Fox News: Tea Party Activists Make Last Stand Against Health Care Vote
99 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Lankist;20888205]No it doesn't.
Karl Marx wasn't even alive when this country was founded. And there are plenty of aspects of social policy that are completely compatible with the Constitution.[/QUOTE]
This country was founded on individual liberties. When you restrict the personal freedoms of citizens by forcing them to have health care that to me goes against the principles of the founding fathers and constitution. It does not matter whether the men who created this country knew what to call an idea that is so against individual freedom, because they knew that there are people who would and have restricted personal freedom.
[QUOTE=Lankist;20888243]That's irrelevant, our proposed reform is nothing like your current system.[/QUOTE]
No, he's just refuting Uberman's claim that everyone gets shitty healthcare in countries with UHC.
[QUOTE=Lankist;20888205]No it doesn't.
Karl Marx wasn't even alive when this country was founded. And there are plenty of aspects of social policy that are completely compatible with the Constitution.
There several aspects of socialist policy that defy Constitutional Law, but the entire philosophy is not the polar opposite of America's founding principles.[/QUOTE]
You cannot force people to care for each other.
[QUOTE=FacepunchZen;20888272]This country was founded on individual liberties. When you restrict the personal freedoms of citizens by forcing them to have health care that to me goes against the principles of the founding fathers and constitution. It does not matter whether the men who created this country knew what to call an idea that is so against individual freedom, because they knew that there are people who would and have restricted personal freedom.[/QUOTE]
Social policy does not invariably oppose individualism. Socialism is an economic policy.
You are seriously reaching here.
[QUOTE=FacepunchZen;20888146]Forcing people to have health coverage sounds like socialism to me.[/QUOTE]
you're forced to have an education.
Holy fuck your forced to do it it MUST BE BAD
[QUOTE=FacepunchZen;20888287]You cannot force people to care for each other.[/QUOTE]
Nobody is. You have no idea what this bill does, do you?
[QUOTE=FacepunchZen;20888272]This country was founded on individual liberties. When you restrict the personal freedoms of citizens by forcing them to have health care that to me goes against the principles of the founding fathers and constitution. It does not matter whether the men who created this country knew what to call an idea that is so against individual freedom, because they knew that there are people who would and have restricted personal freedom.[/QUOTE]
What about other civil services such as police, fire department, public infrastructure, and other things you are forced to fund with your taxes? These all, by your logic, would infringe on individual liberties.
And what about the right to live? I shouldn't be left to die because I couldn't afford healthcare.
[QUOTE=Aman V;20888296]you're forced to have an education.
Holy fuck your forced to do it it MUST BE BAD[/QUOTE]
You're forced to have police come to your door if someone shoots you to death.
You're forced to have a fire put out by firemen if your house catches on fire.
Socialism.
Zen basically wants to live in anarachy. Everyone for themselves
[editline]02:09AM[/editline]
[QUOTE=Lankist;20888314]You're forced to have police come to your door if someone shoots you to death.
You're forced to have a fire put out by firemen if your house catches on fire.
Socialism.[/QUOTE]
exactly
Furthermore this bill does not FORCE someone to have insurance. If someone doesn't pay the government premiums they don't have government insurance, that simple.
[QUOTE=Lankist;20888293]Social policy does not invariably oppose individualism. Socialism is an economic policy.
You are seriously reaching here.[/QUOTE]
Socialism encompasses all parts of government. Now you are just changing the argument.
[editline]10:10PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=Lankist;20888332]Furthermore this bill does not FORCE someone to have insurance. If someone doesn't pay the government premiums they don't have government insurance, that simple.[/QUOTE]
They get fined or put in jail buddy.
Don't get me wrong I am vehemently against this piece of shit bill and generally not favorable toward socialized medicine as a whole, but I actually take the time to understand an argument that I fuckin oppose.
[QUOTE=Aman V;20888296]you're forced to have an education.
Holy fuck your forced to do it it MUST BE BAD[/QUOTE]
Especially when you have only a little FUCKING MONEY.
You decide, do you want to pay for the house, food and the car, or do you want to pay for shitty health-care and lose the first 3.
And if you don't pay.
[QUOTE=FacepunchZen;20888336]
They get fined or put in jail buddy.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=FacepunchZen;20888336]Socialism encompasses all parts of government. Now you are just changing the argument.
[editline]10:10PM[/editline]
They get fined or put in jail buddy.[/QUOTE]
What the fuck? you are retarded. First off learn to read. Second, apparently in your mind SOCIALISM is black and white.
You have socialized fire department, you have a socialized police force, you have a socialized postal service.
[QUOTE=Aman V;20888323]Zen basically wants to live in anarachy. Everyone for themselves
[editline]02:09AM[/editline]
exactly[/QUOTE]
Anarchy cannot work by itself, but combined with a democratic (Anarcho-Democracy) or communist (Anarcho-Communism) it insures more than any other system that government (which is a necessary evil) does not infringe on the people's liberties.
[QUOTE=Lankist;20888340]Don't get me wrong I am vehemently against this piece of shit bill and generally not favorable toward socialized medicine as a whole, but I actually take the time to understand an argument that I fuckin oppose.[/QUOTE]
And yeah the bill is pretty shitty. I guess it is better then nothing but this bill is leagues away from "public health care"
[QUOTE=FacepunchZen;20888336]Socialism encompasses all parts of government. Now you are just changing the argument.[/quote]
No it doesn't.
Socialism is economics, like Capitalism, Communism and Feudalism.
Just like Libertarianism, Authoritarianism, Fascism and pseudo-anarchy are social policies.
The political spectrum isn't just right and left, pal. Why do you think we have terms like "anarcho-capitalism?" Because it fucking means a combination of Anarchic social policies and Capitalist economic policies.
[quote]They get fined or put in jail buddy.[/QUOTE]
No they don't.
Nobody goes to jail if they're too poor to pay government insurance premiums.
[QUOTE=FacepunchZen;20888381]Anarchy cannot work by itself, but combined with a democratic (Anarcho-Democracy) or communist (Anarcho-Communism) it insures more than any other system that government (which is a necessary evil) does not infringe on the people's liberties.[/QUOTE]
Pack your shit, go off into a forest and live in your anarcho-democracy with your hick family.
[QUOTE=Aman V;20888372]What the fuck? you are retarded. First off learn to read. Second, apparently in your mind SOCIALISM is black and white.
You have socialized fire department, you have a socialized police force, you have a socialized postal service.[/QUOTE]
Socialized courts, socialized government.
Newsflash, our entire government is socialized. We are not run by the private sector, we are run by the public. We've been living under a degree of socialism since the Articles of Confederation.
[QUOTE=Aman V;20888372]What the fuck? you are retarded. First off learn to read. Second, apparently in your mind SOCIALISM is black and white.
You have socialized fire department, you have a socialized police force, you have a socialized postal service.[/QUOTE]
Socialism is a FORM of GOVERNMENT, yes it may be an IDEA but in this context we are talking about a governmental system. This bill would put us farther towards a socialist form of government.
[QUOTE=FacepunchZen;20888381]Anarchy cannot work by itself, but combined with a democratic (Anarcho-Democracy) or communist (Anarcho-Communism) it insures more than any other system that government (which is a necessary evil) does not infringe on the people's liberties.[/QUOTE]
There is no such thing as anarcho-democracy.
Democracy is a form of government. Anarchy is the lack of government.
[editline]10:15PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=FacepunchZen;20888405]Socialism is a FORM of GOVERNMENT, yes it may be an IDEA but in this context we are talking about a governmental system. This bill would put us farther towards a socialist form of government.[/QUOTE]
No it's not, it's an economic policy of public ownership. Socialized medicine simply means that medicine becomes a part of the public sector, it is not a form of government, it is a type of ownership.
[QUOTE=Aman V;20888390]Pack your shit, go off into a forest and live in your anarcho-democracy with your hick family.[/QUOTE]
Ad hominem is not an effective form of debate.
[QUOTE=FacepunchZen;20888405]Socialism is a FORM of GOVERNMENT, yes it may be an IDEA but in this context we are talking about a governmental system. This bill would put us farther towards a socialist form of government.[/QUOTE]
I don't think you honestly understand what the word socialism means. You talk about it like it is this horrible awful thing that will kill you. Guess you listen to too much Glenn Beck.
"Socialism refers to the various theories of economic organization which advocate either public or direct worker ownership and administration of the means of production and allocation of resources."
Not a form of government.
[QUOTE=Lankist;20888408]There is no such thing as anarcho-democracy.
Democracy is a form of government. Anarchy is the lack of government.
[editline]10:15PM[/editline]
No it's not, it's an economic policy of public ownership.[/QUOTE]
You are right, anarchy is not a form of government, but when paired with democracy or communism becomes one.
[QUOTE=FacepunchZen;20888454]You are right, anarchy is not a form of government, but when paired with democracy or communism becomes one.[/QUOTE]
You have no idea what you are talking about.
[QUOTE=FacepunchZen;20888454]You are right, anarchy is not a form of government, but when paired with democracy or communism becomes one.[/QUOTE]
That's like saying atheism when paired with Christianity becomes a religion.
It isn't anarchy if there is a government.
Additionally, democracy and communism are not opposing ideals. Democracy and monarchy are two opposing ideals. Capitalism and feudalism are two opposing ideals.
Democracy is actually an integral part of theoretical communist government.
[QUOTE=Aman V;20888460]You have no idea what you are talking about.[/QUOTE]
Please don't listen to me, go look up Anarcho-Communism for yourself.
[editline]10:21PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=Lankist;20888492]
Additionally, democracy and communism are not opposing ideals. Democracy and monarchy are two opposing ideals. Capitalism and feudalism are two opposing ideals.
Democracy is actually an integral part of theoretical communist government.[/QUOTE]
And congratulations on not realizing that i have in no way said anything about Democracy and Communism being opposing ideals.
Zen, you're dumber than Glaber or TheAnarchist. Shut the fuck up you ignorant hick.
[editline]07:31PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=FacepunchZen;20888497]Please don't listen to me, go look up Anarcho-Communism for yourself.
[editline]10:21PM[/editline]
And congratulations on not realizing that i have in no way said anything about Democracy and Communism being opposing ideals.[/QUOTE]
Trust me, we won't listen to you despite the fact most of us understand Anarcho governments better than you do. You're arguing economy, law, and government with lanklist. You're going to lose a bloody fucking battle.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;20888686]Zen, you're dumber than Glaber or TheAnarchist. Shut the fuck up you ignorant hick.
[editline]07:31PM[/editline]
You're going to lose a bloody fucking battle.[/QUOTE]
I am not fighting this battle to be right, i am fighting to refine my debating skills and develop my ideas for future debates. If I was as spineless as you I would go along with what ever he said as if i was ignorant to the truth.
[editline]10:36PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;20888686]Zen, you're dumber than Glaber or TheAnarchist. Shut the fuck up you ignorant hick.
[editline]07:31PM[/editline]
Trust me, we won't listen to you despite the fact most of us understand Anarcho governments better than you do. You're arguing economy, law, and government with lanklist. You're going to lose a bloody fucking battle.[/QUOTE]
Call me an ignorant hick, that only gets my cock harder.
[QUOTE=FacepunchZen;20888181]it stands against everything this country was founded on.[/QUOTE]
Relevant: [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vaDvSbLRL3s[/media]
Even though I disagree with you.
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