Prisoners will soon have to fund their stay in prison
223 replies, posted
This is a stupid idea, our prison system is a joke. Although it might sound like a good idea on paper it is completely impractical. The savings that come from charging an inmate to stay in prison is not enough to justify the effect it would have on the inmates themselves. A prison should rehabilitate convicts, and give them another chance to live free once they have done just that. What we have here is a vicious cycle that makes money off of people who went down the wrong path, and keeps them going in that same direction to make an even bigger profit. Fuck whatever evil bastard came up with this idea, and the privatization of such a system.
[QUOTE=jgerm529;33694246]You know there are other ways to get money, it's called getting a job. I don't care how bad the economy is there is always some where you can work to get money even if it's cleaning bathrooms or working as a grabage truck driver.[/QUOTE]
you mean things like jobs?
are you saying that, no matter how few jobs there are, you can always get a job?
so the unemployment rate isn't based on how few jobs there are? whenever the unemployment rate goes up that's just because hundreds of thousands of people are suddenly deciding to become lazy all at the same time?
[QUOTE=jgerm529;33694246]You know there are other ways to get money, it's called getting a job. I don't care how bad the economy is there is always some where you can work to get money even if it's cleaning bathrooms or working as a grabage truck driver.[/QUOTE]
It's not like its easy getting a well paid job as it is (from what I've read the past year), I dont really think having exactly no money, possibly being homeless, and having a criminal record helps much
Plus, rehabiliation in the US is a fucking joke
[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;33694271]you mean things like jobs?
are you saying that, no matter how few jobs there are, you can always get a job?
so the unemployment rate isn't based on how few jobs there are? whenever the unemployment rate goes up that's just because hundreds of thousands of people are suddenly deciding to become lazy all at the same time?[/QUOTE]
Because people are picky, as in oh I don't have a job and this guy needs the roof redone on his house but nah I'm to good for that. There is always a source of income somewhere I can't tell you how many roofs I've done or fields I've plowed because I needed ends meat and I was willing to do some hard work for someone.
This is stupid. The prisoners should be forced work while in prison to pay for the food and lodging but this just makes it even more likely to become repeat offenders. How are they supposed to pay it off? Ex-convicts already have a massive disadvantage when it comes to finding a job so they are probably just going to get forced back into crime.
[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;33694241]hey, y'all know how poor people are more likely to commit crimes because of the way poverty strips them of other opportunities? well, let's make them even poorer[/QUOTE]
Well yeah, private prisons combined with the fact that prison labour is used to build all sorts of things means that America needs to do whatever it can to keep its slave trade functioning
Oops did I call it a slave trade I meant to say correctional system
[QUOTE=jgerm529;33694190]
You guys are maiking it sound like the prisoners are your best friends who got a life sentence for jaywalking. Most criminals are just that criminals and should be treated as such. Some people just belong in prison. Sorry but that is a fact of life.[/QUOTE]
Yeah we're all ignorant. Thanks 18 year old, you clearly know more about life than me.
Some people belong in jail. Paedophiles, murderers, etc. The problem with that is, while there may be a reason to treat those kind of people like shit, there isn't much justification for treating some guy who was caught shoplifting some DVD or something the same way. Prison should rehabilitate people, you can't just treat people like absolute shit and expect them to just walk out of prison thinking "Fuck crime, I'm not going back there again". While some might, most will probably be embittered by their treatment and take that shit out on society again.
Just because someone is against something doesn't mean they're for the complete extreme opposite.
[QUOTE=jgerm529;33694308]Because people are picky, as in oh I don't have a job and this guy needs the roof redone on his house but nah I'm to good for that. There is always a source of income somewhere I can't tell you how many roofs I've done or fields I've plowed because I needed ends meat and I was willing to do some hard work for someone.[/QUOTE]
No one wants to hire someone if they have a criminal record. People don't trust them.
Cool now my father won't be able to support himself or my little sister when he gets out of prison
-snip-
[QUOTE=Flicker;33694353]Yeah we're all ignorant. Thanks 18 year old, you clearly know more about life than me.
Some people belong in jail. Paedophiles, murderers, etc. The problem with that is, while there may be a reason to treat those kind of people like shit, there isn't much justification for treating some guy who was caught shoplifting some DVD or something. Prison should rehabilitate people, you can't just treat people like absolute shit and expect them to just walk out of prison thinking "Fuck crime, I'm not going back there again". While some might, most will probably be embittered by their treatment and take that shit out on society again.[/QUOTE]
You know what I did because I needed a job? I enlisted in the USMC. And you're downplaying their crimes because typicaly someone isnt in jail for multiple years because they stole a DVD.
[QUOTE=jgerm529;33694246]You know there are other ways to get money, it's called getting a job. I don't care how bad the economy is there is always some where you can work to get money even if it's cleaning bathrooms or working as a grabage truck driver.[/QUOTE]
Why do you assume everyone who commits crimes are unemployed? They could easily have low paying jobs, working insane hours but still not have enough money to provide for their families which results in welfare fraud or something? "I AM POOR AND I HAVE A JOB SO WHY DON'T THESE CUNTS JUST GET JOBS RIGHT I MEAN THEY'RE ALL JUST LAZY." You just sound fucking ignorant.
Yeah fine, some might but some are getting taxed as heavily as you for the same jobs but with families to provide for and travel and shit.
[QUOTE=jgerm529;33694395]You know what I did because I needed a job? I enlisted in the USMC. And you're downplaying their crimes because typicaly someone isnt in jail for multiple years because they stole a DVD.[/QUOTE]
Right so we make prison conditions terrible for the bunch of prisoners who are in for the more extreme crimes and it's totally justified for the guys who are in there for lesser crimes because they're not in there as long? This sort of shit just increases the chance of these people going out and doing it again. There are cases that prove treating prisoners humanely is the way to go: [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halden_Prison[/url] [url]http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1986002,00.html[/url]
[QUOTE]The article says that although recidivism rates are calculated differently between countries, only 20% of Norway's prisoners end up back in jail within 2 years (compared to 50%-60% in the UK and US)[/QUOTE]
Don't treat people like shit and they wont treat you like shit back.
[QUOTE=jgerm529;33694308]Because people are picky, as in oh I don't have a job and this guy needs the roof redone on his house but nah I'm to good for that. [/QUOTE]
again, that doesn't explain why thousand upon thousands of people suddenly all become unemployed or find new jobs in waves. "some people are picky" doesn't explain why unemployment isn't a constant.
[QUOTE=jgerm529;33694308] There is always a source of income somewhere I can't tell you how many roofs I've done or fields I've plowed because I needed ends meat and I was willing to do some hard work for someone.[/QUOTE]
just because you've had luck finding manual labor doesn't mean that everyone everywhere has the same opportunities as you. that's a fallacy
[QUOTE=Used Car Salesman;33693799]Wow, so not only do you lose years of your life spent in prison, but the state makes sure you're financially ruined for the rest of your miserable life once you finally get out.
Aren't privatized prisons great?[/QUOTE]
So I read the article, and I have a quick question for you.
Where do private companies come into this? The decision was made by the county, which was forced into it's precarious financial position regarding prisoners by the state, which was forced to change it's policies on prisoners by the Supreme court. So I ask you, where do private companies come into this? Because, you know, that's what privatized means.
While I'm at it, I'll ask you a few other questions.
Did you actually read the whole article? Or just the headline?
Do you EVER read the whole article?
Did you know what privatized meant when you posted?
Feel free to answer these in any order.
[QUOTE=jgerm529;33694395]You know what I did because I needed a job? I enlisted in the USMC.[/QUOTE]
not everyone can do that because they're not fit enough to or they have families they're unwilling to leave or they are ideologically opposed to the conflicts that the military is currently involved in or a myriad of other reasons
[b]NOT EVERYONE IS YOU.[/b] People are living in different situations, in different places, coming from different backgrounds and with different opportunities from you. Try to understand that
[editline]12th December 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Spooter;33694468]So I read the article, and I have a quick question for you.
Where do private companies come into this? [/QUOTE]
Simple, they influenced the drafting of the legislation by helping to elect candidates who share their interests and lobbying
[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;33694480]
Simple, they influenced the drafting of the legislation by helping to elect candidates who share their interests (legal through the We the People Act) and lobbying[/QUOTE]
What? The legislation to move it the prisoners to the county jails? How does that get them money?
[QUOTE=jgerm529;33694395]You know what I did because I needed a job? I enlisted in the USMC. And you're downplaying their crimes because typicaly someone isnt in jail for multiple years because they stole a DVD.[/QUOTE]
You're right, typically they're in jail for the much more serious transgression of having weed :v:
[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;33694461]again, that doesn't explain why thousand upon thousands of people suddenly all become unemployed or find new jobs in waves. "some people are picky" doesn't explain why unemployment isn't a constant.
just because you've had luck finding manual labor doesn't mean that everyone everywhere has the same opportunities as you. that's a fallacy[/QUOTE]
There is always something you can do to work and no if you look hard enough you will find something even if that means going door to door asking if people need work done.
[QUOTE=Spooter;33694468]So I read the article, and I have a quick question for you.
Where do private companies come into this? The decision was made by the county, which was forced into it's precarious financial position regarding prisoners by the state, which was forced to change it's policies on prisoners by the Supreme court. So I ask you, where do private companies come into this? Because, you know, that's what privatized means.
While I'm at it, I'll ask you a few other questions.
Did you actually read the whole article? Or just the headline?
Do you EVER read the whole article?
Did you know what privatized meant when you posted?
Feel free to answer these in any order.[/QUOTE]
Privatized companies come into this because they charge more than bare minimum for all the supplies to take in, house, and feed an inmate. Do you know what a company is? Something that provides a service to make a [B]profit[/B]. The companies themselves may have had no impact on this issue directly, but if people weren't trying to make money from the prison system, keeping a convict would not be so expensive, and therefore they would not be in the economic situation they are in right now.
[QUOTE=jgerm529;33694561]There is always something you can do to work and no if you look hard enough you will find something even if that means going door to door asking if people need work done.[/QUOTE]
Some people aren't 18 and would look pretty weird doing that
Yes that's right, put them in a harder financial situation than before, it's not like that will have [i]any[/i] adverse affects on the person.It's not like a person's more likely to commit a crime when they have less to loose.
It's so illogical it hurts.
[QUOTE=notxmania;33694549]You're right, typically they're in jail for the much more serious transgression of having weed :v:[/QUOTE]
I'm not going to debate which laws I think are just and which are not. I believe marijuana should be legal but thats not the point, the point is they should have to pay for the food and clothing and such while they are in prison. I may not agree with a law but that does not mean I'm going to break it.
If you're talking about the city/state, it doesn't really get them money, but it saves them money because a private company pays most of the costs of running the prison.
If you were talking about the company, the state/city probably pays them to house prisoners, but probably pays less than if they ran the thing themselves.
then again, I'm not an expert on the penal system though pretty much anyone can see it's absolutely fucked
[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;33694480]not everyone can do that because they're not fit enough to or they have families they're unwilling to leave or they are ideologically opposed to the conflicts that the military is currently involved in or a myriad of other reasons
[b]NOT EVERYONE IS YOU.[/b] People are living in different situations, in different places, coming from different backgrounds and with different opportunities from you. Try to understand that
[editline]12th December 2011[/editline]
Simple, they influenced the drafting of the legislation by helping to elect candidates who share their interests and lobbying[/QUOTE]
I do try to and I fail at it because no matter who you are or where you are there is some task some job that someone is willing to pay you to do.
[QUOTE=jgerm529;33694608]I'm not going to debate which laws I think are just and which are not. I believe marijuana should be legal but thats not the point, the point is they should have to pay for the food and clothing and such while they are in prison. I may not agree with a law but that does not mean I'm going to break it.[/QUOTE]
So when you get locked up for possession you should have to pay for it? You should get a totally shitty cell, awful food, work for fuck all and leave with debt? Seems fair.
[QUOTE=jgerm529;33694561]There is always something you can do to work and no if you look hard enough you will find something even if that means going door to door asking if people need work done.[/QUOTE]
Volunteer or 'in kind' work doesn't pay bills.
But please, do keep desperately holding on to the belief that everyone has an equal chance in life. Your optimism is refreshing.
[QUOTE=jgerm529;33694395]You know what I did because I needed a job? I enlisted in the USMC.[/QUOTE]
well that's pretty much the same as going to a prison that pays you
[QUOTE=da bloop;33694583]Privatized companies come into this because they charge more than bare minimum for all the supplies to take in, house, and feed an inmate. Do you know what a company is? Something that provides a service to make a [B]profit[/B]. The companies themselves may have had no impact on this issue directly, but if people weren't trying to make money from the prison system, keeping a convict would not be so expensive, and therefore they would not be in the economic situation they are in right now.[/QUOTE]
Ah, okay. Thank you, that clears it up.
As for this, I honestly don't think it's that bad. If only an estimated 25 percent can pay, then that probably means, contrary to what people are saying, that prisoners who got into jail for small-time property crime because they're poor won't have to pay. A judge has to decide if the person is able to pay, and I don't think a small time banger living out of a loft or a guy who stole a DVD player is going to have to pay.
[QUOTE=Flicker;33694634]So when you get locked up for possession you should have to pay for it? You should get a totally shitty cell, awful food, work for fuck all and leave with debt? Seems fair.[/QUOTE]
Yea basicly and if you read the article it states that they only charge you if you are finacialy able to pay for it. And ok you don't want to go to jail for smoking weed? Then don't smoke it.
[QUOTE=Mattk50;33693679]Based on the article, nothing. If you have the money they take it though.[/QUOTE]
That sounds an awful lot like [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extortion]extortion[/url] to me.
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