IT BEGINS: Texas Senate is Voting on a REFERENDUM on INDEPENDENCE from the United States today.
351 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Broseph_;49252597]Someone please tell me what benefits we have being a state, we have no external threats, we are not dependent on the United States for anything, we're not dependent on any imports, and 1 in 8 refineries in the world are located in Texas so it's not like we'll be isolated internationally.[/QUOTE]
A better question to ask would be how your federal government is even hindering Texas otherthan your selfish need to not provide income tax?
[QUOTE=Big Bang;49252504]so I had this long post replying to your obvious lack of understanding of international politics and trade, as well as economy, but frankly you're making an excellent case by yourself on why Texas secession wouldn't work, and who's actually calling for such a thing.
just by the way the article you mentioned states it clearly yourself, a majority of Texans don't want secession. and the referendum you speak of in the title isn't legally binding.[/QUOTE]
And I tore that post apart point by point, especially the stupid points you made like what happens if someone wants to become Texan after Texas becomes independent or your lack of basic knowledge about how the Federal System works in America as shown by you asking how our courts will function without the Federal Government, when the Federal Government has absolutely nothing to do with the state judicial systems.
Also why are you making this reply to a post to me attacking someone someone who is saying that if a state holds a free vote to secede and the majority says yes, that everyone who voted "no" will go out and start killing people and that's why they shouldn't secede.
He's literally saying we shouldn't have democracy because if we vote the wrong way then people will use violence to get their way, which is literally the definition of terrorism.
[QUOTE=G3rman;49252636]You have a very limited viewpoint on the subject, as does everyone since we haven't seen a state secede in over 150 years.
It is entirely likely that you [B]are[/B] dependent on the US for a great many things that a normal citizen isn't even aware of, you [B]are[/B] probably going to be dependent on some kind of imports, and it is also entirely likely that, in this hypothetical scenario, no country would acknowledge Texas's independence thanks in large part to the US's domineering political tactics.
I mean, just look at Taiwan and the PRC. Very few countries acknowledge Taiwan, even if they are the "Democratic" China because it is simply a wiser political and economical move to associate oneself with the PRC in the mainland.
There would be no future for you as an independent nation.[/QUOTE]
The US would just say Texas is not a nation and that would be the end of that. The four other nations would probably say no also but it takes all 5 to get a UN seat.
But seeing as it is the crazy part of Texas talking right now, they would most likely think the UN is some stupid organization that is illegal or whatever.
[QUOTE=ZakkShock;49252637]They don't need 'em, they got their freedoms. Yeehaw[/QUOTE]
Politicians out of Texas are the types that want to abolish medicare and social security anyway.
[QUOTE=Broseph_;49252642]And I tore that post apart point by point, especially the stupid points you made like what happens if someone wants to become Texan after Texas becomes independent or your lack of basic knowledge about how the Federal System works in America as shown by you asking how our courts will function without the Federal Government, when the Federal Government has absolutely nothing to do with the state judicial systems.
Also why are you making this reply to a post to me attacking someone someone who is saying that if a state holds a free vote to secede and the majority says yes, that everyone who voted "no" will go out and start killing people and that's why they shouldn't secede.
He's literally saying we shouldn't have democracy because if we vote the wrong way then people will use violence to get their way, which is literally the definition of terrorism.[/QUOTE]
YOU ALREADY HAVE DEMOCRACY (although not great, you should really try and change that with all that DEMOCRACY you are swimming in).
Besides what is stopping the Government from getting rid of that democracy when they somehow manage to secede? The office of Governor or whatever might as well change to a Hereditary Monarchy with ABSOLUTE POWER and then where is your fucking democracy then?
[QUOTE=Broseph_;49252642]And I tore that post apart point by point, especially the stupid points you made like what happens if someone wants to become Texan after Texas becomes independent or your lack of basic knowledge about how the Federal System works in America as shown by you asking how our courts will function without the Federal Government, when the Federal Government has absolutely nothing to do with the state judicial systems.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Kommodore;49252290]nevermind the post office or the national parks or interstate or Texans losing access to the USGS, fair housing, federal disability, a massive number of federal jobs, all veterans losing access to VA benefits, cemeteries, customs, the arts, financial aid for students at your universities, federal insurance and credit services, small business loans, social security, bond agreements, AMTRAK, patents and trademarks, grain and meat inspection and so on[/QUOTE]
so, about that "no new taxes" thing...
[QUOTE=Broseph_;49252485]Nobody is forcing them to do shit, if they want to live in the U.S., they still have their U.S. passport, they're free to fucking leave, beyond that, you're the one saying they are going to go out and start shooting people over Texas leaving the United States following a free vote, and you know what, that's completely illogical and psychotic, I'm not going to argue with that.[/QUOTE]
Whether it's illogical or psychotic is completely irrelevant to whether it is likely to happen or not. You might not have noticed it but people in general are quite illogical, often psychotic, and pretty damned irrational. You cannot realistically expect people to uproot their entire life and leave things behind such as houses that they grew up in or leave the town they have lived their entire life in because the state they lived in made a choice they disagreed with. Those people are far more likely to fight for what they see as the right and just thing to do.
[QUOTE]I'm not going to argue with that.[/QUOTE]
You haven't actually been arguing the point anyways. You've just been blindly denying what people have been saying on the matter and simply saying "but that's illogical" or some such when it being illogical is irrelevant.
if texas secedes, will it be more american than america? like fucking columbia or something
[editline]5th December 2015[/editline]
until mexico invades to get that land back
[QUOTE=Broseph_;49252485]
[B]Whoever decides to respond to [U][I]democracy[/I][/U] with [U][I]violence[/I][/U] deserves to forfeit their life.[/B][/QUOTE]
Look, I think you need a little bit of clarification on what "democracy" means.
Etymologically, you're correct. Democracy [I]literally[/I] means power to the people. However, from a political standpoint, the notion is a lot more indirect.
The power goes to the people because the people votes, and elects individuals (who come from the average population) who decide for them. From a purely ideal standpoint, the small group of individuals who were elected by the people will always make decisions that the people will agree with.
Now this is all ideals and from a practical standpoint this isn't really how it works. However, the important notion to take from this is that "democracy" is not [I]literal[/I] democracy, the same way an individual's "freedom" in a country like France or the USA or Sweden is not literal freedom, it's still governed by a list of social constructs and morals and legal barriers to prevent abuse.
Referendums are a bit of a peculiar thing because they are addressed directly to the people, and not to those that the people have elected to take decisions. As such, referendums rarely ever carry an actual political strength and are more of an indicative measure - because ultimately the decision falls upon those that the people have elected, not upon the people themselves.
I can't believe I have to explain this to a fucking grown up guy on a forum. Because the USA is a democracy, does not mean that the people are literally allowed to do whatever they want. It means they're allowed to choose who rules over them.
[QUOTE=Lord of Ears;49252696]if texas secedes, will it be more american than america? like fucking columbia or something
[editline]5th December 2015[/editline]
until mexico invades to get that land back[/QUOTE]
Less american as its no longer american.
[QUOTE=Broseph_;49252642]And I tore that post apart point by point, especially the stupid points you made like what happens if someone wants to become Texan after Texas becomes independent or your lack of basic knowledge about how the Federal System works in America as shown by you asking how our courts will function without the Federal Government, when the Federal Government has absolutely nothing to do with the state judicial systems.
Also why are you making this reply to a post to me attacking someone someone who is saying that if a state holds a free vote to secede and the majority says yes, that everyone who voted "no" will go out and start killing people and that's why they shouldn't secede.
He's literally saying we shouldn't have democracy because if we vote the wrong way then people will use violence to get their way, which is literally the definition of terrorism.[/QUOTE]
You kinda ignored everyone pointing out that the majority of the citizens of your state of freedom do not want to seceed. The "majority" you speak of doesn't exist, and you'd be displacing millions of people and telling them to "fuck off and leave." You keep saying everyone is psychotic for thinking a civil war would happen, yet statistically the true majority would want to stay in the union and you telling them to shove off isn't gonna go too well for your garbage idea of a tax free utopia
[QUOTE=Broseph_;49252485][B]Whoever decides to respond to [U][I]democracy[/I][/U] with [U][I]violence[/I][/U] deserves to forfeit their life.[/B][/QUOTE]
really?
[QUOTE=Broseph_;49251672]Why would they, when independence will result in Texas getting control of all these oil rigs.
[IMG]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/21/Gulf_Coast_Platforms.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
So what?
They will put on taxes.
What are you gonna do?
[QUOTE=jordguitar;49252714]Less american as its no longer american.[/QUOTE]
I'm pretty sure being on the American continent still accounts for being American though.
[QUOTE=Fourier;49252738]So what?
They will put on taxes.
What are you gonna do?[/QUOTE]
Cry when his taxes go up.
[editline]5th December 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;49252742]I'm pretty sure being on the American continent still accounts for being American though.[/QUOTE]
Then Mexico is 500% more American than the USA.
[QUOTE=HybridTheroy;49252640]A better question to ask would be how your federal government is even hindering Texas otherthan your selfish need to not provide income tax?[/QUOTE]
Texas has no control of it's monetary policy, our economic policies are beholdant to the Federal Government, we can't control our borders, the state can't borrow money to invest in projects, the Federal projects they force on Texas are broken and inept because they don't understand our state like their highspeed rail plan, they interfere with out power-plants, they won't let us build new refineries, they even control our fucking speed limits, and when we tried to regulate the TSA which is the embodiment of a violation of civil rights they literally threatened to declare a no-fly-zone over our state.
[IMG]http://cdn.urbancincy.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/United-States-High-Speed-Rail-Map.jpg[/IMG]
And here's the high-speed rail I'm talking about, it's shows the blatant lack of understanding of Texas because they connect Dallas to Oklahoma and Houston to Louisiana with no connection in between when Houston and Dallas are the biggest cities and economic power-houses of Texas yet the Federal Government is too fucking stupid to connect them.
[IMG]http://www.houstontomorrow.org/uploads/TexasTriangle_Map-web.jpg[/IMG]
[QUOTE=Broseph_;49252642]He's literally saying we shouldn't have democracy because if we vote the wrong way then people will use violence to get their way, which is literally the definition of terrorism.[/QUOTE]
this is actually incredible
[QUOTE=ghghop;49252720]You kinda ignored everyone pointing out that the majority of the citizens of your state of freedom do not want to seceed. The "majority" you speak of doesn't exist, and you'd be displacing millions of people and telling them to "fuck off and leave." You keep saying everyone is psychotic for thinking a civil war would happen, yet statistically the true majority would want to stay in the union and you telling them to shove off isn't gonna go too well for your garbage idea of a tax free utopia[/QUOTE]
We're talking about a hypothetical where a majority does vote to leave the U.S; I never said a majority does support it, only that I do and I think Texas would be better off without the United States.
[QUOTE=Broseph_;49252771]We're talking about a hypothetical where a majority does vote to leave the U.S; I never said a majority does support it, only that I do and I think Texas would be better off without the United States.[/QUOTE]
It wont and you are a crazy person for thinking so.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;49252723]really?[/QUOTE]
Yes, if you are going out and shooting people because they didn't vote the way you want them to, that's the definition of terrorism and you should be killed.
I don't see how anyone can disagree with this.
[QUOTE=Broseph_;49252771]We're talking about a hypothetical where a majority does vote to leave the U.S; I never said a majority does support it, only that I do and I think Texas would be better off without the United States.[/QUOTE]
That hypothetical will never happen, and if it does, then the US will be severely in some shit for a huge chunk of a state being fine with their state seceding.
[QUOTE=Mr.Moustachio;49252270]Here lets make a list of why texas should succeed
-FREEDOM
-No TAXES
-Texan flag instead of american
-Confederate flag legal
-No LIBERAL LAWS
-All GUNS LEGAL
-HOLY BIBLE ONLY RULEBOOK WE NEED
-No gays
-Can marry cousins
-LIBERTY
-legal slavery
-No more minorities
-REMEMBER THE ALAMODE[/QUOTE]
Fuck the confederate flag, I hate neo-confederates with a passion, even Sam Houston called them fucking idiots in 1861 which is why he was removed from office.
Also you realize cousin marriage is a criminal offense in Texas, meanwhile it's legal in Canada and all of the EU?
Despite your obsession with state rights and whatnot, the people and the state of Texas have agreed years ago to being part of the United States and as such the federal government is prioritized over your government.
Given because of how large states are in the US it makes sense that they're given more leeway but ultimately you're still part of the same nation. Almost, if not all countries in Europe are divided in regions as well, and while they have their own rights, they're still ultimately bound to follow the central government's own rules.
Deal with it.
[editline]5th December 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=Broseph_;49252816]Fuck the confederate flag, I hate neo-confederates with a passion, even Sam Houston called them fucking idiots in 1861 which is why he was removed from office.[/QUOTE]
But they're the people, and since you're in a democracy, then you can't disagree with them or else you're an anti-democratic fascist terrorist.
Oh wait, you're a hypocrite, nevermind.
[QUOTE=Broseph_;49252597]Someone please tell me what benefits we have being a state, we have no external threats, we are not dependent on the United States for anything, we're not dependent on any imports, and 1 in 8 refineries in the world are located in Texas so it's not like we'll be isolated internationally.[/QUOTE]
you'll lose all federal funding, federal programs, access to all federal land and property (unless you want to invade the US LOL).
you'll have to deal with border security, you'll be sandwiched between one country that hates you and one that dislikes you. no one will recognize you (the csa was the south's best shot and even then no one gave a shit). no one will trade with you because the US hates you.
every single interstate connection will be cut off, all out of state companies will no longer be able to function. you will literally be living like cavemen.
Anyone read the article? It doesn't even mention the Texas Senate. This is about the Texas Republican Party deciding whether to put secession on the GOP primary ballot in March, to determine how Republican voters feel about it.
[quote]A proposal to put Texas secession to a non-binding vote in March passed a state GOP committee vote in Austin on Friday afternoon, clearing the way for a vote Saturday by the Party's full executive assembly, party officials reported.[/quote]
[quote]The SREC is the governing body of the Republican Party of Texas, and it decides what will appear on the March 1 Republican primary ballot.[/quote]
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;49252818]But they're the people, and since you're in a democracy, then you can't disagree with them or else you're an anti-democratic fascist terrorist.
Oh wait, you're a hypocrite, nevermind.[/QUOTE]
Hating them and burning their symbol =/= Going out and shooting them because of what they believe in.
[QUOTE=smurfy;49252827]Anyone read the article? It doesn't even mention the Texas Senate. This is about the Texas Republican Party deciding whether to put secession on the GOP primary ballot in March, to determine how Republican voters feel about it.[/QUOTE]
They might as well just do opinion polling on their own dime instead of the taxpayers dime.
[QUOTE=Broseph_;49252780]Yes, if you are going out and shooting people because they didn't vote the way you want them to, that's the definition of terrorism and you should be killed.
I don't see how anyone can disagree with this.[/QUOTE]
These people would be fighting because you tried to force them out of their homes and properties.
[editline]5th December 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=Broseph_;49252831]Hating them and burning their symbol =/= Going out and shooting them because of what they believe in.[/QUOTE]
Lmao do you listen to yourself? These people wouldnt be fighting against democracy. They'd be fighting against a government trying to evict them from their homes
[editline]5th December 2015[/editline]
Like if we were to give a vote on whether or not we should kill all the jews and the majority voted yes would that be okay becaise it happened democratically?
[QUOTE=jordguitar;49252714]Less american as its no longer american.[/QUOTE]
i was just basing it off stereotypical texan culture, which is like american culture cranked up to 110%
it was not a serious post
[QUOTE=jordguitar;49252840]They might as well just do opinion polling on their own dime instead of the taxpayers dime.[/QUOTE]
Presumably the GOP primary ballot is funded by the GOP unless there's some fucked up shit going on
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