivers parts to it as part of his trucking job. If you own a Nissan built in America there's a small chance the air conditioning compressor on it was on the back of his semi at one point. BMW? Most of those sold here are built in, IIRC, South Carolina. Honda, Toyota, VW all have several plants throughout the country, pretty sure Nissan's got more than their Smyrna facility. Fun fact: You're more likely to find a Ford made internationally(My '99 P-71 Crown Vic is a Canadian! One of the three 80s F-series my family owns is Mexican!) than you are a 'foreign' car made as such. Check the VINs next time you're at the dealer, if they start with '1' they have never left the country.
[QUOTE=Rocko's;49251770] First, the US dollar is no longer your currency. Texas would have to form its own currency if it becomes its own entity/country/whatever. And guess what? That currency will be dogshit compared to other countries. [/QUOTE] This is not necessarily true. There are a lot of countries in the world that de facto use foreign currency as their own. They may not be able nor legally allowed to print US dollars, but it is completely feasible and possible for an independent Texas to keep using the US dollar as their currency, especially right after independence.
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;49251780]This is not necessarily true. There are a lot of countries in the world that de facto use foreign currency as their own. They may not be able nor legally allowed to print US dollars, but it is completely feasible and possible for an independent Texas to keep using the US dollar as their currency, especially right after independence.[/QUOTE] Yeah, neglected that part. Was more or less thinking that if Texas leaves, they will probably more than likely cut any ties with the US, and probably its money too. Forgot that it'd still be feasible for Texas to use the US currency as a form of de facto currency, even when it's illegal.
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;49251780]This is not necessarily true. There are a lot of countries in the world that de facto use foreign currency as their own. They may not be able nor legally allowed to print US dollars, but it is completely feasible and possible for an independent Texas to keep using the US dollar as their currency, especially right after independence.[/QUOTE] Why would Texas leave only for monetary policy to be still decided by the US? The difference now is that the considerations of Texas wouldn't be brought onboard, so if a policy which was favorable to the US but fucked over Texas was adopted, they could do nothing about it. Why bother with independence if you're not getting control over some of the most significant parts of economic policy?
[QUOTE=Broseph_;49251558]Texas would net over 17 billion dollars a year by leaving the US, and it'll benefit a majority of people because then we'll no longer have to pay income tax which accounts to 20% of my paycheck.[/QUOTE] You need literal trillions to run a nation, 17 billion isn't going to keep the roads paved and the civil services on payroll.
[QUOTE=Alan Ninja!;49251766] Not to mention Texas alone has a gdp on par with the entirety of Spain with only about 2/3rds the population, there's not really any reason that it couldn't function on its own. Whether independence would be better or worse for Texas economically is a different question, and if its worse you'd have to question how much national sovereignty is worth.[/QUOTE] sure, if you ignore the jurisprudence nightmare such a thing would be, and how a huge part of that GDP is because it is [I]part of the US[/I], not an independent country. the cost of running the US is offset by all the money from all the states and the taxes it collects from such an income Texas would have to instead spend its money on running all the things the Federal Government currently pays for.
[QUOTE=Darth Ninja;49251594]Seceding would only screw Texas over in the long run. Besides isn't the aim to follow the constitution more closely? I'm sorry but if you follow an outdated document that was written in a completely different are without question then that's not good.[/QUOTE] I fail to understand in what way the constitution can be considered outdated. The fundamental rights it grants are critical to the well being of american citizens, and its numerous amendments made since its inception have kept it nothing short of up to date. In the event of an important change in how power is distributed at the federal level, the logical thing to do is secede. I'm surprised the US has managed to remain united for so long considering the size of the country and the initial shtick of it, but that's probably due to how well their constitution was thought out
[QUOTE=Broseph_;49251672]Why would they, when independence will result in Texas getting control of all these oil rigs. [IMG]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/21/Gulf_Coast_Platforms.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE] Lol you actually think the US would let Texas secede AND have those oil rigs? I'd say keep your head in the clouds but there's no clouds at the altitude you're currently orbiting at.
[QUOTE=Scarabix;49251810]I fail to understand in what way the constitution can be considered outdated. The fundamental rights it grants are critical to the well being of american citizens, and its numerous amendments made since its inception have kept it nothing short of up to date. In the event of an important change in how power is distributed at the federal level, the logical thing to do is secede. I'm surprised the US has managed to remain united for so long considering the size of the country and the initial shtick of it, but that's probably due to how well their constitution was thought out[/QUOTE] I understand what you mean. I don't think the constitution is outdated, but from what I gather the movement to secede is against the US being unconstitutional since they have amended it a billion times and want to follow more in the steps of the true vision of the founding fathers. I might be wrong about that though.
[QUOTE=Cypher_09;49251686]A size comparison of Texas: [img]http://www.texasmonthly.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2015/01/germany.png[/img][/QUOTE] Wow.
[QUOTE=Alan Ninja!;49251766]There was a Supreme Court ruling shortly after the Civil War that ruled it unconstitutional (big surprise right?) but that doesn't necessarily mean they couldn't get away with it if the population [I]really[/I] wanted to. Not to mention Texas alone has a gdp on par with the entirety of Spain with only about 2/3rds the population, there's not really any reason that it couldn't function on its own. Whether independence would be better or worse for Texas economically is a different question, and if its worse you'd have to question how much national sovereignty is worth.[/QUOTE] They could go independent but their GDP would go down quite a bit. Many companies would leave Texas to go to other parts of the US and investor confidence would be low for awhile so people wouldn't want to invest a lot for several years.
[QUOTE=TestECull;49251778]Fiat's not really selling anything here. One model, that they're piggybacking off their ownership of Chrysler, and it isn't selling all that well either. But, hey, you could totes have a 500 if you want a car so small it can't really do much besides get you places and costs a fortune to service.[/QUOTE] You are aware there's more than 1 FCA Fiat in the US now right? [IMG]http://www.fiat.co.uk/uk/publishingimages/cars/500-family/540x324_trekking_allestimento.jpg[/IMG] And this one is actually a really nice car [IMG]http://cnet2.cbsistatic.com/hub/i/r/2015/04/15/b808caf8-96df-4396-8276-8e478f09595f/resize/770x578/9471702a64612af2dc897093b3169a8b/2016fiat500xft-004.jpg[/IMG]
[video=youtube;S92fTz_-kQE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S92fTz_-kQE[/video]
Its a crime threads like these dont have funny ratings
Texas making noise about leaving the union happens about as often as "Florida man does (incomprehensibly retarded thing)" headlines appear. It means nothing except for more state stupidity.
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