Netanyahu is coming to speak to Congress without Obama's approval
96 replies, posted
[QUOTE=archangel125;47109273]This argument's over. I wouldn't piss down your throat to save you if your lungs were on fire, you racist slime.[/QUOTE]
I'm not racist, I have nothing against Muslims at all. I believe in freedom of religion and have never argued for committing genocide.
[QUOTE=Saigon;47109303]I'm not racist, I have nothing against Muslims at all. I believe in freedom of religion [B]and have never argued for committing genocide.[/B][/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Saigon;47109186]I would instead propose cleansing the barbaric and anti-Western elements of Gaza (and possibly the West Bank)[/QUOTE]
Yeah you did.
[QUOTE=Smallheart;47109316]Yeah you did.[/QUOTE]
Notice the key word: "elements of"
I never said I wanted to murder all Palestinians. I never even used terminology along the lines of "murder." There are more ways to eliminate a population in an area than by killing them.
[QUOTE=Saigon;47109330]Notice the key word: "elements of"
I never said I wanted to murder all Palestinians. I never even used terminology along the lines of "murder." [B]There are more ways to eliminate a population in an area than by killing them.[/B][/QUOTE]
Exactly. Like destroying their homes and businesses, stealing their property, killing those that resist, forcing them into slums, and shipping them off to camps, eh?
[QUOTE=Saigon;47109330]Notice the key word: "elements of"
I never said I wanted to murder all Palestinians. I never even used terminology along the lines of "murder." There are more ways to eliminate a population in an area than by killing them.[/QUOTE]
You are completely fucking deluded and I'm done trying to make you see that.
[QUOTE=Smallheart;47109295]So should we start "cleansing" other races based on their alignment or lack thereof with the west? Where is the line in your scenario here?[/QUOTE]
That's really an inherent problem that Western states often face. How do you tell the "good guys" from the bad? The United States faced the same problem in Vietnam and face it today in Afghanistan and Iraq. When you have extremist elements living among the civilian population, it is incredibly difficult to determine one from the other.
You're absolutely right, this is a serious problem with cleansing the Palestinian territories of radical elements. Israel isn't killing anyone though, they're slowly changing the demographics of the area instead. There is no easy solution to the Palestinian question.
Again, I'm not really in favor of the settlements program as things stand. I think the settlements in the West Bank are provoking moderate Palestinians and hurting peace talks. With that being said, I know the violence wouldn't stop, even if Israel stopped building settlements.
This guy's serious, holy shit :v:
Snip
[QUOTE=Saigon;47109186]What do you propose, given that Palestinians have proven themselves to be barbaric savages who are stuck in the 14th century? These people are too uneducated and too indoctrinated to be integrated into society. Any attempt to develop or civilize them results in them blowing up schools and hospitals.
I wouldn't propose an ethnic cleansing though, as there are some pro-Western Palestinians and they should be allowed to exist. I would instead propose cleansing the barbaric and anti-Western elements of Gaza (and possibly the West Bank), which just happens to be a large portion of the population.[/QUOTE]
"I don't want a full on ethnic cleansing. Just [I]some[/I] cleansing. Nothing wrong with just a [I]little bit[/I] of cleansing, right?"
[QUOTE=Saigon;47109330]Notice the key word: "elements of"
I never said I wanted to murder all Palestinians. I never even used terminology along the lines of "murder." There are more ways to eliminate a population in an area than by killing them.[/QUOTE]
That's still genocide though.
[quote]Raphael Lemkin, in his work Axis Rule in Occupied Europe (1944), coined the term "genocide" by combining Greek genos (γένος), "race, people" and Latin cīdere "to kill".[1]
Lemkin defined genocide as follows:
Generally speaking, genocide does not necessarily mean the immediate destruction of a nation, except when accomplished by mass killings of all members of a nation. It is intended rather to signify a coordinated plan of different actions aiming at the destruction of essential foundations of the life of national groups, with the aim of annihilating the groups themselves. The objectives of such a plan would be the disintegration of the political and social institutions, of culture, language, national feelings, religion, and the economic existence of national groups, and the destruction of the personal security, liberty, health, dignity, and even the lives of the individuals belonging to such groups.[/quote]
Yeah, Hamas is full of shit, and all they want is the destruction of Israel, but maybe the Palestinians wouldn't elect them if Israel weren't bulldozing their homes, burning their crops, bombing hospitals and schools, so on and so forth.
[QUOTE=archangel125;47109337]Exactly. Like destroying their homes and businesses, stealing their property, killing those that resist, forcing them into slums, and shipping them off to camps, eh?[/QUOTE]
See my above post about what I think of the settlements.
[QUOTE=Saigon;47109373]Israel isn't killing anyone though[/QUOTE]
[url=http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/03/israel-air-strike-un-school-gaza-rafah]false[/url]
Dammit, my merge.
Maybe the reason the UN doesn't like Israel is because [I]they're bombing UN facilities[/I]?
That's like going up to someone who was punched in the face and saying "Woah, calm down. No reason to be so bigoted against this guy."
[QUOTE=Saigon;47109373]That's really an inherent problem that Western states often face. How do you tell the "good guys" from the bad? The United States faced the same problem in Vietnam and face it today in Afghanistan and Iraq. When you have extremist elements living among the civilian population, it is incredibly difficult to determine one from the other.
You're absolutely right, this is a serious problem with cleansing the Palestinian territories of radical elements. Israel isn't killing anyone though, they're slowly changing the demographics of the area instead. There is no easy solution to the Palestinian question.
Again, I'm not really in favor of the settlements program as things stand. I think the settlements in the West Bank are provoking moderate Palestinians and hurting peace talks. With that being said, I know the violence wouldn't stop, even if Israel stopped building settlements.[/QUOTE]
[I]WOW [/I]I was not engaging in a discussion of where your little genocidal proposition could go or be carried on after Gaza, I was trying to help you see how fucking disgusting the logic behind it is. Clearly it went way over your head because you're actually crazy enough to miss the point that [B]cleansing a large part of any population due to their non-alignment with western culture is inherently morally wrong.[/B]
[I]Now I'm done.[/I]
[QUOTE=LoganIsAwesome;47109389]Saigon, how do you support a country that targets civilian hospitals, homes and schools?
Israel has committed more war-crimes trying to defeat Hamas than Hamas trying to attack Israel.[/QUOTE]
Israel doesn't target hospitals, schools, homes, etc.
They don't go "I wonder which school we should blow up today? What do you think, Bibi?" They destroy targets which Hamas have overrun and are using as bases. Whenever they have to level an area to defeat Hamas, they usually warn the civilian population first and let them evacuate the area. The IDF's job is to protect Israeli civilians and Israeli interests, all other priorities are secondary. They try to minimize civilian casualties whenever possible, but there will always be civilian casualties in war.
[QUOTE=Srillo;47108813]This whole fiasco is sickening. A Republican hack, Ron Dermer, who is the Israeli Ambassador to the US, organized this in secret with the Republican House Speaker John Boehner to accomplish seemingly two things:
1) Blow up the Iran negotiations
2) Humiliate the President
To be clear they meaning the fucking Israeli Ambassador to the US and John Boner never informed the White House, or the State Department about this until it became public knowledge. That's a pretty big fucking deal to organize a clandestine speech between the House Leader and a foreign leader to [B]undermine US foreign policy to score political points[/B].
The Democrats need to either publicly boycott this, or walkout - this sort of thing is disturbing and shouldn't be tolerated. And Ron Dermer should be labeled persona non grata.[/QUOTE]
i think this post is more important than arguing with a delusional israel cheerleader
like holy shit the GOP is ridiculous
[QUOTE=Smallheart;47109405][I]WOW [/I]I was not engaging in a discussion of where your little genocidal proposition could go or be carried on after Gaza, I was trying to help you see how fucking disgusting the logic behind it is. Clearly it went way over your head because you're actually crazy enough to miss the point that [B]cleansing a large part of any population due to their non-alignment with western culture is inherently morally wrong.[/B]
[I]Now I'm done.[/I][/QUOTE]
I don't understand how it is wrong. I'm not crazy or a sociopath, I just don't see how it is wrong. If these people are anti-Western and are fundamentally opposed to everything we stand for, then how is it wrong? Where do you draw the line? Are airstrikes against ISIS wrong? Was defeating Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan wrong?
[QUOTE=Saigon;47109186]What do you propose, given that Palestinians have proven themselves to be barbaric savages who are stuck in the 14th century? These people are too uneducated and too indoctrinated to be integrated into society. Any attempt to develop or civilize them results in them blowing up schools and hospitals. [/QUOTE]
When they're not in refugee camps or living under occupation they're actually pretty successful, Palestinians are doing very well in South America.
[QUOTE=Saigon;47109417]Israel doesn't target hospitals, schools, homes, etc.
[/QUOTE]
They have a history of doing that though.
[QUOTE=Saigon;47109417]Israel doesn't target hospitals, schools, homes, etc.
They don't go "I wonder which school we should blow up today? What do you think, Bibi?" They destroy targets which Hamas have overrun and are using as bases. Whenever they have to level an area to defeat Hamas, they usually warn the civilian population first and let them evacuate the area. The IDF's job is to protect Israeli civilians and Israeli interests, all other priorities are secondary. They try to minimize civilian casualties whenever possible, but there will always be civilian casualties in war.[/QUOTE]
[url]http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2014/07/22/in-the-fight-between-israel-and-hamas-gazas-hospitals-are-in-the-middle/[/url]
[url]http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2014/08/israeli-bombardment-claims-lives-gaza-20148372122193560.html[/url]
[url]http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jan/28/israel-policy-targeting-gaza-homes-human-rights[/url]
You're wrong.
just playing devil's advocate here, but I think that Israel is an illegal state and that the Israelis need to return to Europe and the US and return the land to the Palestinians.
Is that okay by your book? I mean it's not a cleansing, just "changing the demographics". And if they need to use the military or force and coercion then okay. And if the Israelis resist then it's okay to bomb them and kill them, right?
Is that cool with you?
[QUOTE=Fangz;47109454]They have a history of doing that though.[/QUOTE]
I wouldn't waste your breath on this guy any more. He'll ask for proof, then dismiss the sources as being 'anti-Israel'.
[QUOTE=Saigon;47109373] Israel isn't killing anyone though, they're slowly changing the demographics of the area instead. [/QUOTE]
So what about those UN schools? Or basically the majority of the entire conflict last year?
[QUOTE=Saigon;47109373] Again, I'm not really in favor of the settlements program as things stand. I think the settlements in the West Bank are provoking moderate Palestinians and hurting peace talks. With that being said, I know the violence wouldn't stop, even if Israel stopped building settlements.[/QUOTE]
While I agree with the first part of this quote that settlements cause tension, stopping the construction of them might make people less likely to assist or join terrorist groups
[QUOTE=Lamar;47109451]When they're not in refugee camps or living under occupation they're actually pretty successful, Palestinians are doing very well in South America.[/QUOTE]
They're not unsuccessful because of their race or religious beliefs, they are unsuccessful because they live in a war-ravaged third-world theocracy. It's difficult to be successful when you have groups killing women for wanting an education and using schools as rocket sites.
Holy shit, I don't think I've ever seen anyone so deluded in a sensationalist headlines thread before.
And that's saying something.
[QUOTE=Saigon;47109471]They're not unsuccessful because of their race or religious beliefs, they are unsuccessful because they live in a war-ravaged third-world theocracy. It's difficult to be successful when you have groups killing women for wanting an education and using schools as rocket sites.[/QUOTE]
It's kind of hard to be successful when your nation is constantly being oppressed by a greater military power and your people denied the same comforts and imports of any other nation, as your citizens' futures having been plucked from them for the benefit of an invasive people.
You're blaming Palestine's failures on Hamas and Islamists. Islamists and Hamas came about [i]because[/i] of the failures of Palestine, which were the result of [i]their people being forcibly attacked, resettled, and undermined by a UN-backed, US-backed, imperialist European nation.[/i]
[QUOTE=oceansbloo;47109464]So what about those UN schools? Or basically the majority of the entire conflict last year?[/QUOTE]
Hamas using schools like these as shelters. If Israeli intelligence believes a school or hospital is being used as a staging ground to launch rockets into Israel, then they will authorize an airstrike. The Israeli defense and intelligence services exist to protect Israeli civilians, therefore they will do everything they can to prevent rocket strikes, tunnels, etc.
[QUOTE=oceansbloo;47109464]While I agree with the first part of this quote that settlements cause tension, stopping the construction of them might make people less likely to assist or join terrorist groups[/QUOTE]
I think it would decrease tensions, especially in the West Bank. But the West Bank at peace with Israel now to begin with. A few people in Gaza might be less inclined to join groups like Hamas if Israel stopped building settlements, but I still think a significant portion of the population would still support Hamas, regardless.
Hamas has a virtual monopoly over everything in Gaza, they control the government, the education system, the police and the media. People in Gaza are taught from early on that Israel and the West are their "enemies." If someone they know gets accidentally killed during an airstrike, then it will only serve to reinforce the beliefs that have been forced upon them, I'm not denying that.
[QUOTE=Saigon;47109508]Hamas using schools like these as shelters. If Israeli intelligence believes a school or hospital is being used as a staging ground to launch rockets into Israel, then they will authorize an airstrike. [/QUOTE]
So you are now admitting they bombed schools?
Though you said before they didn't.
[QUOTE='[Seed Eater];47109460']just playing devil's advocate here, but I think that Israel is an illegal state and that the Israelis need to return to Europe and the US and return the land to the Palestinians.
Is that okay by your book? I mean it's not a cleansing, just "changing the demographics". And if they need to use the military or force and coercion then okay. And if the Israelis resist then it's okay to bomb them and kill them, right?
Is that cool with you?[/QUOTE]
saigon pls respond to this
[QUOTE='[Seed Eater];47109481']It's kind of hard to be successful when your nation is constantly being oppressed by a greater military power and your people denied the same comforts and imports of any other nation, as your citizens' futures having been plucked from them for the benefit of an invasive people.
You're blaming Palestine's failures on Hamas and Islamists. Islamists and Hamas came about [i]because[/i] of the failures of Palestine, which were the result of [i]their people being forcibly attacked, resettled, and undermined by a UN-backed, US-backed, imperialist European nation.[/i][/QUOTE]
Hamas and Islamists absolutely are to blame for violence in Palestine. Palestinians would have had their own state in 1948, had they not attacked Israel. You can complain all you'd like about "stolen land," but unless you want to eliminate all of the Europeans in the Americas, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, etc., then you have no case.
Jews had lived peacefully under Ottoman rule for nearly a thousand years. In the 19th century, many Jews fled to the Ottoman Empire (especially modern day Israel, Jordan, Syria and Yemen) to escape persecution. This immigration was legal under Ottoman law.
After World War I, modern day Israel/Palestine was turned into a League of Nations mandate, administered by the British. By this point Jews had already made up a majority in many areas of modern day Israel and comprised a significant minority in areas that they weren't a majority.
As the Nazis came to power in Germany, even more Jews immigrated to British Mandatory Palestine. This new wave of immigration concerned the British, so they banned Jews from entering the country. Needless to say, many Jews fled to British Mandatory Palestine to escape Nazi persecution anyway. After the war, Britain found itself in a conundrum, as both Muslims and Jews in Mandatory Palestine wanted their own countries.
There was some violence against British colonial authorities, as well as between the Muslim and Jewish communities. As a result, the United Nations decided to partition their mandate into two countries; a secular state composed primarily of Jews and an Islamic state composed primarily of Muslims.
Saigon,
[QUOTE]
"just playing devil's advocate here, but I think that Israel is an illegal state and that the Israelis need to return to Europe and the US and return the land to the Palestinians.
Is that okay by your book? I mean it's not a cleansing, just "changing the demographics". And if they need to use the military or force and coercion then okay. And if the Israelis resist then it's okay to bomb them and kill them, right?
Is that cool with you?"[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE='[Seed Eater];47109460']just playing devil's advocate here, but I think that Israel is an illegal state and that the Israelis need to return to Europe and the US and return the land to the Palestinians.
Is that okay by your book? I mean it's not a cleansing, just "changing the demographics". And if they need to use the military or force and coercion then okay. And if the Israelis resist then it's okay to bomb them and kill them, right?
Is that cool with you?[/QUOTE]
Do you think white/black/Asian/Hispanic Americans should move to Europe/Africa/Asia/etc and return the land to the Native American tribes?
Should non-aboriginal Australians move back to Europe and return the land to the aboriginal tribes?
Should Germans in Saarland move back to Germany and return the land to the French?
Should Japanese living in Okinawa move back to Japan and return the land to the Ryukyuans?
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