Hyperloop One inks a deal to evaluate potential first ‘Hyperloop cargo offloader’ in Dubai port
40 replies, posted
[QUOTE=wewt!;50896909]The Hyperloop is something I am really doubtful about. The very concept of such a long piece of tubing being in a vaccuum without the temperature warping it and causing a leak seems unlikely. Not to mention the disasterous effect depressurization would have on the entire tube [I]and[/I] the stations on both ends. Also the proposed turbine propultion system doesn't make any sense in such a low pressure enviroment. It just looks ridiculously expensive and dangerous.[/QUOTE]
its just some kind of large infastructure pipe when you come down to it, sure its larger than usual but nothing obscenely large that hasnt been built manufactured before, the trains themselves were going to be electricly driven, the turbine would just pass air through the car.
idk if dubi is really using it to its full advantage because they have the land to just build a more practical rail system but its at least being built
[editline]17th August 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=AnonymaPizza;50898563]You're not too far of there.
[video=youtube;RNFesa01llk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNFesa01llk[/video][/QUOTE]
a lot of these issues will have been revised and dealt with before its built, this isnt some billion dollar boondoggle this has teams of engineers behind it, expansion will be dealt with as well as propulsion as this gets revised. the original document was all rough theoretical calculations
Why don't we build maglev trains that various countries already have? Seems much more efficient, cheaper, no vacuum so no chance of a huge disaster occuring, ect.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;50900926]Dubai is heavily corrupt and full of ineptitude, as are the other arab oil states in the area including Saudi Arabia. the latter of these countries is likely to go bankrupt in the next five years
they largely rely on western expats (most of them rejects from the west who couldn't make it here) paid exorbitant wages to run industries that these countries don't have the human capital to maintain, let alone establish. they're fake oil economies that rely heavily on the direct or indirect pillar of oil. once it runs out the expats will leave, they'll go bankrupt, and then sink back into the irrelevance their inbred aristocratic rulers have condemned them to for the past half century.
also I'm pretty sure it's slave labour. their passports are confiscated and they are forced to work without wages often.
minus when the overworked sewer network collapses and sewage seeps out into the streets and beaches
plus virtually all water is generated by unsustainably expensive desalination, any damage to the infrastructure of which would precipitate a crisis within days due to the fact there are 0 water reserves
also you only get some decent treatment if you're white. even then most expats get their passport taken off them during the duration of their stay and a lot of control is put over them. the absence of any kind of bankruptcy law means that people can be thrown into prison for their debt too
oh yeah the city has virtually no proper drainage either so the rare times it does rain the streets are inundated with water[/QUOTE]
can i get some sources on this? and yes, the drainage thing happens in EVERY. ARAB. COUNTRY. you clearly dont live anywhere near the middle east, your in london, where it rains every 12 seconds. the middle east; when it rains, it floods. decent treatment if your white? again, you clearly havent lived anywhere near there; racism died around 20 years ago, the consitution of Dubai (if you can call it that) literally says that everyone must be treated regardless of race, nationality or beliefs (which is true in dubai) however racism still happens just like in the US
'virtually all water is generated by desalination' no shit sherlock they live in the fucking desert, they arent going to get it by rain water or a lake, there are water reserves, very few however.
'overworked sewer network' i guess the US is the worst tourist destination ever, everyone pack your bags:
slave labour: they are made aware that there passport is going to get consficated prior to arrival if they are doing this work, and it depends on the company, it isnt DUBAI LAW like you think it is. the payments not arriving is a problem, but if workers protest which sometimes they do, usually the ministry of labor will raise a eyebrow and ask them to pay to avoid a pr disaster
largely rely on western expats: dubai does rely on tourism, but the rest of the arab states? not really. also, i highly doubt people who live in dubai are social outcasts, they make a lot more money due to not many people wanting to travel overseas, and hey: some people want money.
anyway, lets not derail this thread any further. take this to PM's?
[QUOTE=nightlord;50900577]Where does the design of it get mentioned in his video?
He's addressed the turbine comment in the 2nd video and you're wrong about that, it does provide thrust:
[media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDwe2M-LDZQ[/media][/QUOTE]
Go read my previous comment. The turbine provides air for the air bearing, and then bypasses some out the rear for marginal thrust. Thrust doesn't always mean [i]thrust[/i]. It's a bypass to remove drag by sucking up the pressure buildup on the speeding capsule. It's only there if you have air bearings on your capsule. Most designs for the Hyperloop that Thunderf00t ignored do not even have it. Go look at MITHyperloop and Delft Hyperloop. Both use maglev and do not have a axial compressor on the front.
[url]http://www.mithyperloop.org/levitation.html[/url]
[url]http://www.delfthyperloop.nl[/url]
[editline]17th August 2016[/editline]
The Hyperloop paper also says it uses linear motors. The compressed air bypass is clearly secondary.
[Quote]4.1.6. Propulsion
In order to propel the vehicle at the required travel speed, an advanced linear
motor system is being developed to accelerate the capsule above 760 mph
(1,220 kph) at a maximum of 1g for comfort. The moving motor element (rotor)
will be located on the vehicle for weight savings and power requirements while
the tube will incorporate the stationary motor element (stator) which powers
the vehicle. More details can be found in the section 4.3.
Hyperloop Passenger Capsule
The overall propulsion system weight attached to the capsule is expected to be
near 2,900 lb (1,300 kg) including the support and emergency braking system.
The overall cost of the system is targeted to be no more than $125,000. This
brings the total capsule weight near 33,000 lb (15,000 kg) including passenger
and luggage weight.[/Quote]
Doesn't even mention compressor thrust.
[QUOTE=Maadz;50901899]can i get some sources on this? and yes, the drainage thing happens in EVERY. ARAB. COUNTRY. you clearly dont live anywhere near the middle east, your in london, where it rains every 12 seconds. the middle east; when it rains, it floods. decent treatment if your white?[/quote]
[url]http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/reo/2015/mcd/eng/pdf/menap1015.pdf[/url]
[url]http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/saudi-arabia-could-be-bankrupt-within-five-years-imf-predicts-a6706821.html[/url]
despite attempts to diversify the economy and become less dependent on oil, projects aimed at alleviating that for the past 40 years have failed
also the drainage issue wouldn't be as much of an issue if it wasn't for the fact it also applied to the sanitation system. originally sewage was trucked out of the city and dumped. now there's a rudimentary sewage network but it doesn't cover the whole city, and waste processing is still woefully awful as trucks still carry it out:
[url]http://www.thenational.ae/uae/kicking-up-a-stink-sewage-tanker-spill-is-final-straw-for-jvt-residents[/url]
[quote]again, you clearly havent lived anywhere near there; racism died around 20 years ago, the consitution of Dubai (if you can call it that) literally says that everyone must be treated regardless of race, nationality or beliefs (which is true in dubai) however racism still happens just like in the US[/quote]
except it's to a far worse extent than in the united states, with south asians in particular targeted
[url]http://www.thequint.com/social-buzz/2016/08/04/man-shames-racist-post-calling-indians-on-emirates-ek521-rats-crash-landing-facebook[/url]
[url]https://www.quora.com/What-is-it-like-to-be-a-non-white-or-non-Arab-white-collar-expat-worker-in-Dubai[/url]
[url]https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=AhefnfGOywi3jmvmLlaDgPQjzKIX;_ylv=3?qid=20070621023625AAE7Yjg[/url]
[url]https://www.justlanded.com/deutsch/Dubai/Foren/Kultur/Racism-in-dubai/Pakistani-who-is-sick-of-racist-arabs[/url]
a lot of the various races are also isolated and segregated from one another, with south asians typically getting the worst treatment
[quote]'virtually all water is generated by desalination' no shit sherlock they live in the fucking desert, they arent going to get it by rain water or a lake, there are water reserves, very few however.
'overworked sewer network' i guess the US is the worst tourist destination ever, everyone pack your bags:[/quote]
except desalinating water is extremely expensive and in a city like dubai they brazenly waste it on golf courses and well-watered parks because they are heavily subsidised. it's incredibly unsustainable, especially in a city that's grown as large and as rapidly as dubai
[quote]slave labour: they are made aware that there passport is going to get consficated prior to arrival if they are doing this work, and it depends on the company, it isnt DUBAI LAW like you think it is. the payments not arriving is a problem, but if workers protest which sometimes they do, usually the ministry of labor will raise a eyebrow and ask them to pay to avoid a pr disaster[/quote]
why is the passport taken in the first place?
[quote]largely rely on western expats: dubai does rely on tourism, but the rest of the arab states? not really. also, i highly doubt people who live in dubai are social outcasts, they make a lot more money due to not many people wanting to travel overseas, and hey: some people want money.[/QUOTE]
places like saudi arabia depend heavily on oil money, which is limited and diminishing. dubai is slightly better managed and insulated, but were her neighbours to go down it wouldn't take long for dubai to fall to pieces either.
saudi arabia is a badly managed kleptocratic oil state run by inbred aristocrats who are given subsidies by the state to stop them stirring up trouble. so far it's worked to a degree but come economic turmoil and it quickly becomes apparent that there's actually no facet of the economy which is independently strong enough to support itself with the possible exception of tourism.
[QUOTE=paul simon;50900208]To sum it up:
He's under the impression that the concept renderings for ONE of the proposed concepts is THE final design, even though there's not one but SEVERAL designs being considered. (see: hyperloop design competition)
He also for some reason has made up the idea that the turbine drives the thing, which really just shows that he's barely skimmed through information about the subject - The turbine is for removing air buildup and some other functions, but not propulsion. Propulsion is managed by linear electric motors.[/QUOTE]I get the feeling like I'm not missing anything, sounds like half-assed clickbait crap. I'm not sure where he would be getting the turbine idea from since linear motors are one of the things that make me question it's feasibility over long distance since it adds a crazy maintenance factor to something that will already be ridiculously maintenance-intensive.
[QUOTE=wewt!;50900501]Someone having a boring voice doesn't make an argument false.[/QUOTE]Someone having a boring voice, to the point where it's a chore to listen, makes their argument unheard because I have [I]so many more better things to do[/I] than listen to a turtle tell me about the Hyperloop of all things.
[QUOTE=JumpinJackFlash;50911196]I get the feeling like I'm not missing anything, sounds like half-assed clickbait crap. I'm not sure where he would be getting the turbine idea from since linear motors are one of the things that make me question it's feasibility over long distance since it adds a crazy maintenance factor to something that will already be ridiculously maintenance-intensive.
Someone having a boring voice, to the point where it's a chore to listen, makes their argument unheard because I have [I]so many more better things to do[/I] than listen to a turtle tell me about the Hyperloop of all things.[/QUOTE]
It's really not, Thunderf00t puts a lot of effort into his content, he just is from the old days of the internet and as many technical persons has a poor taste in presentation. If he is definitely proven wrong about the Hyperloop, I believe he will come to admit it.
[QUOTE=Sableye;50901379]its just some kind of large infastructure pipe when you come down to it, sure its larger than usual but nothing obscenely large that hasnt been built manufactured before, the trains themselves were going to be electricly driven, the turbine would just pass air through the car.
idk if dubi is really using it to its full advantage because they have the land to just build a more practical rail system but its at least being built
[editline]17th August 2016[/editline]
a lot of these issues will have been revised and dealt with before its built, this isnt some billion dollar boondoggle this has teams of engineers behind it, expansion will be dealt with as well as propulsion as this gets revised. the original document was all rough theoretical calculations[/QUOTE]
There's a lot more to it than a simple infrastructure pipe, it needs to maintain a very low pressure enviroment over a looooong distance. If that wasn't enough, it needs to maintain it despite the incredible amount of warping under the heat of the sun and the various temperatures of the seasons. I have yet to see a single engineering solution for this presented that would make the hyperloop worth it. Except maybe putting it underground, which for some reason is not happening.
I'm willing to bet the first versions won't be as strong of a vacuum as stated in the paper.
[QUOTE=OvB;50915414]I'm willing to bet the first versions won't be as strong of a vacuum as stated in the paper.[/QUOTE]
Well the pressure on the paper was decided by looking at commercial pumps and figuring out what regular commercial pumps available at the time could maintain the pressure at easily enough with a few small leaks. The pressure can change a bit, whoever designs the first one will find the right balance.
[QUOTE=Morgen;50915444]Well the pressure on the paper was decided by looking at commercial pumps and figuring out what regular commercial pumps available at the time could maintain the pressure at easily enough with a few small leaks. The pressure can change a bit, whoever designs the first one will find the right balance.[/QUOTE]
The pressure is also important to keep the speed realistic. But to safely encase such a tube under that pressure would require at least 2 inches thick aluminium tubing. Accourding to my note calculation Thats more armour a bradley apc has.
First seeing, then believing imo.
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