Prisoners will soon have to fund their stay in prison
223 replies, posted
[QUOTE=KorJax;33695143]Because instead of the $20k it costs for a prisoner to sit in a prison for a year and do nothing for society, it'll be $20k for a prisoner to do 8 or so hrs a day of community labor that needs done and is normally contracted, in addition to sitting in prison. Side bonus of making prionsers better contributing members of society after they get out too (ideally).
Of course realistically speaking if this were to be done it'd probably cost slightly more per prisioner to have them incarcerated, since the local government will need to pay for renting/owning stuff that involves said community labor jobs that need labor to complete. But they'd ideally no longer have to rely on spending even more tax money on contracting for such jobs, and would have a much better infrastructure because of it.[/QUOTE]
If the government is buying labour job positions they should be using them to reduce unemployment, not force prisoners to work
For the cost of a prisoner they could be giving a good wage to someone - someone who potentially could be a prisoner themselves in the future if they can't get a job and get out of poverty
What is with Americans' obsession with bandaid solutions instead of thinking up actual societal reforms that will stop problems before they occur
Our prison system is simply a revenge system with no benefits for the imprisoned.
There is a reason they're called correctional facilities, they are supposed to fix criminals, not make them better criminals with all the knowledge of a genius outlaw or whatever.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;33696496]If the government is buying labour job positions they should be using them to reduce unemployment, not force prisoners to work
For the cost of a prisoner they could be giving a good wage to someone - someone who potentially could be a prisoner themselves in the future if they can't get a job and get out of poverty
What is with Americans' obsession with bandaid solutions instead of thinking up actual societal reforms that will stop problems before they occur[/QUOTE]
I don't know what you are talking about. Bandaid solutions work very well.
In fact I suggest we execute every criminal ever. Crime and prison overcrowding solved.
Nothing could possibly go wrong.
[QUOTE=jgerm529;33695326]Alright well then you are right but still if you don't want to have to deal with that then don't go comit crimes and get sent to jail. simple[/QUOTE]
deal with [b][i]rape[/i][/b]?
are you saying that if you commit a crime then it's ok for you to be [b][i]raped?[/i][/b]
that's a terrible thing to say and you should be ashamed
[QUOTE=jgerm529;33694561]There is always something you can do to work and no if you look hard enough you will find something even if that means going door to door asking if people need work done.[/QUOTE]
I don't know about the rest of you guys, but having a middle aged man coming to my door asking for work is a bit strange. I can understand maybe a little kid asking to do some chores to raise money, but an adult is a whole different ballpark. If someone who is up in age goes door to door, I doubt that anyone would bother with them. It really wouldn't matter anyways since it wouldn't be a steady source of income for the person. If they need work that bad and they're doing something menial for you, then that money won't last long for them.
Not to mention that prison time doesn't look good on a resume. Assuming they applied for a job, they'd have less of a chance to get it then someone who hasn't been to prison in most cases. There's not just some magical job fairy who gives everyone a job. It's not like a multitude of people are unemployed simply because they don't feel like working either.
If they stopped putting so many people in prison, we wouldn't [b]need[/b] to have this stupid idea.
Yes! make them PAY
[editline]13th December 2011[/editline]
With their blood
> Commits crime cause no way to get money and prison better than nothing
> Has to pay even more money cause he was in prison
> Commits more crime
Dude... detain someone against their will, and make them pay you for it?
Fucking genius.
[QUOTE=Seiteki;33693637]What happens if they don't pay? They go to jail? Kicked out?[/QUOTE]
There is a Jail in the Jail for people that dont pay.
I like how our jail system screws people over when they get out.
Now it might even more so.
Though, it [i]is[/i] good incentive to not break the law when you think about it...
Great idea, I bet that'll make it a lot easier for them to get back to work and restart their lives anew. It's not like poverty is one of the main reasons people commit crime anyway, right?
[QUOTE=Zeke129;33696496]If the government is buying labour job positions they should be using them to reduce unemployment, not force prisoners to work
For the cost of a prisoner they could be giving a good wage to someone - someone who potentially could be a prisoner themselves in the future if they can't get a job and get out of poverty
What is with Americans' obsession with bandaid solutions instead of thinking up actual societal reforms that will stop problems before they occur[/QUOTE]
I think you are looking too deep into this. The government wouldn't be buying labor job positions, I'm simply stating that if prisoners did forced community service positions or did a bunch of jobs that imrpoved state-funded infrastructure so the government didn't have to spend even MORE money contracting for doing those same exact things, a prisoner would essentually "pay" for their government cost to keep them in prison, while also keeping local government/state owned infrastructure in tip top shape. And when prisoners get out, they will hopefully have solid work ethic and skills they can take into their life to make them better people, seeing as the entire tiem they were in prison they were busy working.
The only downside is that the companies that normally get contracted for such things will now only rely on private parties to do their work for. While not great, it doesn't mean jobs in that sector for people who want to do them will instantly vanish.
This is a profoundly bad idea.
Besides, all the rich people who get rich via crime, you know, the ones possibly deserving of this, have their assets seized anyway.
[QUOTE=Coffee;33693918]They have rights. Everyone else has to pay the tax, so why do you think you should be an exception?[/QUOTE]
How about a good bunch of prisoners do crimes because it's their only way of having income ?
I'm surprised facepunch is upset about this. I think our prison system should be like Japan's; 23 hours a day in your cell with nothing but a toilet, book, and bed. You get 1 hour a day to walk in a 10x10 chainlink yard. You serve your time, and you probably won't come back.
[QUOTE=Aetna;33703534]I'm surprised facepunch is upset about this. I think our prison system should be like Japan's; 23 hours a day in your cell with nothing but a toilet, book, and bed. You get 1 hour a day to walk in a 10x10 chainlink yard. You serve your time, and you probably won't come back.[/QUOTE]
If this was the case and there wasn't overcrowding, violence and rape in prisons in each country then yeah, fine.
[QUOTE=Aetna;33703534]I'm surprised facepunch is upset about this. I think our prison system should be like Japan's; 23 hours a day in your cell with nothing but a toilet, book, and bed. You get 1 hour a day to walk in a 10x10 chainlink yard. You serve your time, and you probably won't come back.[/QUOTE]Agree but only for high security prisons. There's no reason to punish a weed smoker or a petty thief like that really.
[QUOTE=Uber|nooB;33693706]They'll make a special prison within the prison where the unpaying prisoners will go to be prison prisoners.[/QUOTE]
Where the prisoners are the guards of the unpaying prisoners? The Experiment
[QUOTE=Heatvision...;33704280]Where the prisoners are the guards of the unpaying prisoners? The Experiment[/QUOTE]Paying prisoners could earn money by working as unpaying prisoner guards?
[quote]You do the crime, you will serve the time, and now you will also pay the dime[/quote]
i wonder how long it took him to come up with that ingenious amendment to an already lame sentence
maybe there were rough drafts involved so he could flesh out his thoughts and really think through how he'll craft the perfect poetic justification for not only imprisoning people for minor crimes, but for robbing them of their possessions while they're away as well
the prison system is expensive, and it would be wise to fix this issue, but maybe we should attack the fact that our prisons are privately owned and operated before we start robbing prisoners who are supposed to be in rehabilitation. how is a person supposed to be rehabilitated by being threatened with stabbings and beatings and rape in prison because the security is sub par, only to come home and have to start fresh with life because they're completely broke now too? of course it's not like these private prisons want people to be rehabilitated, even in emails sent to the us govt in response to an attempt to shorten jail times for minor offenses, they admit that having less people imprisoned for shorter amounts of time is extremely negative for their business plan.
[editline]13th December 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Aetna;33703534]I'm surprised facepunch is upset about this. I think our prison system should be like Japan's; 23 hours a day in your cell with nothing but a toilet, book, and bed. You get 1 hour a day to walk in a 10x10 chainlink yard. You serve your time, and you probably won't come back.[/QUOTE]
if that is what japan's prison system is like, it doesn't sound too bad (though i'm pretty sure 23 hours of solitude every day will start to fuck with prisoners heads, they should have some HEAVILY MONITORED AND SAFE socialization time), facepunch is upset because the prisons are now robbing inmates so that by the time they get out, they're even worse off than they would've been before. that isn't how you rehabilitate people.
[editline]13th December 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Andokool12;33696299]Alright guys, time to legalize.
Meth, that is! [B]WOW,[/B] betcha didn't see that one coming![/QUOTE]
ohoho man you're a clever one, you really turned the tables on us~!!!!!
[QUOTE=rosar0980;33693727]Why shouldn't we do this? They committed a crime, forfeited any and all rights they had under the US Constitution[/QUOTE]
uh the point of the whole rights thingy is that they can't be taken away.
it's not a right if driving drunk can get it taken away from you
why don't you read books about natural rights instead of making bad posts
[QUOTE=jgerm529;33695380]Because they are criminals and they don't care that there are actual honest ways to make a living.[/QUOTE]
I love how the state and various television stations just love to dehumanize people in jail. Calling them "criminals" and deeming them less than human is such an easy cop out and psychological tool for these people. Its easy for them to pull this shit because that guy who was thrown in prison for burning a plant who has family and friends is just a "criminal" so we dont have to treat him decently anymore. Congrats, your a victim of this manipulation.
[QUOTE=Key_in_skillee;33696186]OK, bullshit. You are not 18 years old. You're lying about that.[/QUOTE]
How much do you want do bet?
regular cell - spanked every day by a woman in a leather catsuit.
don't pay? you go to a cell where you're spanked every day by a man in a leather catsuit.
Homosexual? Switcheroo.
Things like this all add up to make the world even shittier as time goes on
[QUOTE=rosar0980;33693727]Why shouldn't we do this? They committed a crime, forfeited any and all rights they had under the US Constitution, and the taxpayer is forced to pay for them to get to lay around, watch TV, get a degree, exercise at their leisure, and get three meals a day. I, for one, think this is a good idea. Actually, the jail in AZ with the pink jumpsuits, PB&J all day, and tents is a lot better. There it's about $0.86 to keep a prisoner for a day.[/QUOTE]
Breaking News: Conservative thinks people lose their rights for committing crime
This is so stupid on so many levels that I don't even know where to begin.
Basically if you agree with this, you don't understand anything about the justice system and I would really appreciate it if you don't vote on anything related to it. I'm not mad at you for not understanding, as it is obviously a common issue, but I would just prefer you stay out of the subject. Justice systems aren't difficult to manage if you know what you are doing, but for a justice system to work, you need to go AGAINST what your emotions tell you to do and instead rely on evidence and an understanding of the point of a justice system.
This is so monumentally idiotic, that I hope the person who suggested it dies horribly.
[QUOTE=GunFox;33706751]This is so stupid on so many levels that I don't even know where to begin.
Basically if you agree with this, you don't understand anything about the justice system and I would really appreciate it if you don't vote on anything related to it.[/QUOTE]
I agree with you on the whole, but one tiny, teensy, itsy bitsy thing- you're operating under the assumption that our prison system has a purpose to rehabilitate.
Some people operate under the assumption that by the time you've reached prison (i.e. you committed a felony and it's time to move on up from cozy jail to bumfuck row) that you're not capable nor deserving of being rehabilitated through any methods except your own force of will, and that your time there is entirely to punish and contain you.
It's not "not understanding the justice system" when you have different goals, even if those goals are fucking crazy.
[QUOTE=GunFox;33706751]This is so stupid on so many levels that I don't even know where to begin.
Basically if you agree with this, you don't understand anything about the justice system and I would really appreciate it if you don't vote on anything related to it. I'm not mad at you for not understanding, as it is obviously a common issue, but I would just prefer you stay out of the subject. Justice systems aren't difficult to manage if you know what you are doing, but for a justice system to work, you need to go AGAINST what your emotions tell you to do and instead rely on evidence and an understanding of the point of a justice system.
[B]T[B]his is so monumentally idiotic, that I hope the person who suggested it dies horribly.[/B][/B][/QUOTE]
Some form of sophisticated irony?
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