• Prisoners will soon have to fund their stay in prison
    223 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Spooter;33694655]Ah, okay. Thank you, that clears it up. As for this, I honestly don't think it's that bad. If only an estimated 25 percent can pay, then that probably means, contrary to what people are saying, that prisoners who got into jail for small-time property crime because they're poor won't have to pay. A judge has to decide if the person is able to pay, and I don't think a small time banger living out of a loft or a guy who stole a DVD player is going to have to pay.[/QUOTE] You make a fair point. My point was just privatising this sort of shit may lead to bribery. Judges can be corrupted, there will be people treated unfairly by this system in the name of "making an example". That could be said for most things though, I guess.
[QUOTE=Kuro.;33694640]Volunteer or 'in kind' work doesn't pay bills. But please, do keep desperately holding on to the belief that everyone has an equal chance in life. Your optimism is refreshing.[/QUOTE] That's how I pay my bills. I can afford and apartment and my truck because I work hard and earn money from doing so. Sure it may not pay the bills of some fancy house or some sports car and the solution is dont buy them and if you have them and need money then sell them.
[QUOTE=jgerm529;33694669]And ok you don't want to go to jail for smoking weed? Then don't smoke it.[/QUOTE] Yes fuhrer
Eh On one hand I'm glad there's a system in place to help pay for prisons without relying on taxdollars, considering how much of a massive financial burden it is to pay for someone to stay in prision On the other hand this will totally ruin anyone who goes into prision, even if they are there for a year or less and for really stupid reasons, unless they are wealthy (which is almost 0% of prisioners). So basically it doesn't help in the rehabilitation sense at all. Why can't we just have it so prisoners are forced to do regularly-occuring, dirty, reasonably safe uneducated jobs around the US that nobody else would want to do, in order to "pay" for their cost on society? Basically every prisoner does manditory community service of some level, where you go home at the end of the day in the prison instead of at home. At least then, the financial burden it costs to have a prisoner isn't so bad as the tax dollars will actually get stuff done, AND the can learn good work habits/skills while in prison that can improve their chances of successfully contributing members of society when they get out. I know they already do similar things like roadside cleanups, and helping out at some charities, but those things are hardly extensive and only done a "good terms" first-come-first-serve basis from a prisoner perspective. Imagine how good our roads and travel infrastructure would be if doing stuff like repaving asphalt was done by the large prisoner "workforce" already being paid by the community, rather than an extra cost we have to vote for levy wise for local communities.
you know what would be cooler? A mini city thing, kinda like a Jewish ghetto minus the starvation and death, they basically run a small city and get rehabilitated that way. Or the serious ones pay money to live in a lower security building with a good school system and access to computers and stuff.
[QUOTE=KorJax;33694746]Eh On one hand I'm glad there's a system in place to help pay for prisons without relying on taxdollars, considering how much of a massive financial burden it is to pay for someone to stay in prision On the other hand this will totally ruin anyone who goes into prision, even if they are there for a year or less and for really stupid reasons, unless they are wealthy (which is almost 0% of prisioners). So basically it doesn't help in the rehabilitation sense at all. Why can't we just have it so prisoners are forced to do regularly-occuring, dirty, reasonably safe uneducated jobs around the US that nobody else would want to do, in order to "pay"? Basically every prisoner does manditory community service of some level, where you go home at the end of the day in the prison instead of at home. At least then, the financial burden it costs to have a prisoner isn't so bad as the tax dollars will actually get stuff done, AND the can learn good work habits/skills while in prison that can improve their chances of successfully contributing members of society when they get out. I know they already do similar things like roadside cleanups, and helping out at some charities, but those things are hardly extensive and only done a "good terms" first-come-first-serve basis from a prisoner perspective.[/QUOTE] This is a good idea also.
[QUOTE=BANNED USER;33694674]That sounds an awful lot like [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extortion]extortion[/url] to me.[/QUOTE] Really? Like, it sounds like the word phonetically? Because it doesn't match the definition at all. Extortion is threatening to do something to someone if they don't pay... what are the government threatening people in jail with? Are you saying that the government is threatening them with jail time if they break the law? Because that's kinda how prison works.
[QUOTE=KorJax;33694746] Why can't we just have it so prisoners are forced to do regularly-occuring, dirty, reasonably safe uneducated jobs around the US that nobody else would want to do, in order to "pay" for their cost on society? Basically every prisoner does manditory community service of some level, where you go home at the end of the day in the prison instead of at home. [/QUOTE] Labour IS money, so how is forcing them to work any different?
[QUOTE=jgerm529;33694709]That's how I pay my bills. I can afford and apartment and my truck because I work hard and earn money from doing so. Sure it may not pay the bills of some fancy house or some sports car and the solution is dont buy them and if you have them and need money then sell them.[/QUOTE] What about if you live somewhere with a ridiculously high cost of living like Hawaii? What then? Mowing lawns and walking dogs might put food on the table 4 out of 7 days of the week, but it's not going to pay rent or utilities, which, if I'm not mistaken, are the barest of necessities. It's also not going to pay for gas or transportation (not even the bus), meaning even if you wanted something better you're limited to how far you can walk to get to your job.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;33694733]Yes fuhrer[/QUOTE] I'm not saying it's wrong I'm just saying if you're not willing to possibly face the consequences of getting caught, then don't do it. [editline]12th December 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Kuro.;33694778]What about if you live somewhere with a ridiculously high cost of living like Hawaii? What then? Mowing lawns and walking dogs might put food on the table 4 out of 7 days of the week, but it's not going to pay rent or utilities, which, if I'm not mistaken, are the barest of necessities. It's also not going to pay for gas or transportation (not even the bus), meaning even if you wanted something better you're limited to how far you can walk to get to your job.[/QUOTE] Cooperation with fellow human beings. Maybe live with a few people in simaler situations as you or family members and work together to get by.
[QUOTE=Seiteki;33693637]What happens if they don't pay? They go to jail? Kicked out?[/QUOTE] The CIA ships them to kenya.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;33694766]Labour IS money, so how is forcing them to work any different?[/QUOTE] Because labor ISN'T money, not for the prisoner at least. This makes it so money is actively drained from the prisoner's pockets. Working, on the other hand, doesn't. So this is actually worse than making them work based on simple logic.
[QUOTE=jgerm529;33694669]Yea basicly and if you read the article it states that they only charge you if you are finacialy able to pay for it. And ok you don't want to go to jail for smoking weed? Then don't smoke it.[/QUOTE] I was more asking about prison conditions than this particularly payment thing because you were so blasé about the fact that inmates get the living shit kicked out of them. Someone may be seen as lower middle class and capable of paying but 3 months in prison means 3 months not earning anything on top of whatever other payments you may have. So even if you can afford it out of your savings, you're essentially paying two rents on top of all your bills. That's the kind of shit that might end up with you missing mortgage or car payments and totally fucking with your life. Some people are on a delicate balance right now, even middle class families, who pay more tax than you do.
Put them all in a big hamster wheel, make them run in it and generate power.
[QUOTE=Flicker;33694832]I was more asking about prison conditions than this particularly payment thing because you were so blasé about the fact that inmates get the living shit kicked out of them. Someone may be seen as lower middle class and capable of paying but 3 months in prison means 3 months not earning anything on top of whatever other payments you may have. So even if you can afford it out of your savings, you're essentially paying two rents on top of all your bills. That's the kind of shit that might end up with you missing mortgage or car payments and totally fucking with your life. Some people are on a delicate balance right now, even middle class families, who pay more tax than you do.[/QUOTE] So don't commit the crime and in my OPINION inmate abuse is something sensationalised like teen sexting is.
Fucking retarded idea. It would be cheaper to house them in an Extended Stay America motel. Just put bars on the windows and remove the door handle from inside the room. Cost ya 125 bucks a week at the most.
[QUOTE=jgerm529;33694779]Cooperation with fellow human beings. Maybe live with a few people in simaler situations as you or family members and work together to get by.[/QUOTE] That rarely ever works well, you either get one or two people who end up doing all or most of the work and lots of fighting.
What are they gonna do if they don't pay? Arrest them?
[QUOTE=jgerm529;33694894]So don't commit the crime and in my OPINION inmate abuse is something sensationalised like teen sexting is.[/QUOTE] it's good to have opinions but just because you have one doesn't mean it needs to be taken seriously in the face of actual facts
[QUOTE=Zeke129;33694766]Labour IS money, so how is forcing them to work any different?[/QUOTE] Because if they were outside of prison they would be working to pay taxes, buy food and pay their rent/mortgage. Why should they get food and shelter in prison but not have to work for it?
[QUOTE=Lazor;33695005]it's good to have opinions but just because you have one doesn't mean it needs to be taken seriously in the face of actual facts[/QUOTE] ok how often does inmate abuse occur statisticly? Not very much.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;33694766]Labour IS money, so how is forcing them to work any different?[/QUOTE] Because instead of the $20k it costs for a prisoner to sit in a prison for a year and do nothing for society, it'll be $20k for a prisoner to do 8 or so hrs a day of community labor that needs done and is normally contracted, in addition to sitting in prison. Side bonus of making prionsers better contributing members of society after they get out too (ideally). Of course realistically speaking if this were to be done it'd probably cost slightly more per prisioner to have them incarcerated, since the local government will need to pay for renting/owning stuff that involves said community labor jobs that need labor to complete. But they'd ideally no longer have to rely on spending even more tax money on contracting for such jobs, and would have a much better infrastructure because of it.
[QUOTE=jgerm529;33694561]There is always something you can do to work and no if you look hard enough you will find something even if that means going door to door asking if people need work done.[/QUOTE] you can't support a family doing this. stop saying "you can make money" over and over. maybe you can make whatever you need but that doesn't automatically make it true for everybody else in the world
[QUOTE=jgerm529;33695049]ok how often does inmate abuse occur statisticly? Not very much.[/QUOTE] I like how you demand sources then provide none to back your claim up of "Not very much"
[QUOTE=jgerm529;33695049]ok how often does inmate abuse occur statisticly? Not very much.[/QUOTE] if by "not very much" you mean "very much" then yes, you're right [url]http://www.hrw.org/news/2007/12/15/us-federal-statistics-show-widespread-prison-rape[/url] [url]http://www.prisonpolicy.org/scans/bjs/svrca05.pdf[/url]
I have a friend who's son is in prison abroad somewhere and he has to pay £10,000 a year to keep his son fed and clothed in there with a bed to sleep on.
i support the idea of putting felons to labor, but this isn't the way to go about it
[QUOTE=jgerm529;33694894]So don't commit the crime and in my OPINION inmate abuse is something sensationalised like teen sexting is.[/QUOTE] hey dogg, your opinion wicked sucks and is wrong
[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;33695167]if by "not very much" you mean "very much" then yes, you're right [url]http://www.hrw.org/news/2007/12/15/us-federal-statistics-show-widespread-prison-rape[/url] [url]http://www.prisonpolicy.org/scans/bjs/svrca05.pdf[/url][/QUOTE] Those are just statistics that are based on facts in reality. Do you expect me to take them seriously?
wow this is a really bad idea. just another way for assholes to try and make a buck off other peoples misfortune and to keep poor people locked up indefinitely
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