“Six Strikes” Anti-Piracy Scheme Starts Monday in the US
237 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Anal Rat;39696989]I live in China, don't give a fuck, can't get me.[/QUOTE]
You sure must be glad that, even though you have to go through a bunch of government censorship with the Great Firewall, at least you can pirate games and movies. America sure is fascist.
Besides, this isn't supposed to be aimed at foreign countries. Private businesses are making deals with other private businesses, this isn't like the entertainment industry is going to destroy literally every file sharing site ever.
So millions of bittorrent users will be monitored? fuck
looks like I am done with my linux distros.
Unless these threats are not as bad as they seem. Hopefully there will be a mainstream solution to this.
I've always tried to think of a solution to solve the issue of game piracy, but it always boils down to people being too entitled/lazy/poor/angry/whatever to buy games. Suffice to say, it's hard as hell to change that.
I believe that the service providers are within their rights, it's just that this isn't the right way to deal with the issue of piracy. It sure as hell isn't as bad as suing people who download games or albums, but it still blows.
[QUOTE=BenJammin';39697024]So millions of bittorrent users will be monitored? fuck
looks like I am done with my linux distros.
Unless these threats are not as bad as they seem. Hopefully there will be a mainstream solution to this.[/QUOTE]
Common sense tells me they'll just be monitoring the copyright torrents, not every single torrent.
I don't get it, how is this any different than what they currently do now? ISPs are not actively scanning every single torrent people access for infringing ones, right? it still relies on the content owners to report people (so private trackers are still somehwat safe)
[QUOTE=genkaz92;39696614]
1. Make the paid products more convenient to get than the pirated free ones.
[B]2. Stop using business practices of deception, greed, and criminally high price tags.[/B]
[B]3. Make the products actually worth their money, instead of being worth 1/10th of the amount[/B]
4. Once again, stop wasting idiotic amount of resources on a battle that will absolutely never be won.
[/QUOTE]
. Issue is that those things are entirely subjective.I might find some business practices acceptable and a non-issue, but the next guy won't and will use that as justification for piracy.
Your other solutions make a lot of sense, but people will still pirate regardless, and it's not very financially viable to do all this jumping-through-hoops shit to get a handful of customers. Even if games are like, 5 dollars, there's always going to be that one kid who pirates because his mom won't let him buy games.
Hell, people will still want shit for free because it's easy as shit to do and there's pretty much no repercussions. People are going to pirate games if they..
a) don't want to pay money for it,
b) are "boycotting it" but playing it anyways
c) can't obtain it where they live
d) want to try it out without paying full price
e) don't want to support publisher/dev for whatever reason
What happened to fp's stand that piracy isn't a problem for producers who have good business practices?
"People most often pirate things they weren't going to buy in the first place, and a number of people buy stuff later because they happened to like it after getting to try it."
[editline]damnit[/editline]
don't give me the bullshit "but theres some people who pirate because x". There are millions of possible reasons to pirate
[QUOTE=milkandcooki;39697122]. Issue is that those things are entirely subjective.I might find some business practices acceptable and a non-issue, but the next guy won't and will use that as justification for piracy.
Your other solutions make a lot of sense, but people will still pirate regardless, and it's not very financially viable to do all this jumping-through-hoops shit to get a handful of customers. Even if games are like, 5 dollars, there's always going to be that one kid who pirates because his mom won't let him buy games.
Hell, people will still want shit for free because it's easy as shit to do and there's pretty much no repercussions. People are going to pirate games if they..
a) don't want to pay money for it,
b) are "boycotting it" but playing it anyways
c) can't obtain it where they live
d) want to try it out without paying full price
e) don't want to support publisher/dev for whatever reason[/QUOTE]
I completely agree, which is why I specified that by "solving" it, I implied keeping it to a minimum. The majority of human practices are subjective, but there will always be a general consensus, and reasonable average of people that recognize when something is ridiculous.
Sure, there will be some people out there who will pay a 100$ for a perfectly average loaf of bread, but the majority would... politely disagree with such a notion. It is all about the main chunk of people here, it is never possible to make everyone fully agree with you. If you do, then you are probably no longer among humans.
There will always be exceptions, and there will always be people who pirate, even with the best possible official approach, otherwise many extremely user friendly indie games would not be pirated.
[editline]24th February 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=nessman;39697216]What happened to fp's stand that piracy isn't a problem for producers who have good business practices?
"People most often pirate things they weren't going to buy in the first place, and a number of people buy stuff later because they happened to like it after getting to try it."[/QUOTE]
Something happened to it? It seems to me that it is still very much with us.
[QUOTE=nessman;39697216]What happened to fp's stand that piracy isn't a problem for producers who have good business practices?
"People most often pirate things they weren't going to buy in the first place, and a number of people buy stuff later because they happened to like it after getting to try it."[/QUOTE]
It isn't a problem though. The people that make the movies that get pirated are already fucking loaded with cash at the end of the day. They just want more.
[QUOTE=legolover122;39697258]It isn't a problem though. The people that make the movies that get pirated are already fucking loaded with cash at the end of the day. They just want more.[/QUOTE]
Because they're businesses. The goal is to bring in profit then make more profitable things with that profit.
[QUOTE=CoolKingKaso;39696224]Fuck, I better change my router password; too many people use it.[/QUOTE]
Is it fuck?
When every company in the industry seeks to fuck customers, what do you do? Where's the free market now?
Now watch these selected ISPs stock drop :v:
[QUOTE=laserguided;39697266]Because they're businesses. The goal is to bring in profit then make more profitable things with that profit.[/QUOTE]
And i'm all for protecting ones property. But when you are already doing incredibly well, there is no need to rush things to the point where they are using fucking IP addresses to find and penalize people.
oh so now 'merica wants to ban piracy worldwide. stupid yankees should realise that they aren't kings of the world
[QUOTE=ewitwins;39696398]Gentlemen:
[URL]http://www.noodlevpn.com/usa_vpn.html[/URL][/QUOTE]
Why is the Canadian flag the Japanese flag?
[QUOTE=EddieLTU;39697302]oh so now 'merica wants to ban piracy worldwide. stupid yankees should realise that they aren't kings of the world[/QUOTE]
Because a few fucks in a few groups represents the entirety of american citizens and/or it's government.
So, how long do you guys think it will take to get this system running, as opposed to how long it will take for the outrage to reach a point where they'll have to shut it down?
[QUOTE=Disgruntled;39697452]So, how long do you guys think it will take to get this system running, as opposed to how long it will take for the outrage to reach a point where they'll have to shut it down?[/QUOTE]
The ratio between the two will hopefully be greatly unequal. In other words, as soon as they get it up and running, they will be chased away by crowds of people with torches and pitchforks, who suddenly broke in their offices by a battering ram.
[QUOTE=EddieLTU;39697302]oh so now 'merica wants to ban piracy worldwide. stupid yankees should realise that they aren't kings of the world[/QUOTE]
Who let you out of /pol/.
[QUOTE=Ericson666;39697023]You sure must be glad that, even though you have to go through a bunch of government censorship with the Great Firewall, at least you can pirate games and movies. America sure is fascist.
Besides, this isn't supposed to be aimed at foreign countries. Private businesses are making deals with other private businesses, this isn't like the entertainment industry is going to destroy literally every file sharing site ever.[/QUOTE]I use VPN. Says I'm in LA every day.
That's five more strikes than I expected.
Welcome to the Police States of America.
Glad I live in Vietnam. The Gorvernment gives no shit about software piracy.
Hell, all shops around here sell [B]only[/B] pirated copies.
[QUOTE=rikimaru6811;39697624]
Hell, all shops around here sell [B]only[/B] pirated copies.[/QUOTE]
That is how you make money out of nothing.
Is it just me, or do the majority of gold members have the dumb rating bound to their space key?
No scout is just rating everyone dumb for whatever reason
[QUOTE=archangel125;39697592]Welcome to the Police States of America.[/QUOTE]
Is that a Greenday song or something?
Genkaz, have you ever worked with software? Genuine question here, because your proposed solutions seem to me to be rather out of touch with actual software development.
[QUOTE=genkaz92;39696614]1. Make the paid products more convenient to get than the pirated free ones. [/QUOTE]
First off, how would you propose doing this?
Currently, for a DRM-free product, it is more convenient to pirate than to pay. Instead of needing to go get a credit card or log in to a Paypal account before you download, you just click a torrent button and presto, good to go.
The only way actually buying becomes more convenient is if you have to bend over backwards to make a pirated version work- in other words, if it has stringent DRM that is difficult to circumvent, so that buying legitimately means less hassle. You're basically saying that software needs to have restrictive DRM in order to combat piracy, yet I very much doubt that you would be happy with heavy DRM on their games and software, put there solely to try to make legitimate purchases more enticing.
This is not the company's fault. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Put DRM on a product and people complain about having to deal with DRM. Have no DRM, and the game is now easier to pirate than to buy legitimately and piracy skyrockets. Just look at some of the stats for Hotline Miami.
[QUOTE=genkaz92;39696614]2. Stop using business practices of deception, greed, and criminally high price tags.
3. Make the products actually worth their money, instead of being worth 1/10th of the amount[/QUOTE]
These go hand-in-hand. Do you know how expensive it is to develop software? Killzone 2's budget [URL="http://www.gamespot.com/forums/topic/25720468"]surpassed $40 million[/URL], and it sold a total of [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killzone_2#Reception_and_sales"]about one and a half million units at best[/URL]. At $50 per unit, that would be just $35 million to pay the publisher, retailers, stockists, and all the other ancillary costs in development. But they didn't make $50 on every copy sold- no, that might be the retail price or close to it, but wholesale prices on the game are closer to $30, sometimes even lower. The publisher probably only got about around $40 to $45 million, barely breaking even. This was for a fairly popular franchise- whereas if Dead Space 3 doesn't sell five million units, [URL="http://www.cinemablend.com/games/EA-Says-Dead-Space-3-Has-Sell-5-Million-Survive-43629.html"]it won't even be viable as a franchise[/URL].
Developing games is extremely expensive. Advertising them is even more expensive. And it's not just games- a lot of people cite the high price of Photoshop and other Adobe products. But have you looked at the prices for students? This isn't a game you'll play once, maybe twice, and leave on a shelf. These are professional tools developed over the course of a decade (or more) and intended for use in extremely competitive fields, where they'll be used day in and day out for years continuously. In the long term it's chump change for a company. For a student, they have plenty of discounts. The price is not outrageous for what you're getting.
You will never be able to get a AAA title for $10 on release from a company that intends to remain in business. When content like additional campaigns and mission packs takes a team of 20 professionals three months to develop, you won't be getting it for free on release day, even if it was developed concurrently with the original game.
And really, criminally high price tags? How much would you pay for a ticket to a two-hour movie, compared to a game that might last you ten, twenty, or even thirty or forty hours? How much would you pay for a concert, or a sports ticket? Gaming is cheap. A dollar for a song is cheap. A few bucks for an online movie rental is cheap. You have plenty of extremely affordable options, there is nothing wrong with how they're priced.
[QUOTE=genkaz92;39696614]4. Once again, stop wasting idiotic amount of resources on a battle that will absolutely never be won. [/QUOTE]
As long as self-entitled jackasses try to pin their own criminal behavior on other people, it's a battle that will continually be fought. And, like it or not, the anti-piracy advocates are winning. DRM-intensive services like Steam and Origin are gaining ground, and now companies like the RIAA are working more closely with ISPs to monitor torrent traffic.
There's a lot of positive improvement to be made but if you think companies charge high prices and want money for Day 1 DLC just because they can, then you haven't worked within a hundred feet of the games industry. It's a cutthroat field where a million units sold or not sold can be the difference between staying in business for another two years or a company going bankrupt and all the employees laid off.
And for the love of god, don't try to blame piracy on anyone else. You alone make the decision on whether or not to pirate. If a company has bad policies, if a game has horrendous DRM, if you don't want to pay $60 on release, grow a backbone and just walk away. You'll live without it. But if you decide to pirate anyways, well, that's on nobody but yourself, and don't try to blame the publisher for your choices. I wouldn't have such a problem with piracy if it weren't for the people who insist that it's the publisher's fault that they pirate and try to absolve themselves of any wrongdoing.
I use a VPN that's based in Canada, so I'm fine, as long as Canadian ISPs don't follow suit.
If somebody can get something for free, easily, and not get caught, they will most likely do so. Especially if they have a lower income and can't afford to spend money on entertainment that often. College students, poor adults, tech-smart kids, those in third world countries or places where entertainment is ridiculously expensive, they are the usual suspects.
All this is going to do is scare the casual torrent user away. VPNs or Usenet are where the more experienced pirates will go. It might be successful for stopping the tech-illiterate or the people who only know about torrenting from some nerd they know but everyone else is going to pay a cheap monthly fee or learn how to use Usenet. And if any anonymous hosting services spring up, then the casual pirate is just going to use those.
[editline]24th February 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=catbarf;39697695] And for the love of god, don't try to blame piracy on anyone else. You alone make the decision on whether or not to pirate. If a company has bad policies, if a game has horrendous DRM, if you don't want to pay $60 on release, grow a backbone and just walk away. You'll live without it. But if you decide to pirate anyways, well, that's on nobody but yourself, and don't try to blame the publisher for your choices. I wouldn't have such a problem with piracy if it weren't for the people who insist that it's the publisher's fault that they pirate and try to absolve themselves of any wrongdoing.[/QUOTE]
I think you're expecting too much. Not many people have the willpower to just "not have something" that they can easily get for free, just because it's unethical. Not everybody's got a middle class budget where they can even afford to go to the movies. I have trouble making enough money to buy food, and with all my loans I've taken out to go to college and eventually grad school I suspect I won't have an entertainment budget for a long time. But there are people way less off then me, and those people might also have no qualms about pirating.
I don't pirate games anymore. In fact, I don't do much pirating at all, except for the occasional album for myself or movie for my parents. I know pirating is ethically wrong, and I regret doing it sometimes. But piracy will never go away. Unless you get some big brother type surveillance then there will always be ways of anonymizing yourself and downloading illegally.
When DRM affects paying customers, then there's no excuse for it. I do, however, understand the importance of it. People who pirate and have the means to buy a game, if unable to pirate during the launch window, will probably buy it. Games that launch without DRM, while noble, end up suffering because of it, because there are few people who care about ethics and also pirate. The people who can't afford a game will just end up waiting for a crack, or better yet will save up for it. At the same time, if piracy is harder to do, then the latter will usually be the preferred choice for most.
So, I guess this ISP interference is a good thing, because all it does is make it harder to pirate, but it's still possible for the tech-savvy.
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