• Motor racing-Endurance series calls time on 'Grid Girls'
    69 replies, posted
They should do what Powerpuff Football does. Have chick racers being cheered on by dudes wearing makeup and pink dresses.
[QUOTE=spiritlol;47454001]Why not just add grid guys?[/QUOTE] Sign me in :v:
[QUOTE=DoctorSalt;47450565]The whole "they agreed to the job" still doesn't mean they show stay there, per se. The nature of hegemony is that it coerces people to agree with it through use of power and subtle influence. As an extreme example blacksploitation films fall under this.[/QUOTE] What ?
Personally, I'd rather they added "Grid Guys" rather than removing "Grid Girls".
Grid Girls are bad because it alienates girls to racing, making it seem that their only place on the grid in in a bikini, not in a car.
[QUOTE=OogalaBoogal;47459460]Grid Girls are bad because it alienates girls to racing, making it seem that their only place on the grid in in a bikini, not in a car.[/QUOTE] See, no I don't buy that, because if a lassie actually thought that then she would presumably be a lobotomy victim to think, "That person is the same sex as me and they're doing that job, therefore I am capable of only doing that job, not driving the car." Like seriously can you explain that logic to me? Cause I mean as a guy I don't feel like that when I see a guy doing literally any job so why would girls do that doing that with any job, but this one in particular?
[QUOTE=Nanamil;47456335]What ?[/QUOTE] I'm not saying I disagree, I'm saying the rationale isn't air tight and someone agreeing to something doesn't mean there aren't subtle influences, hence the comparison. I care about tight logical arguments.
[QUOTE=OogalaBoogal;47459460]Grid Girls are bad because it alienates girls to racing, making it seem that their only place on the grid in in a bikini, not in a car.[/QUOTE] If a girl has so little passion for something that a simple lack of female presence there discourages her from doing it, then she might not actually really love doing it. Obama didn't stop campaigning for presidency because there are no black presidents. Neither will Hillary Clinton because there are no female presidents. Would you tell a fat guy who wants to lose weight that it is okay not to go to gym or public swimming pool or jog outside because there are no other fat people there? If you really want to do something, and something like this prevents you from doing it, then you might not really want to do it really. And that is something that these women seem to know [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_female_NASCAR_drivers[/url]
[QUOTE=Impact1986;47466544]If a girl has so little passion for something that a simple lack of female presence there discourages her from doing it, then she might not actually really love doing it. Obama didn't stop campaigning for presidency because there are no black presidents. Neither will Hillary Clinton because there are no female presidents. Would you tell a fat guy who wants to lose weight that it is okay not to go to gym or public swimming pool or jog outside because there are no other fat people there? If you really want to do something, and something like this prevents you from doing it, then you might not really want to do it really. And that is something that these women seem to know [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_female_NASCAR_drivers[/url][/QUOTE] You'd be surprised to see how much influence this sort of thing can have on someone's mind. "I like to do this, but I shouldn't because it's a boys/girls thing" is really common to hear, and there are people who are legitimately into some hobbies and who can't do anything more with it because the hobby in question is perceived as "not for them" so they back off. It's a vicious circle that needs breaking on every step of it. Booth girls are an issue because it entrenches the concept that stuff like racing and gaming (see gaming conventions before the repeated bans on booth girls) are boy things and that girls can only access them if they stand to the side and look pretty rather than actually take part in it.
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;47466569]You'd be surprised to see how much influence this sort of thing can have on someone's mind. "I like to do this, but I shouldn't because it's a boys/girls thing" is really common to hear, and there are people who are legitimately into some hobbies and who can't do anything more with it because the hobby in question is perceived as "not for them" so they back off. It's a vicious circle that needs breaking on every step of it. Booth girls are an issue because it entrenches the concept that stuff like racing and gaming (see gaming conventions before the repeated bans on booth girls) are boy things and that girls can only access them if they stand to the side and look pretty rather than actually take part in it.[/QUOTE] Getting rid of Grid Girls or Booth Girls wont change a thing
[QUOTE=Impact1986;47466579]Getting rid of Grid Girls or Booth Girls wont change a thing[/QUOTE] Of course if it's the only decision taken it won't change but it's a step in the right direction. It's a pretty bad case of circular logic that wouldn't be too hard to break if we actually cared. I'm speaking from a gaming perspective here but I assume it's not exactly different from motorsports since it's always been portrayed as a men's thing. Every time I hear of a woman who does get through professionally they're almost always portrayed as a defiant rebel who's a daring exception rather than someone who just wants to live off their passion and that's kind of an issue.
Well realistically then the only way to actually achieve an inclusive feel would be to not get rid of Grid Girls, and just add in Grid Guys as well. I mean that's the point right? Inclusiveness? So how does getting rid of one make it inclusive? We should be getting huge buff chiseled dudes to get in there with the chicks. Also what's with all the people taking the view that motorsports or anything whatsoever, is a guy thing? Yeah, there's a lot of dudes driving, maybe because guys are more willing to put themselves inside an engine with wheels and throw themselves at tight corners at 80 miles per hour when most sensible people wouldn't do that. Guys are naturally hard wired for more risk taking strategies.
Why not just hire guys as well? Creates more jobs and others get to keep em.
[QUOTE=Rapscallion92;47467280]Well realistically then the only way to actually achieve an inclusive feel would be to not get rid of Grid Girls, and just add in Grid Guys as well. I mean that's the point right? Inclusiveness? So how does getting rid of one make it inclusive? We should be getting huge buff chiseled dudes to get in there with the chicks. Also what's with all the people taking the view that motorsports or anything whatsoever, is a guy thing? Yeah, there's a lot of dudes driving, maybe because guys are more willing to put themselves inside an engine with wheels and throw themselves at tight corners at 80 miles per hour when most sensible people wouldn't do that. Guys are naturally hard wired for more risk taking strategies.[/QUOTE] Citation needed. Can't base these generalizations off a reality that's inherently biased. For instance, "White people are smarter than other races as evidenced by us having all the wealth/education"
[QUOTE=DoctorSalt;47493420]Citation needed. Can't base these generalizations off a reality that's inherently biased. For instance, "White people are smarter than other races as evidenced by us having all the wealth/education"[/QUOTE] [url]https://www.amfirstbooks.com/IntroPages/NonToolbarTopics/IdeologicalQuiz/Quiz-3-Commentary/IdeolQuiz_Answer_02.html[/url] [IMG]https://www.amfirstbooks.com/IntroPages/NonToolbarTopics/IdeologicalQuiz/Quiz-3-Commentary/Commentary_Art/IQ_graph_racial%20-NVangd20060122.jpg[/IMG] There is an IQ gap between white and black people. There have been studies about this in the 90's, but nowadays no one even dares to try to make a study simply because they would be called racist and lose their job, like Jason Richwine. [url]http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2013/05/jason_richwine_hispanics_and_iqs_the_heritage_foundation_scholar_began_researching.html[/url]
[QUOTE=Pretiacruento;47449992]It's a vestige from a bygone era, where they were supposed to bring in some sex appeal to the sport. Back in the '40s and '50s, there were no women to be seen anywhere in a racetrack. That all changed in the late '60s. [URL="http://selvedgeyard.com/2010/08/11/old-school-hurst-girls/"]Here's Linda Vaughn, Miss Hurst Golden Shifter[/URL], an icon in '60s American racing, you could see her in NASCAR, Indycar and NHRA events. But grid girls are supposed to stand for something more than just hot girls in skimpy outfits, [URL="http://www.theaustingrandprix.com/news/2012/11/9/the-history-of-the-grid-girl.html"]here's a good read on the significance of grid girls[/URL], and [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_queen"]some history about the practice[/URL]. I knew there were no pit girls prior to the '60s, but I didn't know it all started in Japan![/QUOTE] Nowadays sex appeal is offensive. It's like we're back in the 20's.
[QUOTE=Ragekipz;47495168]Nowadays sex appeal is offensive. It's like we're back in the 20's.[/QUOTE] How can you with all honesty say that sex appeal is offensive in 2015? Is there anything not sold or marketed through sex appeal? [editline]10th April 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Pretiacruento;47449992]It's a vestige from a bygone era, where they were supposed to bring in some sex appeal to the sport. Back in the '40s and '50s, there were no women to be seen anywhere in a racetrack. That all changed in the late '60s. [URL="http://selvedgeyard.com/2010/08/11/old-school-hurst-girls/"]Here's Linda Vaughn, Miss Hurst Golden Shifter[/URL], an icon in '60s American racing, you could see her in NASCAR, Indycar and NHRA events. But grid girls are supposed to stand for something more than just hot girls in skimpy outfits, [URL="http://www.theaustingrandprix.com/news/2012/11/9/the-history-of-the-grid-girl.html"]here's a good read on the significance of grid girls[/URL], and [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_queen"]some history about the practice[/URL]. I knew there were no pit girls prior to the '60s, but I didn't know it all started in Japan![/QUOTE] Yeah I don't know. Reading those two articles I can't see much beyond "here are some hot girls in skimpy outfits for your entertainment".
[QUOTE=Fetret;47495241]How can you with all honesty say that sex appeal is offensive in 2015? Is there anything not sold or marketed through sex appeal?[/QUOTE] What I meant is, people are getting offended over a pair of boobs way more than they should.
[QUOTE=Ragekipz;47495290]What I meant is, people are getting offended over a pair of boobs way more than they should.[/QUOTE] Eh I might have to give you that (not that it is going back to 20s but the progress of acceptance of nudity seems to have slowed down/reversed in the past 10-20 years), but people being offended by a pair of breasts has absolutely nothing to do with this debate.
[QUOTE=Impact1986;47495109][url]https://www.amfirstbooks.com/IntroPages/NonToolbarTopics/IdeologicalQuiz/Quiz-3-Commentary/IdeolQuiz_Answer_02.html[/url] [IMG]https://www.amfirstbooks.com/IntroPages/NonToolbarTopics/IdeologicalQuiz/Quiz-3-Commentary/Commentary_Art/IQ_graph_racial%20-NVangd20060122.jpg[/IMG] There is an IQ gap between white and black people. There have been studies about this in the 90's, but nowadays no one even dares to try to make a study simply because they would be called racist and lose their job, like Jason Richwine. [url]http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2013/05/jason_richwine_hispanics_and_iqs_the_heritage_foundation_scholar_began_researching.html[/url][/QUOTE] I remember reading about one study where the guy shut it down saying something along the lines of "It's best we don't know some things".
And yet there has been zero evidence of a genetic cause for this, thus the evidence points towards societal causes. For instance, black adopted children raised in other households have higher test scores. Their genes didn't change because they were adopted. [quote] --Scientists have not yet identified most of the genes that affect test performance, so we have no direct genetic evidence regarding innate cognitive differences between blacks and whites. But we have accumulated a fair amount of indirect evidence since 1970. Most of it suggests that whether children live in a "black" or "white" environment has far more impact on their test performance than the number of Africans or Europeans in their family tree. [url]https://www.nytimes.com/books/first/j/jencks-gap.html[/url] [/quote] Another interesting source: [quote] Another study, of black West Indian (Caribbean) children and English children raised in an orphanage in England, found that the Caribbean children had higher IQs than those from England, with mixed-race children scoring in between. But were the black children given more attention by orphanage staff? Were particularly intelligent Caribbeans emigrating to England for better economic opportunity? Finally, a study of black children adopted by white versus black families in America showed that the black children raised by whites had higher IQ scores than those raised by blacks—suggesting an environmental cause. When the studies are taken together, the many caveats involved with the role of genetics and environment make it hard to draw firm conclusions. But the balance of data suggests no racial difference in intelligence. Read more: Race and Intelligence - Genes and intelligence: a clear verdict, Race and IQ: not so clear - Children, Black, White, and Difference - JRank Articles [url]http://psychology.jrank.org/pages/526/Race-Intelligence.html#ixzz3X9xWlS2H[/url] [url]http://psychology.jrank.org/pages/526/Race-Intelligence.html[/url] [/quote] [editline]13th April 2015[/editline] By all means, find me conclusive evidence of genetic causes of IQ difference.
[QUOTE=DoctorSalt;47515783]And yet there has been zero evidence of a genetic cause for this, thus the evidence points towards societal causes. For instance, black adopted children raised in other households have higher test scores. Their genes didn't change because they were adopted. Another interesting source: [editline]13th April 2015[/editline] By all means, find me conclusive evidence of genetic causes of IQ difference.[/QUOTE] We could if people were allowed to make objective studies about it without backlash :v: The only people crazy enough to in this PC environment always bigots which leads to bias in their results. Its likely the standard deviation of genetics on IQ would be so large that it wouldn't really fucking matter though.
[QUOTE=bunguer;47449819]I don't get it. Those girls were there because they wanted, now they have just lost a job, what's the progress here? Attractive people have always been used to sell products. This is a classic case of "you can do whatever you want except the jobs I don't like you doing".[/QUOTE] Its more of people who think that all women who work these kind of jobs are "Forced" to do this, but in reality, they enjoy it a lot. I mean hell, if i was a guy that was ripped, i would enjoy walking around and looking good.
[QUOTE=spiritlol;47518524]We could if people were allowed to make objective studies about it without backlash :v: The only people crazy enough to in this PC environment always bigots which leads to bias in their results. Its likely the standard deviation of genetics on IQ would be so large that it wouldn't really fucking matter though.[/QUOTE] The other issue is that if we assume there is a genetic difference, what caused it? Because my guess would be hundreds of years of slavery and death where white slave owners tried to maximize income and killed the weaker workers.
[QUOTE=Impact1986;47495109]racism[/QUOTE] Muslims, blacks and the state of Israel. You hate 'em all, eh?
[QUOTE=DoctorSalt;47520820]The other issue is that if we assume there is a genetic difference, what caused it? Because my guess would be hundreds of years of slavery and death where white slave owners tried to maximize income and killed the weaker workers.[/QUOTE] The way you word it, it sounds more like centuries were spent breeding super black people.
[QUOTE=DoctorSalt;47520820]The other issue is that if we assume there is a genetic difference, what caused it? Because my guess would be hundreds of years of slavery and death where white slave owners tried to maximize income and killed the weaker workers.[/QUOTE] Except weaker doesn't mean more intelligent, and stronger doesn't mean less intelligent.
Could it be that IQ tests favor educated people and there are more highly educated whites than there are highly educated blacks due to cultural issues in the United States? (yes!) Neither race is naturally more or less intelligent.
^ Definitely. My first source goes into detail about that.
[QUOTE=DoctorSalt;47515783]And yet there has been zero evidence of a genetic cause for this, thus the evidence points towards societal causes. For instance, black adopted children raised in other households have higher test scores. Their genes didn't change because they were adopted. Another interesting source: [editline]13th April 2015[/editline] By all means, find me conclusive evidence of genetic causes of IQ difference.[/QUOTE] When did I ever state that it is only genetical? Even the link I posted showed that it is both environmental and genetical influence.
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