• Obama to GOP: 'Stop just hating all the time'
    99 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Kondor;45551685]but your post clearly implies selfish self-invested things which is the exact opposite of what i'm saying[/QUOTE] I'm not quite sure how you could possibly get that out of what I wrote unless you assumed it beforehand.
if you're going down that road why make the post at all? of course obama doesn't want to pass laws he doesn't believe in.
I think a young President like Obama really helped demonstrate what 6 years in the world's most stressful job does to you. It was clear enough with Lincoln, but seeing it all in full colour just makes it even more obvious. [img]http://i.imgur.com/cqHTjTv.jpg[/img] [img]http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/01/18/article-2264316-17021E92000005DC-286_634x380.jpg[/img]
Man, Obama is starting to look like awful. I mean in appearance, stress must be getting to him.
[QUOTE=Jamsponge;45551729][img]http://i.imgur.com/cqHTjTv.jpg[/img][/QUOTE] It just struck me how similar Lincoln looks to Bill Nye. [img]http://wac.450f.edgecastcdn.net/80450F/starcrush.com/files/2013/02/Bill-Nye-Abraham-Lincoln.jpg[/img]
[QUOTE=smurfy;45551589]There are all sorts of ideas for how to fix the political system but they're never talked about seriously on a national level. Campaign finance reform pretty much has to happen eventually, the electoral college could be abolished or changed, the electoral system for Congress could be changed and there are dozens of systems that it could change to. I'm kind of more interested in the process of agreeing the reforms though. There was a constitutional convention in Ireland recently which combined politicians with randomly selected members of the public. You might think the public is too uninformed and will just shout dumb shit at each other and not get anything done but nope, [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitutional_Convention_(Ireland)#Summary]it totally worked[/url] and is bringing about some serious political changes. I think the US could really use something like that, because it seems like both Republican and Democrat voters agree that politics is fucked, they would just need to come to an agreement on how to fix it.[/QUOTE] I don't know about you, but I really don't think it could work for America. Plus you're still saying "I WANNA CHANGE THINGZ". But not really being specific to what. [editline]31st July 2014[/editline] Not trying to bash the idea that real change could happen. But I don't think alot of Americans know what exactly that change could or should be at the moment.
This wouldn't be a problem/less of one with more political parties. It always baffles me why its been 2 parties for so long.
"STOP. Hatin' is bad" - Redfoo" - Obama
[QUOTE=64fanatic;45552618]This wouldn't be a problem/less of one with more political parties. It always baffles me why its been 2 parties for so long.[/QUOTE] You're wrong. There are independent parties, it's just that those never get elected. It's always been Democrats and Republicans since the first days of America.
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyubEwigfUY[/media]
[QUOTE=smurfy;45551538]I think a lot of Americans would agree that the US desperately needs massive political reform. Ideally there should be a constitutional convention tasked with figuring out how to create a political system that won't produce deadlocked governments for half a decade at a time[/QUOTE] Yeah that's nice, except that the only way to achieve a political reform is to stage a fucking coup. [editline]31st July 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Pvt. Martin;45552684]You're wrong. There are independent parties, it's just that those never get elected. It's always been Democrats and Republicans since the first days of America.[/QUOTE] So, he's not wrong.
[QUOTE=Pvt. Martin;45552684]You're wrong. There are independent parties, it's just that those never get elected. It's always been Democrats and Republicans since the first days of America.[/QUOTE] Welcome to the two party system. Even if you want to identify with an independent party, people will try to match up your view with whatever it is similar with according to the two major parties. (Republican and Democrat)
[QUOTE=Stopper;45552760]Yeah that's nice, except that the only way to achieve a political reform is to stage a fucking coup.[/QUOTE] Aye, either it's coup and turn America into not America, or take our time and actually try to THINK of a good idea for reform, rather than basing it off other Ideologies like most do, or just stating "I WANT CHANGE".
[QUOTE=Pvt. Martin;45552808]Aye, either it's coup and turn America into not America, or take our time and actually try to THINK of a good idea for reform, rather than basing it off other Ideologies like most do, or just stating "I WANT CHANGE".[/QUOTE] America into not America? Why do you think your country is founded on some special principles that are unfathomable for other nations? If you want a reform, you WILL copy something off of someone, because that's the best damn way to do it. Find something that works, tinker with it and apply it to yourselves.
[QUOTE=Stopper;45552986]America into not America? Why do you think your country is founded on some special principles that are unfathomable for other nations? If you want a reform, you WILL copy something off of someone, because that's the best damn way to do it. Find something that works, tinker with it and apply it to yourselves.[/QUOTE] [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_exceptionalism[/url]
I kinda wish he had also called BS on the general media as well, but then again some would've definitely twisted his words and continue this fucking quagmire.
[QUOTE=code_gs;45550785]He's at least telling it how it really is, and has been one of the few presidents who just want to eliminate party conflict so shit can get done.[/QUOTE] but you NEED party conflict, or things get unbalanced. Things would be pretty wonky if the party of whoever the president was got all their shit passed with no opposition. This goes for both sides.
[QUOTE=Pvt. Martin;45552684]You're wrong. There are independent parties, it's just that those never get elected. It's always been Democrats and Republicans since the first days of America.[/QUOTE] The Whigs also had a few presidents. [editline]31st July 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Glitchman;45553381]but you NEED party conflict, or things get unbalanced. Things would be pretty wonky if the party of whoever the president was got all their shit passed with no opposition. This goes for both sides.[/QUOTE] Healthy competition and opposition is fine, but it has literally come down to personal insult and bias. From, "I don't like him just because he's a democrat!" to "Obama isn't American! His birth certificate is fake!"
[QUOTE=sgman91;45551043]When Obama says, "Let's get some work done" he really means "Let's get the work I want done."[/QUOTE] Considering Obama has shown that he is willing to compromise on basically everything I don't really think this is true. I asked this in another thread, but do you think it's okay for the House of Representatives you and I elected to focus on frivolous political stunts instead of legislating?
[QUOTE=smurfy;45551589]There are all sorts of ideas for how to fix the political system but they're never talked about seriously on a national level. Campaign finance reform pretty much has to happen eventually, the electoral college could be abolished or changed, the electoral system for Congress could be changed and there are dozens of systems that it could change to. I'm kind of more interested in the process of agreeing the reforms though. There was a constitutional convention in Ireland recently which combined politicians with randomly selected members of the public. You might think the public is too uninformed and will just shout dumb shit at each other and not get anything done but nope, [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitutional_Convention_(Ireland)#Summary]it totally worked[/url] and is bringing about some serious political changes. I think the US could really use something like that, because it seems like both Republican and Democrat voters agree that politics is fucked, they would just need to come to an agreement on how to fix it.[/QUOTE] oh god.... I would not even want the chance that someone from the deep south be picked and have any political power whatsoever.
[QUOTE=code_gs;45550785]He's at least telling it how it really is, and has been one of the few presidents who just want to eliminate party conflict so shit can get done.[/QUOTE] and that was one of the reasons he started out kinda slow imo
[QUOTE=BananaFoam;45550984]You clearly have way to much faith in the American people. The party system exists almost solely to allow groups of people to do stupid shit and still get votes essentially on name alone. Most Americans put so little effort into voting that they simply check off "republican" or "democrat" and they are done with it. Americans are too fucking lazy to actually investigate and look at candidates for their personal values and experiences, and the party system exploits this to no end. Don't put that much faith in most Americans. Think of politics as a sport, but a sport with only to teams. Most people side with the team their mom and dad did instead of personally looking for a team they like, because why even make the effort?[/QUOTE] Maybe this is the attitude of the majority of people in the US, but more and more people identify as independents as opposed to one of the two main parties and vote on short term factors. While many people are solidly going to vote one way or the other, there's that strong minority of swing voters who could go either way. So ultimately, the outcome of an election is down to short term factors. [url=http://www.cbsnews.com/news/record-number-of-americans-identify-as-independent]Check it[/url] The situation isn't as dire as you seem to think it is.
As a european america needs to reform it's to party system to something like we have in europe with many different parties of different political views? Right now it's choosing between pest or cholera
[QUOTE=Raidyr;45553556]Considering Obama has shown that he is willing to compromise on basically everything I don't really think this is true.[/QUOTE] I know people say this, but what has he really tried to compromise on? [QUOTE]I asked this in another thread, but do you think it's okay for the House of Representatives you and I elected to focus on frivolous political stunts instead of legislating?[/QUOTE] Do you think it's okay for the Democrats to try and pass stupid bills that hurt people? When you start with the assumption that the thing in question is bad, then there's no point for me to even attempt to answer. I distinctly remember saying this last time you asked the question as well.
[QUOTE=code_gs;45553469] Healthy competition and opposition is fine, but it has literally come down to personal insult and bias. From, "I don't like him just because he's a democrat!" to "Obama isn't American! His birth certificate is fake!"[/QUOTE] Those are just the things that republicans try to throw out there to get less intelligent people to dislike him. Uneducated people aren't going to be able to form opinions about Obama with facts and policies, so they say shit like that to get people riled up. Redneck right wing stereotypes are gonna flip out hearing hes not american ect. but it goes both ways. Look at the way media portrayed Romney, right down to saying his abused his dogs and shit (which he really didn't at all) which applied to uneducated hippie liberal stereotypes who care more about a dog being on the roof of a car in it's crate than foreign policy. Or just being a rich businessman is enough to get them riled up to.
[QUOTE=Glitchman;45554739]Those are just the things that republicans try to throw out there to get less intelligent people to dislike him. Uneducated people aren't going to be able to form opinions about Obama with facts and policies, so they say shit like that to get people riled up. Redneck right wing stereotypes are gonna flip out hearing hes not american ect. but it goes both ways. Look at the way media portrayed Romney, right down to saying his abused his dogs and shit (which he really didn't at all) which applied to uneducated hippie liberal stereotypes who care more about a dog being on the roof of a car in it's crate than foreign policy. Or just being a rich businessman is enough to get them riled up to.[/QUOTE] The media pisses me off so much. I consider myself to be more conservative than liberal, and yet any "news" media that is remotely conservative pisses me off. Hannity, Beck, Fox News, you name it. They're all fucking sensationalist, and it's not exclusive to conservative media, either. Sensationalism is the name of the game. It's stupid. Obama isn't a literal terrorist and a crusader aiming to dethrone good American values, and not all conservatives are bible-humping, gun-toting maniacs, either. But the low-information voters and the sensationalist media are a veritable shitstorm of bullshit that perpetrate both of these dumb and untrue stereotypes, and it's both scary and frustrating. Good on Obama for saying people are mad at him just to be mad. People put way too much onus on the president for actions that happen during their presidency. They don't have a blank check to the whole country. People think they're lazy and liars when they don't act, and they're not doing it right when they do act. I hate this country sometimes.
Both parties are only concerned with politics and the next election at this point. The first four years of a presidency are spent trying for reelection, the four years after that are spent trying to get another party member elected. No one in congress or the administration cares at this point and it's all about winning in 2016. American politics is shit. If you think Republicans are the only ones playing politics you're gravely misguided. This is the most polar government in our history. Everyone says they're willing to compromise so long as the compromise is in their favor and when it falls through they run to their respective bias media outlets and cry about how the other party is destroying the country. Throw them all out and start over. We need [I]real[/I] change.
[QUOTE=OvB;45554869]Both parties are only concerned with politics and the next election at this point. The first four years of a presidency are spent trying for reelection, the four years after that are spent trying to get another party member elected. No one in congress or the administration cares at this point and it's all about winning in 2016. American politics is shit. If you think Republicans are the only ones playing politics you're gravely misguided. This is the most polar government in our history. Everyone says they're willing to compromise so long as the compromise is in their favor and when it falls through they run to their respective bias media outlets and cry about how the other party is destroying the country. Throw them all out and start over. We need [I]real[/I] change.[/QUOTE] Actually please don't throw out the people I voted for thanks.
Isn't it someone else's fault that shit doesn't gets done? I mean sure, he's the president, but everyone cock blocks him and his stuff anyway because they hate him.
[QUOTE=sgman91;45554698]I know people say this, but what has he really tried to compromise on?[/QUOTE] Economic policy, financial policy, firearms policy, environmental policy, health policy (including the ACA). I'm strugging to think of aspects of his Presidency that weren't matched with compromise. He has stated multiple times that he wants his legacy to be one of bipartisanship. I don't like it either but it's the reality. [QUOTE=sgman91;45554698]Do you think it's okay for the Democrats to try and pass stupid bills that hurt people? When you start with the assumption that the thing in question is bad, then there's no point for me to even attempt to answer. I distinctly remember saying this last time you asked the question as well.[/QUOTE] The key difference is that Democrats passing "stupid bills that hurt people" is purely an opinion. Whether or not something is unconstitutional certainly is also an opinion but the only one that matters is the Supreme Court, which time and again has shown that Obama hasn't overstepped his bounds and anyone who looks at historical judicial precedent and Obama's actions has to realize that this latest lawsuit isn't going to work. The attitude that "Well the supreme court hasn't decided yet so any lawsuit Republicans bring is perfectly valid" might work for you, but it certainly doesn't work for people who want to see legislators, you know, legislating. Until you provide proof that Obama has overstepped the boundaries of the executive in defense of this lawsuit I'm just going to assume for the record that your answer is yes, it's perfectly okay for Republicans to waste time and taxpayer dollars on frivolous lawsuits because riling up voters and waylaying the legislative and executive processes to snub Obama's second term takes precedent over serving the countries needs as lawmakers.
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