• ‘Men’s rights’ group defends posters claiming women lie about rape
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[QUOTE=katbug;41431416]It is a picture of a [B]feminazi [/B]which I'm pretty sure you all know of. If you don't, here's a link. [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CvByTdMXlPM[/url][/QUOTE] you just said this literally and seriously. sorry dude but your argument doesn't really have any ground. you're trying to trivialize an issue in favor of you riding on some faux persecution complex
[QUOTE=sgman91;41431405]There have been plenty of studies that showed women being more likely to take time off work in order to care for children, being less likely to work more hours[/QUOTE] because there is a prevalent notion in society that it should be the women who look after children, which is a sexist one [QUOTE=sgman91;41431405]and being less forceful in asking for raises.[/QUOTE] "That popular refrain that women don't know how to ask for a raise? That's bunk, too, the researchers concluded. Nearly a third of women -- and 29 percent of men -- have asked for raises, and even more female executives have done the same." -[url]http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2013/05/the-biggest-myth-about-the-gender-wage-gap/276367/[/url]
[QUOTE=katbug;41431439]You said provide an example. Are you not even reading your own posts[/QUOTE] Are you? "like actually substantiate it."
[QUOTE=katbug;41431439]Men are statistically more ambitious and therefore more likely to get a higher paying job.[/QUOTE] gee i wonder why that is??
[QUOTE=Ownederd;41431454]you just said this literally and seriously. sorry dude but your argument doesn't really have any ground. you're trying to trivialize an issue in favor of you riding on some faux persecution complex[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=NoDachi;41431302]Can you give me an example of a extremist [b]feminazi[/b] please like actually substantiate it.[/QUOTE] Please look at everything posted before saying anything. [editline]12th July 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=NoDachi;41431462]Are you? "like actually substantiate it."[/QUOTE] The furthest I am able to substantiate is showing you an example, as I do not know the person.
[QUOTE=katbug;41431439]Men are statistically more ambitious and therefore more likely to get a higher paying job. It's all in the article. Yes, women on average do get payed less. But it's not because the employers are paying them less, it's because they're less ambitions and less likely to ask for raises. "So, women aren't starting off behind their male counterparts, so much as they're choosing different jobs and losing ground later in their careers."[/QUOTE] Same degrees. Same jobs. But, for women, still not the same pay [url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-21698522[/url] [url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-14721839[/url] [url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11511714[/url] [url]http://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/graduate-pay-gap-same-degrees-same-jobs-but-for-women-still-not-the-same-pay-8523471.html[/url]
[QUOTE=katbug;41431468]Please look at everything posted before saying anything.[/QUOTE] ok. i'm still waiting for you to address me calling you out for thinking you're actually being put down by some small group of people
[QUOTE=katbug;41431468]The furthest I am able to substantiate is showing you an example[/QUOTE] Then how can you even form an argument lol
[QUOTE=Ownederd;41431501]ok. i'm still waiting for you to address me calling you out for thinking you're actually being put down by some small group of people[/QUOTE] When did I ever claim this.
[QUOTE=katbug;41431508]When did I ever claim this.[/QUOTE] because you're arguing like it's actually a thing
[QUOTE=Ownederd;41431519]because you're arguing like it's actually a thing[/QUOTE] He never claimed they were putting him down though.
[QUOTE=Ownederd;41431519]because you're arguing like it's actually a thing[/QUOTE] "omg someone said that there are some women who hate men who say they are feminists, he must think that men being discriminated simply for being men is a very common thing". Is this how your thought process went?
[QUOTE=Hellduck;41431455]because there is a prevalent notion in society that it should be the women who look after children, which is a sexist one[/QUOTE] Nice job ignoring the other key point of working less hours. ([URL]http://blogs.hbr.org/cs/2013/05/why_men_work_so_many_hours.html[/URL]) Even if the fact that women are more likely to take care of children is completely attributed to sexism (which isn't at all the case) that still takes away the argument that women are paid less simply because they are women. [QUOTE]"That popular refrain that women don't know how to ask for a raise? That's bunk, too, the researchers concluded. Nearly a third of women -- and 29 percent of men -- have asked for raises, and even more female executives have done the same." -[URL]http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2013/05/the-biggest-myth-about-the-gender-wage-gap/276367/[/URL][/QUOTE] I can't find that statement anywhere in the actual study. I also can't find any methodology. Can you please give me a link? If not, the study is useless. [B]EDIT: [/B] This is also ignoring the point that the income of men and women will literally never be completely equal because no two groups are ever completely equal. For example, there is a statistical difference between tall and short people in income. "Height was found to be more important than gender in determining income (though that claim is debatable, depending on how you analyze the [URL="http://www.livescience.com/2783-reality-check-women-paid.html"]gender salary gap[/URL]) and its significance doesn't decline with age." ([URL]http://www.livescience.com/5552-taller-people-earn-money.html[/URL])
[QUOTE=Ownederd;41431519]because you're arguing like it's actually a thing[/QUOTE] I haven't said anything on that matter, all I have said so far is that a lot of the "persecution" that women face isn't real in the first world. But now that you've mentioned the "nonexistent" men's persecution, I have some statistics and information; Men are legally obligated to join the draft Men only have two domestic violence shelters in the entirety of the US. Prostate cancer has far less funding than breast cancer, even though rates are nearly identical I can't control if my child is being put up for adoption or not. It is nearly impossible for me to get custody of my child. I get longer sentences for the same crime. If I act compassionately towards a step child, I can become legally obligated to pay for aid. 80% of all youth suicides are from young men. I am 10 times more likely to become homeless than a woman. If I am raped by a woman, I will probably be told that I shouldn't whine about it/can't get raped, etc. Female-owned business get free money form the government exclusively for being run by a woman. If a woman hits me, she is brave; If I hit a woman I am a coward and a sexual assailant I am expected to pay the bill for pretty much everything Custodial mothers are 79.6% likely to get child support; only 30% of men get child support and I can cite pretty much every one of these. I think that due to how everything is set up, men and women are on fairly equal footing. I don't consider most of these to be "putting me down", it's just how things are.
[QUOTE=katbug;41430915]The 1-2% statistic is incorrect. Due to the almost impossible nature of tracking such a statistic, most of the ones you find online are incorrect. Women's rights sites say it's 2%, men's rights sites say it is 40%+. Until we find a real way to track this, all such statistics should be considered invalid.[/quote] Wrong. People who have studied these things say ~2%, while people who can't read statistics say 40%. [quote]Yeah, pretty much. If you get drunk as fuck in public and you did it to yourself, then you are fully responsible. Same thing with if you take drugs. You don't hear people saying "Ooh that poor guy who was on bath salts, silly police should've known he wasn't in the right state of mind"[/quote] You put yourself in a position where you're sleeping. Your fault. You put yourself in a position where you happened to be in a guy's bedroom. Your fault. You put yourself in a position where you went on a date with him. Your fault. [quote]What part about "getting yourself drunk" do you not understand? If you get drunk and have CONSENTUAL sex, it is still CONSENTUAL.[/quote] Except you can't have consentual sex while drunk, as you're not in the right state of mind to make decisions. All you're responsible for while drunk is what [I]you[/I] do, not what [I]other people[/I] do to you. How do you not get this? When a drunk person vandalizes property, drives a car, starts a fight, etc., the one in control of those actions is the drunk person, as they are the one driving the car or taking things or whatnot. However, when sober person has sex with a drunk person, has them sign something, takes them somewhere, etc., the one in control of those actions is the sober person, as they are fully aware of what they're doing and taking advantage of the drunk person's state. It's the difference between being out of control and doing something bad versus being out of control and someone taking control of you. [quote]"the patriarchy" does not exist.[/QUOTE] "The patriarchy" isn't some conspiracy theory of "ooh men are hiding behind closed doors and purposefully making things worse for women". [QUOTE=katbug;41431246]Cite the last example that you were put down for being a woman (not necessarily you, I don't know your gender, any women on here feel free to pitch in).[/QUOTE] Last week. Your turn.
[QUOTE=Last or First;41431699] Last week. Your turn.[/QUOTE] "last week" isn't a citation.
[QUOTE=katbug;41431742]"last week" isn't a citation.[/QUOTE] ohoho [I]now[/I] you play the citation game
[QUOTE=katbug;41431742]"last week" isn't a citation.[/QUOTE] stop being pedantic. it's the worst
[QUOTE=NoDachi;41431751]ohoho [I]now[/I] you play the citation game[/QUOTE] No serious what the fuck am I supposed to do with "last week" "ok" ? It has no substance at all.
[QUOTE=NoDachi;41431751]ohoho [I]now[/I] you play the citation game[/QUOTE] Stick to the fedora "counter-argument" it works better for you.
[QUOTE=Ownederd;41431770]stop being pedantic. it's the worst[/QUOTE] If they just fucking said what happened I wouldn't have said that.
[QUOTE=katbug;41431777]If they just fucking said what happened I wouldn't have said that.[/QUOTE] if you knew more about the issue, you wouldn't have to go far to guess why
[QUOTE=katbug;41431681]I haven't said anything on that matter, all I have said so far is that a lot of the "persecution" that women face isn't real in the first world. But now that you've mentioned the "nonexistent" men's persecution, I have some statistics and information; Men are legally obligated to join the draft - [I]Because "women aren't able to, they're too fragile, they'd be too busy doing their nails, they'd distract our men"[/I] Men only have two domestic violence shelters in the entirety of the US. - [I]Domestic violence against men gets much less attention because "men are strong, they can't be physically abused by women! And women are too weak to hit anyone hard enough to hurt."[/I] Prostate cancer has far less funding than breast cancer, even though rates are nearly identical I can't control if my child is being put up for adoption or not. - [I]Because "children are a woman's job, men shouldn't be doing womanly things."[/I] It is nearly impossible for me to get custody of my child. - [I]ditto[/I] I get longer sentences for the same crime. - [I]Again, because "women are too fragile and innocent and weak to do anything!"[/I] If I act compassionately towards a step child, I can become legally obligated to pay for aid. - [I]Wait, what are you saying here?[/I] 80% of all youth suicides are from young men. - [I]Because "emotions are for women! Men don't need help, if you need help you're girly and weak."[/I] I am 10 times more likely to become homeless than a woman. - [I]ditto[/I] If I am raped by a woman, I will probably be told that I shouldn't whine about it/can't get raped, etc. - [I]Same "men are strong and emotionless, women are weak and too emotional" bullshit.[/I] Female-owned business get free money form the government exclusively for being run by a woman. If a woman hits me, she is brave; If I hit a woman I am a coward and a sexual assailant - [I]Men strong, women weak. Also, if a women hits you, she's 'trying to be manly', which is 'good'.[/I] I am expected to pay the bill for pretty much everything - [I]"Because women don't work, only men work! Women stay at home with the kids." Also... does this one actually really happen that often?[/I] Custodial mothers are 79.6% likely to get child support; only 30% of men get child support - [I]Because kids are for women.[/I] and I can cite pretty much every one of these. I think that due to how everything is set up, men and women are on fairly equal footing.[/QUOTE] A lot of problems that men have is due to people seeing being 'feminine' as bad and being 'masculine' as good. Being feminine is 'only for women', and even then it's mostly just reducing them to a sex object. Just because society worships masculinity doesn't mean that actual men won't have any problems.
[QUOTE=Last or First;41431898]A lot of problems that men have is due to people seeing being 'feminine' as bad and being 'masculine' as good. Being feminine is 'only for women', and even then it's mostly just reducing them to a sex object. Just because society worships masculinity doesn't mean that actual men won't have any problems.[/QUOTE] Society worships BOTH genders, the extremes of stereotypes are almost always looked up to. And a problem is a problem. It is stated that the expectancy of a woman being a housewife is bad. If that is true, then a man expected to be manly is also unfair. How exactly is this a counterpoint to my argument?
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;41431392]This is the definition I'm finding everywhere. But I guess using it is painfully ignorant. So what's racism then?[/QUOTE] oh no, the dictionary definition! the best argument i've ever seen. the dictionary is always right, all hail the dictionary.
[QUOTE=sp00ks;41431935]oh no, the dictionary definition! the best argument i've ever seen. the dictionary is always right, all hail the dictionary.[/QUOTE] What do you think dictionaries are used for? It literally defines the language we use. It's the most simple and easy "correct" source to use. [editline]12th July 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Ownederd;41431790]if you knew more about the issue, you wouldn't have to go far to guess why[/QUOTE] I'm also still waiting for the example that I apparently should already know about.
[QUOTE=sp00ks;41431935]oh no, the dictionary definition! the best argument i've ever seen. the dictionary is always right, all hail the dictionary.[/QUOTE] The key is to have a very specific and known definition. Dictionary definitions are usually the easiest to use for something like an internet discussion because they are already commonly accepted. Any discussion at all is almost impossible without an agreed upon definition of key terms.
[QUOTE=Ownederd;41431790]if you knew more about the issue, you wouldn't have to go far to guess why[/QUOTE] Also, please stop with your ad-hominem, poorly constructed rebuttals that totally dodge the substance of a point.
[QUOTE=katbug;41432050]What do you think dictionaries are used for? [B]It literally defines the language we use.[/B] It's the most simple and easy "correct" source to use. [/QUOTE] no it doesn't. they are defined by the language we use.
[QUOTE=katbug;41431681]Men are legally obligated to join the draft[/QUOTE] fyi the draft pretty much isn't a thing in most Western countries, and when it is it's pretty much male-exclusive because women are too obsessed with makeup to kill a man, not because women are delicate flowers in need of protection [QUOTE=katbug;41431681]Men only have two domestic violence shelters in the entirety of the US.[/QUOTE] this is a problem because men are supposed to be strong, independent stoic types who don't let that get to them, and women are supposed to be the opposite. it's entirely due to gender roles that this issue exists, not because the feminazis are taking away your rights or whatever. [QUOTE=katbug;41431681]Prostate cancer has far less funding than breast cancer, even though rates are nearly identical[/QUOTE] as far as i know this is true, but i'm not too educated on this subject so someone else might want to look into it. [QUOTE=katbug;41431681]I can't control if my child is being put up for adoption or not. It is nearly impossible for me to get custody of my child.[/QUOTE] again i think this might be true, but i'm still not too educated here. [QUOTE=katbug;41431681]I get longer sentences for the same crime.[/QUOTE] this is actually true, however it's hardly like feminism is responsible for this. the American justice system as a whole is a complete shambles - i would more than happily vote for reforms on this issue. [QUOTE=katbug;41431681]If I act compassionately towards a step child, I can become legally obligated to pay for aid.[/QUOTE] once again i don't know much about childcare so i'll leave this to someone else [QUOTE=katbug;41431681]80% of all youth suicides are from young men.[/QUOTE] could this not be explained by the aforementioned fact that men are expected to be far more strong and independent than women? these kinds of gender roles are something feminism seeks to remedy, not strengthen. [QUOTE=katbug;41431681]I am 10 times more likely to become homeless than a woman.[/QUOTE] statistics please. i don't necessarily doubt this but i'd still like to see them [QUOTE=katbug;41431681]If I am raped by a woman, I will probably be told that I shouldn't whine about it/can't get raped, etc.[/QUOTE] again, those same gender roles sprout up. you're a man, you're expected by other men to be able to take it. that's their fault, not the feminazis or whatever. [QUOTE=katbug;41431681]Female-owned business get free money form the government exclusively for being run by a woman.[/QUOTE] [URL="http://www.infoplease.com/spot/womenceo1.html"]female executives and business owners are extremely rare[/URL], something not shared by their male counterparts. the extra money is simply another form of affirmative action, one meant to encourage the equality you seem to love so much. [QUOTE=katbug;41431681]If a woman hits me, she is brave; If I hit a woman I am a coward and a sexual assailant[/QUOTE] well that would obviously depend on the circumstances of the fight. if some woman just randomly hits you as you're walking down the street for no apparent reason then of course that's out of line. [QUOTE=katbug;41431681]I am expected to pay the bill for pretty much everything[/QUOTE] same gender roles. you're the breadwinner because that's what a man is meant to be, if you aren't you're viewed as a failure by other men. [QUOTE=katbug;41431681]Custodial mothers are 79.6% likely to get child support; only 30% of men get child support[/QUOTE] i once again differ to more educated people on this subject
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